One way to keep bike commuters safe ...
12-02-12, 04:38 PM
#26
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Don't believe using the left turn signal in the left lane on the Autobahn to indicate "Get outta my Way!"is legal either. Either I am misinformed or you.
12-02-12, 04:52 PM
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... I don't understand the logic behind it. Why would somebody ride on the wrong side of the road ?? What are they thinking ? Do they actually believe that it makes them safer ?
12-02-12, 05:03 PM
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In real life, you got 10,000 cars texting to 1 bicycle running a light and/or texting. That makes your point thin, almost invisible.
To prove my point, you can have a policemen on a busy street, ticket all cars on the cell phone, not giving bicyclist their 3 feet, right hooking or turning right in front of a bicycle taking away their rightaway, and count the ratio!! It wold be over 1000 to 1 easy.
In our lifestyle, a 1000 to 1 wouldn't even be noticed.
Again, you got everybody, and everybody's brother talking on the cell phone in cars, and most cities it is illegal, sheesh, you got the pedestrans walking across the street talking on the cell phones. IMO, your desire for safety would be better spent directing it toward where it do the most good and save lives. Directing it at bikers, IMO, you are way off base, not just a little but way off.
Just my opinion, and I think a lot of others share that same opinon too. People in cars have steel around them, people on bicycles are out in the open. If anything they need the protecting a 1000 tmes more than the cars.
To prove my point, you can have a policemen on a busy street, ticket all cars on the cell phone, not giving bicyclist their 3 feet, right hooking or turning right in front of a bicycle taking away their rightaway, and count the ratio!! It wold be over 1000 to 1 easy.
In our lifestyle, a 1000 to 1 wouldn't even be noticed.
Again, you got everybody, and everybody's brother talking on the cell phone in cars, and most cities it is illegal, sheesh, you got the pedestrans walking across the street talking on the cell phones. IMO, your desire for safety would be better spent directing it toward where it do the most good and save lives. Directing it at bikers, IMO, you are way off base, not just a little but way off.
Just my opinion, and I think a lot of others share that same opinon too. People in cars have steel around them, people on bicycles are out in the open. If anything they need the protecting a 1000 tmes more than the cars.
12-02-12, 05:07 PM
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It's a balance that's difficult to find, I agree. The thin line is between government being a servant of its people, and government being a controller of its people. The 50,000 miles of bike paths paid for with taxpayer money should indeed be maintained and regulated, but I start to get uncomfortable when that regulation looks like it may go beyond protection and into control. Freedom is priceless.
12-02-12, 05:24 PM
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Why all the anti-government crap in here? There are regions of the world with much less government if you want to live there.
12-02-12, 05:39 PM
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12-02-12, 05:59 PM
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Yeah.... no thanks, I'll keep my freedom from unreasonable detainment, questions and search.
12-02-12, 07:09 PM
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So, that means we have to stop every car that the driver is talking on the cell phone, texting, illegal lane change, speeding and countless other infractions that car drivers do everyday. That way, we can stop the cyclist and call it fair.
12-02-12, 07:28 PM
#34
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Yeah, those arseholes cyclist who never ride at night deserve very high fines for not having lights.
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12-02-12, 07:35 PM
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But my point is, you have 10000+ cars breaking the law to every 1 cyclilst!
So, that means we have to stop every car that the driver is talking on the cell phone, texting, illegal lane change, speeding and countless other infractions that car drivers do everyday. That way, we can stop the cyclist and call it fair.
So, that means we have to stop every car that the driver is talking on the cell phone, texting, illegal lane change, speeding and countless other infractions that car drivers do everyday. That way, we can stop the cyclist and call it fair.
Last edited by SlimRider; 12-02-12 at 07:42 PM.
12-02-12, 07:37 PM
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And there are also governments where citizens have the right to assemble, protest, practice civil disobediance, and run stop lights (Idaho).
12-02-12, 10:06 PM
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Yes freedom and democracy is precious ,but it's also a two edged sword. Some people don't know where to draw a line. Human beings can be evil little creatures and are notorious for taking advantage of their fellow man... the only way for democracy/freedom to function properly is to have laws, regulations, fines and punishment for those who think that they are above everybody else. Cyclist who ride on the roads need to be subject to laws and rules of the road...
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12-02-12, 10:16 PM
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Riding at night (s259)
When riding at night or in hazardous weather conditions with reduced visibility, you must display on your bicycle or yourself:
- a flashing or steady white light that is clearly visible for at least 200 metres (m) from the front of the bicycle
- a flashing or steady red light that is clearly visible for at least 200 m from the rear of the bicycle
- a red reflector that is clearly visible for at least 50 m from the rear of the bicycle when a vehicle's headlights on low beam shine on it.
Have been pulled up for not having a rear reflector once , but because it was during the day the Officer just let me know that i need to get it replaced before i ride in any of those conditions.
The Anti government strain in this post is interesting. You want them to build more bike infrastructure but not police it ?
As for the slippery sloop argument about when is enough enough, why is it that argument is pulled out when ever a government does something . "oh god the government is Doing/giving/taking/changing/cleaning stuff ... dear god they will be doing strip searches of riders soon
"
Last edited by tergal; 12-02-12 at 10:21 PM.
12-03-12, 12:39 AM
#39
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For what it's worth, in Germany we have:
12,845km of Autobahn (what Americans would call highway or interstate) ... (75392km in the US)
70,000km of maintained at categorized cycle paths (+ how ever many other that aren't listed like MTB trails and others)
so, we have a roughly 6:1 ratio of cycle paths:autobahn distance
or we have an equivalent distance of high-quality and well-maintained cycle paths to the highway/interstate system of the US (in a country 1/30 of the area) ... so I think having some regulation is a great idea
therefore the "slippery slope" argument kind of defies logic.
