New member! New ride! But..... :(
12-02-12, 10:48 AM
#52
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Why do some people think that the BBB has some sort of consumer protection / legal mandate? They are about as useful in pursuing your rights as Yelp. Trade fraud falls under the Federal Trade Commission although I doubt that the FTC will bother with this.
The bottom line here is that you are not happy with your purchase and your LBS should make it right until you are satisfied. I myself will tell them I want ANOTHER bike NIB period.
Don'r forget the power of the internet. If you are truly forthcoming with the truth you can always OUT the shop here.
The bottom line here is that you are not happy with your purchase and your LBS should make it right until you are satisfied. I myself will tell them I want ANOTHER bike NIB period.
Don'r forget the power of the internet. If you are truly forthcoming with the truth you can always OUT the shop here.
12-02-12, 11:03 AM
#53
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I wouldn't even give that LBS a second chance. Their intentions were corrupt to begin with by selling the OP this so called "new" bike; only to be followed with excuses as the damage being labeled as "cosmetic" and with chainrings that look as if they've been used for more than 2k miles. I'd ask for a full refund and report the LBS to Cervelo.
12-02-12, 11:07 AM
#54
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Bike shop scam alert. Take it back, tell them to have a new one in your hands in a week, and make it clear that either that or a refund are their options, and that you are confident small claims court will see it your way. If you put it on a credit card, feeze the charge if they don't reverse it or replace the charge immediately.
They effing knew that bike should never have been sold that way. That is farked.
They effing knew that bike should never have been sold that way. That is farked.
I like this approach too!
Last edited by SlimRider; 12-02-12 at 11:17 AM.
12-02-12, 11:15 AM
#55
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Why do some people think that the BBB has some sort of consumer protection / legal mandate? They are about as useful in pursuing your rights as Yelp. Trade fraud falls under the Federal Trade Commission although I doubt that the FTC will bother with this.
The bottom line here is that you are not happy with your purchase and your LBS should make it right until you are satisfied. I myself will tell them I want ANOTHER bike NIB period.
Don'r forget the power of the internet. If you are truly forthcoming with the truth you can always OUT the shop here.
The bottom line here is that you are not happy with your purchase and your LBS should make it right until you are satisfied. I myself will tell them I want ANOTHER bike NIB period.
Don'r forget the power of the internet. If you are truly forthcoming with the truth you can always OUT the shop here.
However, the BBB does help to settle thousands of these civil cases each year. To that extent, the court still respects the BBB as an ally. If you demonstrate that the BBB tried to intercede on your behalf, without any cooperation from the bike shop, then that swings the court towards your favor. In many cases, it turns the plaintiff's case into more of a "slam dunk" win, that takes less time to decide.
However, I do agree that the BBB is no longer due the high level of respect in once earned many years ago!
Corruption is indeed, a hard pill for the public to swallow!
Last edited by SlimRider; 12-02-12 at 11:27 AM.
12-02-12, 11:34 AM
#56
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litigious.
The guy hasn't even been back to the shop, and you're already trying to sue someone.
Christ's sake.
The guy hasn't even been back to the shop, and you're already trying to sue someone.
Christ's sake.
12-02-12, 12:00 PM
#57
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If it's a repuatable shop they should replace at mimimum the frame.
I had similiar issues at the end of 2010 when I bought a brand new Scott CR1. Looked it over at the shop, took if for a short spin from the shop after saddle adjustment etc. Everything seemed fine.
When I was removing the bike from my truck when I got home I noticed several chips in the head tube..Paint only. I took photos and emailed them to the shop after speaking with them over the phone. This shop is a 2 hr drive for me.
Bottom line is they are an awesome shop. After emailling the pics, they called me and told me to ride the current bike untill they had a new one in. At that time, they swapped groupset and tires that I had continued to ride onto the new frame. They apologized for letting it go out that way and we both understood that these things happen. I would buy from them again in a heartbeat.
