67tony 

I'm building a wheelset, with Shimano 105 5500 hubs, for an early '90's Specialized Allez. Looking for a reasonable-priced rim, I'm considering the Sun Ringle CR18 and the Weinmann AS23X. Any thoughts, opinions, or comparably-priced alternatives are appreciated!

hankamania

Definitely the CR18. The AS23X is single-walled, while the CR18 is double-walled with eyelets and will build into a MUCH stronger wheel.

FWIW, I used polished CR18s when I built new wheels on my '75 PX10. They look great and have given me no trouble.

branko_76 

I like the profile of the Weinmanns, kind of 80's looking, but they don't have eyelets and they appear to be anodized.

The CR18's are eyeletted and polished, which for me is important because I don't like anodizing.

Overall, I'd say the CR18 is a better rim unless the Weinmann has some special alloy that makes them stronger.

EDIT: you beat me to it hankamania

52telecaster

Cr18s are always good to me too.

philbob57

I replaced Rigida 1320s from the '80s with CR18s, and I was initially disappointed with the looks. You might be hapier if you stretch your budget to something like the H Plus Son TB14. OTOH, I got used to the CR18s, and the wheels are reliable, and I rarely look at them anyway.

USAZorro

I've built wheels with both. CR-18 is stronger... and heavier. That said, if your concerns are weight and looks, the AS23x is fine.

The AS23x comes in polished alloy as well.

SurferRosa

For an Allez, I'd use the more narrow Sun m13ii and gently take a razor blade to the "m13ii" portion of the humongous rim label.

67tony 

All great advice, especially about going with the Sun M13 II...a bit narrower than the CR18. Similar price, too. Thanks for the responses!

This'll be my first wheel-build, so I'm pretty excited. I don't have a truing stand yet, or spokes, but continue to learn. I may try to use a fork, and jury-rig some feelers, at least for the front wheel.

Question: Is it a good idea to use thinner spokes on the non-drive side of the rear wheel?

I've also got questions about patterns, spoke type, spoke lengths, etc...but will probably start a separate thread.

PS: I bought CR-18's 6 years ago and liked them a lot. Had a shop put them around Suntour Sprint hubs for my orange '73 Super Sport...since sold to a great guy from Chicago.

The Golden Boy 

Whatta you gonna do brother? When Hankamania runs wild all over you!!!

hankamania

Hankamania:
Not just a force of nature, it's a popular dance move.

hankamania

Go double butted 14/15 /14ga (2.0/1.8/2.0mm) and 3-cross all around.

No reason to do anything else, unless you're using 28 or 24 spokes per wheel. It's the classic standard because it works the best. Especially if it's the first set you're building.

For 32 hole CR18s laced 3X to 5500 hubs, use 300mm in the front, 297 on the drive side and 298 on the NDS. If you go with 36, subtract 2mm from each spoke.

Download SpoCalc from Sheldon Brown site. It's an excel spreadsheet that's got a great database of hubs and rims, and it's easy to use.

67tony 

Great specific advice, thanks for sharing!
So, it's unnecessary to us differing thicknesses of spokes on a dished rear wheel?

And, trouble already...I've decided on Sun M13 II rims, and they do not appear on SpoCalc. Plus, I'm using a Shimano 105 5500 hub, with a 9-speed cassette, and I don't see that on the spreadsheet, either.

Have I bitten off more than I can chew?

tkamd73 

For cheap rims, hard to beat Sun CR18s. Put them on a few builds for friends, no complaints.
Tim

SurferRosa

Use 610 for the erd.

And for the hub, measure it yourself with a metric ruler using this guideline:

https://leonard.io/edd/howtomeasure

branko_76 

....and don't forget the butted spokes....

Slightspeed

A year ago I had a set of CR18s built up for my '64 Legnano. I love them. At first I thought the brake tracks were too "tall", and didn't keep the vintage look of the old rims (unbranded ). They ride nice, survived last year's Eroica, and are great rims for the price. The improved braking of the new braking surfaces are worth the price alone. They work very well with Pasela 28s.

Cr18s on my Legnano.

Russ Roth

Lighter NDS not a bad idea but I have found on the wheels I've built that the results are only a marginal improvement.
As others mentioned, butted is the way to go. One advantage is once you measure out all the spokes you may find that you can get away with 1 box of spokes; remember you can go +/-2mm. This sometimes means you need 2 lengths with the NDS being practically the same as the front spokes and this has been the only reason I've done lighter on the NDS. If all 4 spokes are within 3mm of each other I like to buy the DT and just get a box of 72 butted spokes. If the DS is one length and the NDS and front spokes are close enough to each other then I buy Wheelsmith since with 32h builds it means 48 spokes for the 3 sides and enough left from the other bag to build a different wheel; in this situation I'll also buy lighter spokes for the front resulting in the lighter NDS. Building your own wheels results in a lot of left over so I try to optimize spoke usage.
Unless you're light go with 3x, not a lot of benefit going less though for my wife who's light and quick but not powerful and for my kids I'll build 2x; never really seen a need for 4x and have only done so once, just seemed pointless.

branko_76 

Beautiful bike !

Those SUN rims take a polish very well. I recently un-laced a pair of wheels that I built a few years ago with M13 ll just to clean and polish them.

Salamandrine 

Yep, I always support destickerization. Probably wouldn't clash much with an 80s Allez, but they killed the look of my PX10 until they came off. These stickers peel off easily if you warm them up a little with a hair dryer on high or heat gun on low. Doesn't take much.

The polished M13II rims look very much like Rigidas when the stickers are removed, but are much stronger.

hankamania

4X 36-spoke setups have the interesting quirk that the spokes are almost perfectly tangential to the spoke hole circle, and as a result, the hub dimensions become almost irrelevant. Front, rear, high-flange, low-lange, doesn't matter, everything will come within about a millimeter and a half. The only thing that really determines spoke length is ERD. So you can only carry a single length of spare spokes when touring On my touring bike with 3x wheels, I have to carry 3 spare spokes - Front, Rear DS and Rear NDS.

Cougrrcj

A few years ago, I had bought a complete wheelset for a budget build of the Univega Viva Sport. I got the set from Velomine, using cheap Formula sealed bearing hubs, straight gauge stainless spokes and 27" Sun M13II rims. They look like they belong on there!

hankamania

That's what I have on my '75 PX10 - CR18s with 28mm Paselas. But with Century Grey Centaur hubs, to match the rest of the groupset I have on there.

mechanicmatt

Another good calc.

https://www.kstoerz.com/freespoke/

branko_76 

Nice budget build bike !

How have the wheels held up?

seypat

I have 1 wheelset built up with CR18s. They're good rims. I have 3 wheelsets built with Sun ME14A. Really good rims. I don't know if you can find them anymore. They are no longer listed on the Sun Ringle website.

I just built up a wheelset with Araya AR-713 rims. They appear to be really stout rims.

700c Rims ? Araya USA