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Wheel building...

Old 05-06-20, 09:16 AM
  #1  
bmcer
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Wheel building...

Just wonder what others are using to start nipple onto spokes when building a new wheel. I've been limping along with a spoke bent into a "T" with an old nipple screwed backwards onto it far enough to act as a 'stop' for the nipple being installed. It does avoid the aggravation of dropping nipples inside the rim, but sometimes the nipple I'm trying to place sticks on threads of my kludged up tool and comes back out when I try to remove the tool. And since all the nipples do back up a little, they're not all threaded on to the same depth.

I'm eyeing the Unior nipple instalation tool since it appears to do exactly what I want, but I'm curious if there's a less spendy way to accomplish the same thing.
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Old 05-06-20, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by bmcer
Just wonder what others are using to start nipple onto spokes when building a new wheel. I've been limping along with a spoke bent into a "T" with an old nipple screwed backwards onto it far enough to act as a 'stop' for the nipple being installed. It does avoid the aggravation of dropping nipples inside the rim, but sometimes the nipple I'm trying to place sticks on threads of my kludged up tool and comes back out when I try to remove the tool. And since all the nipples do back up a little, they're not all threaded on to the same depth.

I'm eyeing the Unior nipple instalation tool since it appears to do exactly what I want, but I'm curious if there's a less spendy way to accomplish the same thing.
Wheel Fanatyk sells a pin vice but it’s as expensive as the Unior tool. There are other pin vises out there for less however. You’d just need to find the smooth bit for that fits in the spoke nipple. Another consideration would be a jewelry screw driver set. If it has enough sizes, one of them could fit in the nipple.
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Old 05-06-20, 09:55 AM
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I use one like this: https://www.zoro.com/proto-screw-sta...51/i/G6069612/
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Old 05-06-20, 10:08 AM
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If you use an old spoke as you have been doing, It will work a bit easier if you grind down the first few threads on the spoke to a slight taper. It makes putting the nipple on your tool a bit easier, and when you unscrew your tool from the nipple it makes it easy to remove the tool. HTH, MH

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Old 05-06-20, 10:12 AM
  #5  
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Originally Posted by bmcer
...I'm curious if there's a less spendy way to accomplish the same thing.
IIRC, Roger Musson, in his "Wheelbuilding" book, recommended using a Q-tip! Snip off one of the "buds" and insert the stick into the slotted end of the spoke. I've done this; it's primitive, but it works... and you'd be hard-pressed to find a "less-spendy" method!
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Old 05-06-20, 12:37 PM
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I too actually like a q tip cut at an angle. I also often use a straight pick, and have also used sharpened take-out chopsticks. I like something that basically sticks on due to light compression. I only ever start nipples to a few thread while lacing-I have a nipple driver to get them to even engagement before bringing up to working tension.
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Old 05-06-20, 01:02 PM
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Wooden toothpick...
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Old 05-06-20, 01:55 PM
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Thanks for the suggestions y'all. Lots of good ideas here. I've tried using a Q-tip, but found that after just a bit of use, it doesn't hold onto the nipple reliably. Haven't tried a pin vise. Do they come with "bits" that'll hang onto the nipple while inserting it? So far, I'm thinking the Unior tool is most likely to meet my needs.
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Old 05-06-20, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by lubloi
Wooden toothpick...
Same here. Once the tip starts to get beat up, I just snip it off and it's good again.
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Old 05-06-20, 03:09 PM
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The unior isn't that great for getting things started, I've got one and even with the pin fully extended the nipple falls right off if you're trying to insert at an angle. I typically use another spoke, thread the nipple on one turn from the back and insert into the rim. Shop I was at had an interesting one that had a center piece that was spring loaded and locked into place when pushed into the end of the nipple, once you pulled it out you gave a small twist to reset it. Don't know where or who made it and have only ever seen one. not certain it was actually designed for spoke nipples either.
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Old 05-06-20, 07:59 PM
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This is what I use. The working nipple just threads onto the few remaining threads. (BTW, this is not my idea - can't recall where I saw this - one of the wheelbuildling books?). This gives good purchase. Easy to twirl the eccentrically bent spoke down. Easy to remove the tool and move onto the next one. Commercially, hard to beat the old VAR version of a Yankee Screwdriver, with a spoke tip (screwdriver with a nub) on the end.



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Old 05-06-20, 08:31 PM
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This is the old VAR tool:
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Old 05-06-20, 08:56 PM
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Last time I used this screwdriver. I have no idea where I got it.







John

Edit Added: I do remember grinding the typical screwdriver side flares straight and making the tip end thicker.