Hope you have the same response from your lbs.
I had similiar issues at the end of 2010 when I bought a brand new Scott CR1. Looked it over at the shop, took if for a short spin from the shop after saddle adjustment etc. Everything seemed fine.
When I was removing the bike from my truck when I got home I noticed several chips in the head tube..Paint only. I took photos and emailed them to the shop after speaking with them over the phone. This shop is a 2 hr drive for me.
Bottom line is they are an awesome shop. After emailling the pics, they called me and told me to ride the current bike untill they had a new one in. At that time, they swapped groupset and tires that I had continued to ride onto the new frame. They apologized for letting it go out that way and we both understood that these things happen. I would buy from them again in a heartbeat.
Hope you have the same response from your lbs.
12-02-12, 12:06 PM
#58
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Not trying to sue, just getting ready in case that's the necessary route for defense...
You've just always got to be prepared!
**************
In the event that the LBS refuses to cooperate and becomes disrespectful. You will then have all of your ducks in order, and be posed to strike!
PS.
In fact, I'm even suggesting use of the BBB, just in case the LBS doesn't want to cooperate!
Last edited by SlimRider; 12-02-12 at 03:43 PM.
12-02-12, 02:30 PM
#60
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I would have had them pull that off check the frame for damage and repaint it and charge you nothing
if it was sold as a new bike then they owe you a refund.
if it was sold as a new bike then they owe you a refund.
12-02-12, 03:17 PM
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12-02-12, 05:00 PM
#62
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Thanks, that is what I am hoping for. Obviously, they did not inspect the bike thoroughly prior to me purchasing it, so that is something which was overlooked on their part. Giving them the benefit of the doubt at this point, and see how it pans out. I believe there's a 30 day return window for refund. That's pretty standard even for complete bike purchases, correct?
12-02-12, 05:17 PM
#64
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Thanks, that is what I am hoping for. Obviously, they did not inspect the bike thoroughly prior to me purchasing it, so that is something which was overlooked on their part. Giving them the benefit of the doubt at this point, and see how it pans out. I believe there's a 30 day return window for refund. That's pretty standard even for complete bike purchases, correct?
I've never heard of such a window for cars, motorcycles, or bicycles....
12-02-12, 05:26 PM
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That's not a new bike. It was used a lot. It was most likely someone from the shop's bike for a while or a team or someone that they "sponsored".
That damage is fairly common for Cervelos. I have seen it happen a lot. It happens when the chain drops from poo FD adjustment and then chainsucks between the inner ring and the frame. It is ALWAYS because of poor fd adjustment. I know a guy who ended up threatening to sue everyone and calling cervelo so many times that he ended up getting a deal on a NOS frame. That guys is also a major d'bag with absolutely nothing better to do with his time other than spend all of his day chasing down something like this. Now Cervelo has changed hands, etc.
1. Is the damage "bad" - as in "OMFG this thing is going to explode of you touch it" bad? No. There is so much reinforcement in that area that you could paint it and forget it's there and be fine on it for as long as you own the bike. This is most likely why the shop is saying the words "cosmetic".
2. It is not "cosmetic". it has gone through the paint and into the base material of the frame. Cosmetic is a scratch.
3. That bike should have never been sold as a "new" bike.
4. There's no need to f around with the BBB, record conversations, etc.... That's the kind of advice that is given by the scum of the earth. Other people call them lawyers.
5. Be honest. Be up front. Tell the owner what you think. Tell them straight up that you're not happy, you're concerned, that's more than cosmetic damage. They are not carbon frame builders and not qualified to asses the current state of the frame. That you don't feel that the bike should have been sold to you as "new" when it was in this condition and that it's a real PITA to have to deal with any of this instead of spending your time riding you new bike like you had intended.
