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Bicycle bearing grease lab test

Old 07-18-17, 02:55 AM
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Bicycle bearing grease lab test

Hi all,

In a few weeks, I'd get access to a lab testing machine of a local mechanics faculty. There's a saying that two heads are wiser than one, so I'm looking for 2nd opinions in order to make the test more realistic. Apologies in advance for my Tarzan English and probably incorrect English technical terms. All suggestions and corrections are more than welcome.

This is my first work on bike bearing lubricants:
Bicycle bearing greases - explained - Cycle Gremlin

The premise, based on years of experience, but haven't found any tests (in books or on line) to scientifically confirm it, so that's what I'm going to test:
I Bike bearings don't require special grease, since speeds and loads are relatively light - most any grease will do
II 100% grease packed bearings is the best option for bicycle, even though most other industries recommend 30% space left, since dirt and water intrusion is what destroys bike bearings

What I'll have at my disposal is a machine with controlled number of revolutions per minute and static load on the bearings. I will also be able to perform controlled impacts on the bearings (Charpy pendulum in English?). The machine has an axle, onto which a bearing can be screwed on.

My plan so far:
1. Using cartridge bearings, for easier mounting and lower price than cup and cone hubs.
2. Asuming an average wheel circumfence is 2.1 meters (26" are smaller, even with wide tyres, 28" are a bit larger, but that's about middle ground).
3. Simulating 30 km/h speed for 90% of the test, with 10% at 100 km/h. With 2.1 meter wheel circumfence, that's about 240 to 800 revolutions per minute.
4. Asuming one wheel carries 50 kg of weight. That load will be simulated, as constant, even though it's divided by two bearings, I'm planing to load just one with that full load.
5. Since rolling bearings that roll while loaded don't suffer reasonably measurable damage from road buzz, only impacts, I will disregard road buzz simulation. This will make the test less usefull for the headset bearings, but good for all the others.
6. For impacts, simulating drop off a 20cm high kerb, with 50 kg load, without any damping from rim and tyre deflection, I'd test with 5 kilopond-meter impacts after every 12 hours of testing (about 50 Joules). My estimate is that's reasonably high impact, since off road bikes have wider tyres and suspension, and riders will usually use hands and elbows to absorb the shock. While road bikes don't get those impacts often (and they still have tyres, rims and riders to dampen the impactt). 10 impacts after roughly every 12 hours of testing.
7. Asuming bearings are never submerged into water, but often sprayed with rain and dirt. A mixture of 1dl water, 1 spoon of sand and 1 spoon of soil will be poured over bearings after every 12 hours of testing.
8. Will degrease bearings in diesel, then alcohol, then add tested lubricants.
9. Will do a test with 30% less lubricant than 100% full bearings, as it is a standard in most industries and compare that with 100% grease packed bearing. See which option fares better for this purpose, since bike bearings roll rather slowly.
10. Will use a fan to simulate air cooling, if there's measurable heat build up over 50 degrees celsius. Will also use more stops for cooling down if required.
11. Wear measurement will be done by completely cleaning/degreasing a bearing and measuring it on a precise scale. Also, visual inspection for ball and race wear will be done at the end of testing.
12. I will do a first test on a 3000 km service interval. Then 5000 km. Then 8000 km. With 30 km/h estimated average speed, 5000 km will take about a week. If there's not much heat build up, I'm considering increasing the test speed to 60 km/h, and max speed to 120 km/h.


Questions:
a) What are the most common sizes of front and rear wheel cartridge bearings?
b) What is the inner diameter of the bearings, since I'd need to make mounting adaptors probably? The machine has a 16 mm wide axle, but I can make it wider/narrower using adaptors.
c) Are the estimates of loads and shocks realistic (strict) enough? Any better ideas on rain/dust/mud simulation?
d) Did I miss something?

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Old 07-18-17, 05:02 AM
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Bike bearings don't require special grease, since speeds and loads are relatively light - most any grease will do
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Old 07-18-17, 05:52 AM
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I was wondering the same

I think it's awesome that your doing this research. Im not gonna lie I did lose you on the technical stuff. But, my 1st thought was you def. need to include loose bearings with cups and cones. Vintage bikes, are out there.
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Old 07-18-17, 06:34 AM
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Where does carbon grease fit into this scheme? My bike tech used CD2 brand.
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Old 07-18-17, 07:03 AM
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Originally Posted by 1989Pre
Where does carbon grease fit into this scheme? My bike tech used CD2 brand.
What is "carbon grease"? Do you mean carbon assembly paste? That is not a lubricant.
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Old 07-18-17, 07:13 AM
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@Slaninar, what are you testing for?