12-03-12, 12:52 AM
#40
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Not only do german bicycles have to be equipped with dynamo lights and can be fined in the day for not having them, I understand many current lights do not meet the new standard.
New rules for German bicycle lights in effect 29 Nov.
Headlights must achieve at least 10 Lux. Until now, headlights had to achieve 4 Lux / 7 Lux (standard incan / halogen incan).
Dynamos now have to achieve a min efficiency of 30%.
Dynamos must contain overvoltage protection (in the case of dynamo hubs, this may be external).
Anything below this standard may no longer be manufactured or imported.
I would hope they grandfather the old lights rather than making all those cyclist buy new lights or face a fine.
New rules for German bicycle lights in effect 29 Nov.
Headlights must achieve at least 10 Lux. Until now, headlights had to achieve 4 Lux / 7 Lux (standard incan / halogen incan).
Dynamos now have to achieve a min efficiency of 30%.
Dynamos must contain overvoltage protection (in the case of dynamo hubs, this may be external).
Anything below this standard may no longer be manufactured or imported.
I would hope they grandfather the old lights rather than making all those cyclist buy new lights or face a fine.
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Last edited by CB HI; 12-03-12 at 12:59 AM.
12-03-12, 01:01 AM
#41
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Not only do german bicycles have to be equipped with dynamo lights and can be fined in the day for not having them, I understand many current lights do not meet the new standard.
New rules for German bicycle lights in effect 29 Nov.
Headlights must achieve at least 10 Lux. Until now, headlights had to achieve 4 Lux / 7 Lux (standard incan / halogen incan).
Dynamos now have to achieve a min efficiency of 30%.
Dynamos must contain overvoltage protection (in the case of dynamo hubs, this may be external).
Anything below this standard may no longer be manufactured or imported.
I would hope they grandfather the old lights rather than making all those cyclist buy new lights or face a fine.
New rules for German bicycle lights in effect 29 Nov.
Headlights must achieve at least 10 Lux. Until now, headlights had to achieve 4 Lux / 7 Lux (standard incan / halogen incan).
Dynamos now have to achieve a min efficiency of 30%.
Dynamos must contain overvoltage protection (in the case of dynamo hubs, this may be external).
Anything below this standard may no longer be manufactured or imported.
I would hope they grandfather the old lights rather than making all those cyclist buy new lights or face a fine.
the rules are enforced for city bikes only (as they always weigh over 12kg). the police won't enforce it on a MTB, road/race or SS/FG bike.
and, yes all city bikes, by law, must have a front wheel dynamo (even during the day.)
Last edited by acidfast7; 12-03-12 at 01:08 AM. Reason: 12kg, not 11kg ... sorry
12-03-12, 01:10 AM
#42
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for those interested ... here's a loose translation into English
https://bicyclegermany.com/german_bicycle_laws.html
https://bicyclegermany.com/german_bicycle_laws.html
12-03-12, 04:07 AM
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Very interesting. My question is why do those rules apply only to city bikes ?? What happens if somebody uses a Fixie or a MTB for commuting within the city, are they exempt from the rules ? What happens if a MTB or Fixe weighs over 12 kilograms ?
12-03-12, 06:20 AM
#44
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The point is that it's important to enforce the rules of the road (you want to share it, right?) on cyclists as well as motorists.
I like the fact that tickets are being given out to people riding the wrong way in bike lanes and through red lights. It makes it safer for everyone, especially the peds who have to deal with autos and bikes.
I like the fact that tickets are being given out to people riding the wrong way in bike lanes and through red lights. It makes it safer for everyone, especially the peds who have to deal with autos and bikes.
12-03-12, 06:31 AM
#45
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what?
i almost never see anyone j-walk. and the peds are usually quite good because what Americans call a sidewalk here is usually a divided bike/ped MUP, therefore, the peds are really careful about where they stand/when they cross.
i almost never see anyone j-walk. and the peds are usually quite good because what Americans call a sidewalk here is usually a divided bike/ped MUP, therefore, the peds are really careful about where they stand/when they cross.
12-03-12, 07:35 AM
#46
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I was stopped near the University of Guelph last year when they had their safety blitz. My bike was in perfect working order, had my bell, lights etc etc. Turned into a rather pleasant conversation with a local cop. Sometimes building bridges to law enforcement is more effective than burning them.
12-03-12, 07:42 AM
#47
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That is not the case where I ride; peds, as a group, are by far the least likely to follow appropriate traffic guidelines (or common sense).
12-03-12, 07:47 AM
#48
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If a ped is hit while walking across an intersection with a red walking signal, I guarantee that the police with pull the CCTV and get a formal statement from everyone at the intersection, provide the ped with a fine (€8 first offense), then force the ped to pay for the damages to the car. Same thing when a ped gets hit with a bike. So, they tend to be very well behaved here.
I had a friend with a car here who didn't have the mandatory winter tires. He was rear ended and found 50% at fault because if he had the proper tires, he could've accelerated away from the driver who him in the rear
Peds are kept under control
12-03-12, 08:48 AM
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Surely you know that your German experience with pedestrian/cyclist/motorist/legal interactions and expectations from each other has little to no similarity to the traffic interactions that currently exist in the U.S.
12-03-12, 09:02 AM
#50
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yeah, I'm not sure why KonAaron Snake brought it up.