6. Know what will make you happy before you go in. right now it doesn't seem like you really know. It seems like you really want to know it's safe and that after that the rest is details. Be up front with them and tell them that them telling you that it's cosmetic doesn't satisfy your feelings. Maybe a solution is to have them strip the frame and send it to Rukus, Calfee, etc and have them assess the state of the frame and/or repair and repaint it. It would only cost them a few hundred $ and that's a bargain on their end considering how much more they got in the initial sale by selling it as new.
That damage is fairly common for Cervelos. I have seen it happen a lot. It happens when the chain drops from poo FD adjustment and then chainsucks between the inner ring and the frame. It is ALWAYS because of poor fd adjustment. I know a guy who ended up threatening to sue everyone and calling cervelo so many times that he ended up getting a deal on a NOS frame. That guys is also a major d'bag with absolutely nothing better to do with his time other than spend all of his day chasing down something like this. Now Cervelo has changed hands, etc.
1. Is the damage "bad" - as in "OMFG this thing is going to explode of you touch it" bad? No. There is so much reinforcement in that area that you could paint it and forget it's there and be fine on it for as long as you own the bike. This is most likely why the shop is saying the words "cosmetic".
2. It is not "cosmetic". it has gone through the paint and into the base material of the frame. Cosmetic is a scratch.
3. That bike should have never been sold as a "new" bike.
4. There's no need to f around with the BBB, record conversations, etc.... That's the kind of advice that is given by the scum of the earth. Other people call them lawyers.
5. Be honest. Be up front. Tell the owner what you think. Tell them straight up that you're not happy, you're concerned, that's more than cosmetic damage. They are not carbon frame builders and not qualified to asses the current state of the frame. That you don't feel that the bike should have been sold to you as "new" when it was in this condition and that it's a real PITA to have to deal with any of this instead of spending your time riding you new bike like you had intended.
6. Know what will make you happy before you go in. right now it doesn't seem like you really know. It seems like you really want to know it's safe and that after that the rest is details. Be up front with them and tell them that them telling you that it's cosmetic doesn't satisfy your feelings. Maybe a solution is to have them strip the frame and send it to Rukus, Calfee, etc and have them assess the state of the frame and/or repair and repaint it. It would only cost them a few hundred $ and that's a bargain on their end considering how much more they got in the initial sale by selling it as new.
Like they said, they have no idea how that damage occurred (or knows but isn't disclosing that). When I suggested that it might have occurred on a previous test ride by someone else, the shop claims that I was probably the first one to ride it since they normally do not allow just anyone to test a bike of this level (I'm highly suspect of this one).
Agreed with all of your points here. I have been honest and up front about this situation so far and communicated my dissatisfaction to them about the bike, but haven't been as rash as some folks on here who have suggested lawsuits, BBB, etc. I do know what will make me happy (ultimately a replacement bike or a refund if that's not possible), just exercising patience and letting the shop have an opportunity to demonstrate their customer service skills. I have asked for a replacement right away, but this was the last one at the shop.
Anyway, so an update. Brought the bike back to the shop yesterday since they wanted to pull off the crank to get a closer look and inspection (but couldn't because when I brought the bike back the first time 2 days after purchasing it, there were no mechanics on duty). They reaffirmed their original claim that the damage is just a paint chip, and that they are going to take photos of it and send it to Cervelo for evaluation on Monday and see what they suggest. They wanted me to leave the bike with them (puzzled,not sure what else they were planning to do with it) and will contact me on Monday. So the bike is there with them now. I did mention that the chain rings look excessively worn, and his response was that "the paint usually comes off very soon since its anodized."
Here are the pictures I took after they took the crank off for inspection.
6. Know what will make you happy before you go in. right now it doesn't seem like you really know. It seems like you really want to know it's safe and that after that the rest is details. Be up front with them and tell them that them telling you that it's cosmetic doesn't satisfy your feelings. Maybe a solution is to have them strip the frame and send it to Rukus, Calfee, etc and have them assess the state of the frame and/or repair and repaint it. It would only cost them a few hundred $ and that's a bargain on their end considering how much more they got in the initial sale by selling it as new.