Drop point and recovery? Wear prevention? Rolling efficiency/drag? Long term stability of the product?

What does "fare better" mean?
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Old 07-18-17, 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by HillRider
What is "carbon grease"? Do you mean carbon assembly paste? That is not a lubricant.
I'm not sure: I don't see it available.., I saw it back in the early 1980's. I do see an electrically-conductive carbon grease for switches, relays, etc., but I doubt that's what my tech used.
I now use a plant-based lithium complex that is N.L.G.I. #2.
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Old 07-18-17, 07:31 AM
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I'm assuming you're testing rolling resistance and lifetime?

If so you want to test a range of compounds :
No lubricant
Bacon grease/lard (the any grease option)
Light machine oil
Lithium grease
Shimano Dura Ace
Phil Wood or Park
Automotive wheel bearing
Marine grade trailer grease

The rolling resistance is perhaps the most interesting question, especially if there's a significant difference between a bicycle specific grease and something like marine wheel bearing grease.

For bearings: Enduro 6902 (15/28x7mm)
A DT Swiss 240 rear hub uses 2x 6902 bearings. This is a standard mid-range "performance" hub and would be representative of many common hubs.

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Old 07-18-17, 08:28 AM
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I agree a test on cup & cone would be better as cartridge bearings are more likely sealed for life and the auto industry already has tested cartridge bearings many times. I also think there needs to be more shock loads - perhaps every few seconds. Some sort of pendulum/hammer that is pulled back by a geared motor should do it. I suspect a lightly loaded cartridge bearing could last years - think vintage fans and pumps that are 40-50 years old and still going fine. And can you use real road-side grit rather than sand - vacuum some up perhaps?

But for any test like this to be meaningful, it has to test multiple units (a single bearing could have come from an exceptionally tight or loose batch) and needs to eliminate any human action by automation. I worked in an automotive oil and air filter factory and they had a certified testing lab there. The testing machines were automated to eliminate any human influence and even the grit used to test was purchased at high cost from a special lab who supplied a specific size and consistency.
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Old 07-18-17, 10:17 AM
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Thanks one more in advance for any help/critique/advice.

I didn't state clearly my intentions, so to correct:

The goal of the test is to check durability (lifetime). To be more precise - with a 5000 km maintenance period, which grease fares better and for how much (wear test by weighing and visual inspection after a thorough cleaning).

Rolling resistance is very small for any properly lubricated bearing on a bicycle. Oil would beat practically any grease on those tests, but fail at service intervals. So I won't even be measuring that.

As for bearings - I'm thinking 6903, of decent quality, since the machine mount is 16 mm diameter - it would make it easier to produce an adapter. Would that work fine - it is used in non-Shimano wheels for all I know? Get a batch of 10 for a start, from a good quality manufacturer, clean them all, weigh them all, then put them in an oil bath to prevent corrosion since I can test only one, perhaps two at a time at most.

The test should give results that can be used for cup and cone bearings as well IMO, unless I've missed something.

For shock tests, all I can use for now is a Charpy pendulum, which requires removing the tested bearing off the test machine, hitting it then putting it back. I've already got a DIY fan if it is required - 4 PC cooling fans, fixed to a single rack. Not sure how to make a DIY hitting gizmo. I'll post pics after the holidays (mid August). Then I'll know more about lab time and all the resources available. The best possible option would be for someone who actually knows what they're doing to take it up as a thesis, or a grad project. But for now - they're happy to let me use the lab for free, with me providing all the samples and doing the testing, which is more than awesome. For now I want to do all that is up to me to make it be realistic and to prepare all that's needed.

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Old 07-18-17, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by 1989Pre
I'm not sure: I don't see it available.., I saw it back in the early 1980's. I do see an electrically-conductive carbon grease for switches, relays, etc., but I doubt that's what my tech used.
I now use a plant-based lithium complex that is N.L.G.I. #2.