12-02-12, 05:30 PM
#66
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If it's a repuatable shop they should replace at mimimum the frame.
I had similiar issues at the end of 2010 when I bought a brand new Scott CR1. Looked it over at the shop, took if for a short spin from the shop after saddle adjustment etc. Everything seemed fine.
When I was removing the bike from my truck when I got home I noticed several chips in the head tube..Paint only. I took photos and emailed them to the shop after speaking with them over the phone. This shop is a 2 hr drive for me.
Bottom line is they are an awesome shop. After emailling the pics, they called me and told me to ride the current bike untill they had a new one in. At that time, they swapped groupset and tires that I had continued to ride onto the new frame. They apologized for letting it go out that way and we both understood that these things happen. I would buy from them again in a heartbeat.
Hope you have the same response from your lbs.
I had similiar issues at the end of 2010 when I bought a brand new Scott CR1. Looked it over at the shop, took if for a short spin from the shop after saddle adjustment etc. Everything seemed fine.
When I was removing the bike from my truck when I got home I noticed several chips in the head tube..Paint only. I took photos and emailed them to the shop after speaking with them over the phone. This shop is a 2 hr drive for me.
Bottom line is they are an awesome shop. After emailling the pics, they called me and told me to ride the current bike untill they had a new one in. At that time, they swapped groupset and tires that I had continued to ride onto the new frame. They apologized for letting it go out that way and we both understood that these things happen. I would buy from them again in a heartbeat.
Hope you have the same response from your lbs.
I am hoping that the resolution to my situation will go as smoothly as yours. So far, they have not been apologetic, problem hasn't been resolved, and one week after purchase, the bike has not been ridden (even still has demo pedals on it).
12-02-12, 05:35 PM
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You're lucky that you found a bike that fit you properly only after going to "the shop before they closed". It took me several weeks of test rides to find the right bike.
Anyway, I had an issue with my purchase and the dealer seemed to be "not so interested" in fixing it (sounds that way for you too). I called the manufacturer (Bianchi) and my area's rep called me the next day. I explained the issue to him and suprise, suprise, the dealer called me the following day all eager to solve my problem. Might be a route for you.
Anyway, I had an issue with my purchase and the dealer seemed to be "not so interested" in fixing it (sounds that way for you too). I called the manufacturer (Bianchi) and my area's rep called me the next day. I explained the issue to him and suprise, suprise, the dealer called me the following day all eager to solve my problem. Might be a route for you.
12-02-12, 05:40 PM
#68
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You're lucky that you found a bike that fit you properly only after going to "the shop before they closed". It took me several weeks of test rides to find the right bike.
Anyway, I had an issue with my purchase and the dealer seemed to be "not so interested" in fixing it (sounds that way for you too). I called the manufacturer (Bianchi) and my area's rep called me the next day. I explained the issue to him and suprise, suprise, the dealer called me the following day all eager to solve my problem. Might be a route for you.
Anyway, I had an issue with my purchase and the dealer seemed to be "not so interested" in fixing it (sounds that way for you too). I called the manufacturer (Bianchi) and my area's rep called me the next day. I explained the issue to him and suprise, suprise, the dealer called me the following day all eager to solve my problem. Might be a route for you.
Ha, I wish. It took about a year's worth of research and looking at many different bikes to finally pull the trigger.
Thanks for the suggestion on contacting the manufacturer directly. Anyone know how good the customer service department is at Cervelo? Not sure if it has improved since their acquisition...
12-02-12, 06:19 PM
#69
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What ever you do, do not take that bike back unless the situation is resolved to your satifaction. Since they told you to leave it, you are in a position to dispute the payment, if necessary, with your card company.
12-02-12, 06:34 PM
#70
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TeamS5 says:
Stating you were most likely the first one to ride this bike, sounds really suspcious, to me. If nothing else, it's a warning to quite possibly start preparing for a future lawsuit.