Greetings
I suspect you mean Moly grease.
Regards
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Old 07-18-17, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Slaninar
I didn't state clearly my intentions, so to correct:

The goal of the test is to check durability (lifetime). To be more precise - with a 5000 km maintenance period, which grease fares better and for how much (wear test by weighing and visual inspection after a thorough cleaning).
Thank you for this.

I would be interested in comparing Crystal Grease with other more traditional greases, especially over longer service intervals and wet conditions. Anecdotally, I have found that it does an amazing job - like new bearings after many miles in harsh conditions.


-Tim-
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Old 07-18-17, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Slaninar
Rolling resistance is very small for any properly lubricated bearing on a bicycle. Oil would beat practically any grease on those tests, but fail at service intervals. So I won't even be measuring that.
The purpose of measuring drag is also to show when a bearing has failed. If the drag increases to say 10x it's starting drag, the bearing has clearly failed. Testing grease without also measuring drag is meaningless. The answer is marine grade heavy duty grease. But that would significantly increase drag. You need a way to at least measure the initial drag, say after the first ~500km. Something simple works, spin down time of a weight for example.

And the purpose of testing light oil and no lube is to introduce positive controls. We all know those should fail immediately, if your test doesn't show those compounds failing early then your methodology is flawed.

Since you're primarily concerned with lifetime, I wouldn't bother with service interval. The recommended service interval is basically half the bearing lifetime. Wear increases dramatically when the grease breaks down, so any interval significantly shorter than the lifetime is likely ok. If grease A lasts for 30000km, there's no reason to change it at 5000km, it's still practically new.

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Old 07-18-17, 11:15 PM
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Originally Posted by gsa103
The purpose of measuring drag is also to show when a bearing has failed. If the drag increases to say 10x it's starting drag, the bearing has clearly failed. Testing grease without also measuring drag is meaningless. The answer is marine grade heavy duty grease. But that would significantly increase drag. You need a way to at least measure the initial drag, say after the first ~500km. Something simple works, spin down time of a weight for example.

And the purpose of testing light oil and no lube is to introduce positive controls. We all know those should fail immediately, if your test doesn't show those compounds failing early then your methodology is flawed.

Since you're primarily concerned with lifetime, I wouldn't bother with service interval. The recommended service interval is basically half the bearing lifetime. Wear increases dramatically when the grease breaks down, so any interval significantly shorter than the lifetime is likely ok. If grease A lasts for 30000km, there's no reason to change it at 5000km, it's still practically new.
Wouldn't measuring weight and visual inspection provide the information that a bearing has failed? Anyway, I'll see about the way to measure drag.

Good point on using light oil as a test of the test's reliability. Thanks for the idea.

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Old 07-18-17, 11:40 PM
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you should also consider high instantanous loading like turns, bumps, start/stop loading, etc... these instantaneousloads can be 5 to ten times rider/bike weights...

and the wet weather testing should be more similar to actual conditions... simply pouring a liquid mixture onto the bearing every now and then is not a good experiment.

then, there's the fact that MOST bikes have simple mechanical seals... no rubber lips contacting race/shell, etc.

and "automotive grease"... which one? there are HUNDREDS of different grades/formulations. I keep 5 types in my garage... each is quite different from the others.

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Old 07-19-17, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by maddog34
you should also consider high instantanous loading like turns, bumps, start/stop loading, etc... these instantaneousloads can be 5 to ten times rider/bike weights...

and the wet weather testing should be more similar to actual conditions... simply pouring a liquid mixture onto the bearing every now and then is not a good experiment.

then, there's the fact that MOST bikes have simple mechanical seals... no rubber lips contacting race/shell, etc.

and "automotive grease"... which one? there are HUNDREDS of different grades/formulations. I keep 5 types in my garage... each is quite different from the others.
For lateral loads - so far I don't think I'd be able to test for it. Even though it's mostly present when riding hard while standing.

For bumps - I'll try to simulate those as I've explained.

What do you propose for for wet weather testing? For all I know, hubs get splashed from time to time (like I will simulate), while the rain itself doesn't hit them directly, and there's no high pressure for water to get inside the bearings. So splashes of dirt and mud seem like strict enough test to me.
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Old 07-19-17, 06:24 PM
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every pedal stroke causes lateral loading...

as to wet test... i'd rig a drip line to drip onto the bearing seal at about 2 drips per second... run that drip line about 1/3 of the time of the entire test... this will more correctly simulate an"all season commuter" use.... at least around my area! Road dirt is more complex than your proposed mix, too... car drippings, and various other acidic compounds will be found in the gutters and puddles... and then, there are the more organic debris mixes found along forest pathways. and on tree lined streets... MTB's see lots of CLAY around here, too... near a beach? the SALT is NASTY on steel...

i'd choose "metal dust cover" bearings to test, since MOST of the bikes only have those plain metal dust covers(think Walmart bikes)...

does the spindle, or some outside drive create the rotation on the test device? IF it's a spindle drive, then applying lateral loading could be achieved with a weight on an angled pendulum... then swapping the weight to the other side of the outer race occasionally...

and using an infrared temp. sensor "camera" would provide additional data, eh?

things i consider with various greases... temp. of operation... FLOWBACK of the chosen grease onto contact surfaces after use ceases, and weather proofing characteristics... Thick, high temp. greases DO NOT flow back when used on lower speed, lower pressure, bearings! this is why i constantly use lighter, "thinner" greases on bikes. I took apart a hub with marine grease in it just a few nights ago.. there was plenty of grease in the hub, but NONE on the actual contact surfaces!... no water or rust in the hub, but the cones were galled up from excessive heat!... the balls were shot, too.

try to find some of the OLD style amber grease, too... that stuff works ok, but breaks down over long time periods... the oilier part separates and runs out, leaving behind parafin wax that is NOT going to move until it gets thinned out with some lighter oil or penetrant solvent... think "really old schwinn hubs".. scrape some of that hard wax compound out, and force it into a cleaned bearing... see what the test results are... should be good for some laughs!

"carbon"... ALL greases contain long chain carbon molecules.... petroleum oil comes from deposits of trapped ALGAE BLOOMS that turned the oceans into pea soup, btw.... very few dinosaurs were involved.... and in fact, most oil deposits pre-date the dinosaurs by quite a long time... and the crude thins out, the longer it's been buried... The Labrea TAR pits are fairly recent deposits... the gasoline rich Lakota deposits are much older and deeper... they contain over 70% gasoline... no WONDER the oil companies want to get at it so quickly, eh? the crude looks like honey when it comes up the pipes... TAR SANDS are very young, relatively... and they have minimal overburden, allowing open pit mining.

geology relates to bikes... who'da thunk it!?!

another thought... include heat cycling into your tests... ride, park, ride... and keep the drip line running during the heat cycling cool down periods... not everyone parks their bikes inside... as the bearings cool, they WILL draw in water/grunge.... a well known factor.

so... you have long term access to the test machine, right? like... a couple years?

now... excuse me while i slice several wraps of rubbery tape from a seat post some logger shimmed up to fit the wrong bike.... i'd post a pic for laughs, but it looks too obscene! there was no seat on the post, either.................

UPDATE: it WAS a springy post, with the top slider gone, collar still in place....... imagine the shape after being wrapped..... yes, i wore gloves.....

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Old 07-20-17, 11:11 PM
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Originally Posted by maddog34
so... you have long term access to the test machine, right? like... a couple years?
Most encouraging.

Some good points though.
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Old 07-18-20, 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by cny-bikeman
Bike bearings don't require special grease, since speeds and loads are relatively light - most any grease will do
Put in some real riding, with a steady output in hills and rolling terrain in all weather, and you see a whole new view on the demands real cycling can put on bearings.and grease I have seen a few hubs /Bottom brackets and headsets ruined from grease failure ie washout. Only a select few Bicycle greases hold out in rain and high speeds , under consistent power outputs
So after me seeing damaged bearings riding with Finish Line and Park Polylube grease thru vigorous rides in rain, I'm a bit disappointed and can tell you only Phil Wood grease stands up to this test in my experience. If you do not have experience really putting bike components and grease to the test, then do not comment based on assumptions , you have not been a diehard cyclist to say that
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Old 07-18-20, 10:15 PM
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https://cyclingtips.com/2016/05/fric...ring-friction/