Yes. It is most civil and good to at first allow the bike shop the opportunity to settle this matter using their own polished customer service skills. However, if they either display no vigor in their attitude to render you 100% satifaction, or they drag their feet, then you should not be caught off guard and unprepared to take the next step. To state that the mere suggestion of a possible lawsuit, or that possibly getting the BBB involved within the milieu of this scenario, is "rash", just might be a bit too premature. Afterall, nobody is saying that you should sue immediately. However, if after the inspection, the LBS does not demonstrate any interest in cooperating with you 100%, by either offering you a complete refund, or a bicycle replacement, then a lawsuit will become inevitable. In that case, the mere discussion of the possibility of a lawsuit will seem wise, intelligent, and quite prudent. At that point, it will not seem "rash", at all.
OTOH, if the LBS is willing to cooperate after its inspection, and they do offer you a replacement bicycle, or a refund, then the whole topic about lawsuits and the BBB, will seem moot, and it would have amounted to nothing but an entertaining passtime in conversation and exchange of ideas amongst BF members.
Nothing will be gained or lost...
Like they said, they have no idea how that damage occurred (or knows but isn't disclosing that). When I suggested that it might have occurred on a previous test ride by someone else, the shop claims that I was probably the first one to ride it since they normally do not allow just anyone to test a bike of this level (I'm highly suspect of this one).
Agreed with all of your points here. I have been honest and up front about this situation so far and communicated my dissatisfaction to them about the bike, but haven't been as rash as some folks on here who have suggested lawsuits, BBB, etc. I do know what will make me happy (ultimately a replacement bike or a refund if that's not possible), just exercising patience and letting the shop have an opportunity to demonstrate their customer service skills. I have asked for a replacement right away, but this was the last one at the shop.
OTOH, if the LBS is willing to cooperate after its inspection, and they do offer you a replacement bicycle, or a refund, then the whole topic about lawsuits and the BBB, will seem moot, and it would have amounted to nothing but an entertaining passtime in conversation and exchange of ideas amongst BF members.
Nothing will be gained or lost...
Last edited by SlimRider; 12-02-12 at 06:42 PM.
12-02-12, 06:37 PM
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I would also find out the name and number to the Cervelo rep they speak to so you can do the same (just so everybody is on the same page).
12-02-12, 07:52 PM
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Ha, I wish. It took about a year's worth of research and looking at many different bikes to finally pull the trigger.
Thanks for the suggestion on contacting the manufacturer directly. Anyone know how good the customer service department is at Cervelo? Not sure if it has improved since their acquisition...
Thanks for the suggestion on contacting the manufacturer directly. Anyone know how good the customer service department is at Cervelo? Not sure if it has improved since their acquisition...
12-02-12, 09:13 PM
#74
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btw, that whole "anodized paint chips off very soon" bit is crap, anodization doesn't come off easily, that's one of the perks of anodization.
12-02-12, 09:42 PM
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Psimet2001 says:
In many cases, the use of a lawyer isn't necessary when the BBB is contacted. Usually a reasonable settlement can be reach, without the use of an actual lawyer.
Mprelaw says;
Some lawyers would prefer to take a case for profit, when it's not necessary. I put them right up there with ambulance chasers. The BBB settles thousands of cases annually, without a private attorney ever becoming involved.
The following is the usual procedure:
www.bbb.org/us/Dispute-Resolution-Services/Process/
www.newyork.bbb.org/how-to-use-small-claims-court/
There's no need to f around with the BBB, record conversations, etc.... That's the kind of advice that is given by the scum of the earth. Other people call them lawyers.
Mprelaw says;
The only kinds of lawyers who advise potential clients to do that crap are of the armchair variety.
The following is the usual procedure:
www.bbb.org/us/Dispute-Resolution-Services/Process/
www.newyork.bbb.org/how-to-use-small-claims-court/