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Old 07-18-20, 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by bikeman68
Put in some real riding, with a steady output in hills and rolling terrain in all weather, and you see a whole new view on the demands real cycling can put on bearings.and grease I have seen a few hubs /Bottom brackets and headsets ruined from grease failure ie washout. Only a select few Bicycle greases hold out in rain and high speeds , under consistent power outputs
So after me seeing damaged bearings riding with Finish Line and Park Polylube grease thru vigorous rides in rain, I'm a bit disappointed and can tell you only Phil Wood grease stands up to this test in my experience. If you do not have experience really putting bike components and grease to the test, then do not comment based on assumptions , you have not been a diehard cyclist to say that
Speeds and loads are very low on bike bearings. A bike going 60 mph only has 600 rpm in the hubs; the same bearing components get used in machines that spin at 10 times that, and see much higher loading. This is actually an issue for bike bearings. General purpose bearings have only a fairly low charge of grease, because at high speed, the bearings get hot, and excess grease increases friction and reduces the bearings ability to reject heat. (it can also lead to seal failure, when the grease expands or melts and blows out a seal.) Bike bearings never get that hot, so filling them with more grease gives them better resistance to washout and corrosion. Phil used pry the seals off the cartridge bearings they bought, and inject more grease into them.

Water and contamination are the only real dangers to bike bearings, and there are plenty of greases that deal with water. Not much grease can do if you fill the bearing with sand.

I do not use bike specific greases, because they're all relabeled stuff, no one publishes spec sheets, and what's in the tube is subject to change.
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Old 07-18-20, 10:40 PM
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...at this point, let me interject that I absolutely adore the lubrication product threads on teh Biekforooms, inclusive of, but not limited to bearing grease. The unvarnished expression of personal opinion is what makes this forum a classic. Here is one over five years old, and still drawing vigorous debate. :

We now return you to your regular programming.
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Old 07-19-20, 08:16 AM
  #23  
HillRider
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Originally Posted by 3alarmer
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...at this point, let me interject that I absolutely adore the lubrication product threads on teh Biekforooms, inclusive of, but not limited to bearing grease. The unvarnished expression of personal opinion is what makes this forum a classic. Here is one over five years old, and still drawing vigorous debate.
Well, it's not all personal opinion. Several posters on this forum have the technical education and background to make informed fact-based comments on this and other subjects. The problem for the general reader is separating informed recommendations from anecdotal and misinterpreted comments.

Now that this thread is back in play, I expect it will go on for several more days.
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Old 07-19-20, 09:26 AM
  #24  
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I guess every "generation" of forum members has to repeat the past....

I will point out that there's a lot of trade-offs in bearings and bearing lubrication. If I were racing, maybe the very small differences in frictional loss might be important in the decisions on bearing typoe and lube. As it is, I don't want to have to relubricate my hubs and BB with oil (remember the little black anodized oil hole caps on Campy Nuovo Record hubs?) every time I go for a ride. And if I get caught in the rain I'd prefer not to have to disassemble hubs and BB to dry things out. The TdF guys have minions (very skilled ones!) to do that.

Because bikes are so efficient, I think part of the allure of cycling is getting the most efficient setup. But sometimes efficiency is going to cost convenience. So I guess folks will speculate away on which grease gives micro-advantage. For me, it's probably more enjoyable to just go out for a ride. In fact, one of my criteria, perhaps the major criterion, for bike gear is how little it takes for me to be prepared to jump on and ride. There's distractions enough discouraging setting aside an hour or so for a ride. I don't need to be worrying about relubing stuff (which I'd want to do if I used oils and unsealed bearings) each time.
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Old 07-19-20, 09:31 AM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by bikeman68
Put in some real riding, with a steady output in hills and rolling terrain in all weather, and you see a whole new view on the demands real cycling can put on bearings.and grease I have seen a few hubs /Bottom brackets and headsets ruined from grease failure ie washout. Only a select few Bicycle greases hold out in rain and high speeds , under consistent power outputs
So after me seeing damaged bearings riding with Finish Line and Park Polylube grease thru vigorous rides in rain, I'm a bit disappointed and can tell you only Phil Wood grease stands up to this test in my experience. If you do not have experience really putting bike components and grease to the test, then do not comment based on assumptions , you have not been a diehard cyclist to say that



Suggest: the kind, quantity etc of the 'slurry' going thru said bearing unit is a variable. Hence the hubs.. BB's that care little per bad conditions. Sealed.. for the most part.

But yes.. find the Phil grease good stuff also.
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