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Old 05-07-20, 08:48 AM
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I use an awl just to get the nipple started. After I have the entire wheel laced, I put a thumbnail into the last thread of every spoke and run them up to that point with a nipple driver.
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Old 05-07-20, 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by WizardOfBoz
This is what I use. The working nipple just threads onto the few remaining threads. (BTW, this is not my idea - can't recall where I saw this - one of the wheelbuildling books?). This gives good purchase. Easy to twirl the eccentrically bent spoke down. Easy to remove the tool and move onto the next one. Commercially, hard to beat the old VAR version of a Yankee Screwdriver, with a spoke tip (screwdriver with a nub) on the end.


That's exactly what I've been using. The problem I've had is sometimes the nipple would rather stay on the tool when I start backing it out rather than staying threaded onto the spoke. Doesn't happen often, but when it does, it's a great way to drop the nipple into the rim, and when you've already got half a dozen spokes laced, retrievng it is a major PIA
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Old 05-07-20, 12:58 PM
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So have I been doing it wrong all along?

I take a spoke, thread a little bit on the back, poke it through until I can pinch the nipple and spoke together. Then I grab a small screwdriver and thread it in.

It's a little fiddly but seems to work. This nipple driver seems so easy to diy, that I'll definitely make one before my next build. Curious how much it helps.
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Old 05-07-20, 01:06 PM
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I haven't built that many wheels, but I read the suggestion by Mike_T on some other web page somewhere about cutting an angle across a QTip and using that to insert the nipples, and that's what I've done and it worked very well. It's about as simple, cheap, and effective as I need it to be.
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Old 05-07-20, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by WizardOfBoz
This is what I use. The working nipple just threads onto the few remaining threads. (BTW, this is not my idea - can't recall where I saw this - one of the wheelbuildling books?). This gives good purchase. Easy to twirl the eccentrically bent spoke down. Easy to remove the tool and move onto the next one. Commercially, hard to beat the old VAR version of a Yankee Screwdriver, with a spoke tip (screwdriver with a nub) on the end.


My approach exactly except I like "T" handles. (That might be easier to use but flunks my aesthetics.) I just snug the nipple on nice and tight with a spoke wrench. That's gonna be far tighter than anything I"ll ever do starting spokes. I have two nipple starters. One 14mm and one 15mm. (My favorite spokes are the DT 1.6mm butted. Shops rarely carry both 2.0 and 1.8 ends so I get what's available.)

Edit: Those starters are huge time savers with the Velocity Aero rims that do not have ferrules. Chasing lost nipples around the rim gets quite old. They also make it really easy to thread the nipple a bunch of turns so a good portion of the wrench flats are showing and are easy to grab. (Aand a half dozen turns with the driver is much faster than the same number with a spoke wrench.) The reversed nipple means that you have exactly the right number of turns showing to start the nipple and do the work fast. No, cutting or filing. Lose it before the next wheel? Takes no time at all to make the next one.

bmcer - the trick is to do the several turns. If the spoke is still loose, grab the other spokes with your left hand and press that one to pull the nipple down to get the wrench on it. Only then do you back the starter out.

Ben

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Old 05-07-20, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by WizardOfBoz
This is what I use. The working nipple just threads onto the few remaining threads. (BTW, this is not my idea - can't recall where I saw this - one of the wheelbuildling books?). This gives good purchase. Easy to twirl the eccentrically bent spoke down. Easy to remove the tool and move onto the next one. Commercially, hard to beat the old VAR version of a Yankee Screwdriver, with a spoke tip (screwdriver with a nub) on the end.


Wiz,
If you make a minor adjustment to your tool, it will make starting the nipple on the spoke a bit easier. I have used this tool since the mid 70's and it speeds up my build time, If you make your bend in the spoke like this tool it will aid in getting the nipple started easily. The company is no longer around but occasionally one will show up on the auction sites.

Smiles, MH
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Old 05-07-20, 07:38 PM
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I actually like the angle in my spoke starter. It would be even better with a handle and that angle, but the axis of the shank that holds the spoke crosses the part of the "handle" with a shank. That means my hand barely moves and I can rotate a spoke down much faster then if I had to do the "Model T Starter Crank" motion that commercial models require. I also feel that with the axis intersecting the handle axis, its much easier to keep the force on the nipple centered.

But, I suspect that Mad Honk has done a log more wheels than me and would strip my gears in a nipple twisting race, if you all will forgive the rather crude image. (Get your minds out of the gutters, guys!)

Still, I can put a nipple on this tool with the slightest flick of my wrist, and tighten down till the end of the spoke in the wheel hits the end of the spoke in the tool, and back off, in about ten seconds. I can easily back the tool off the spoke in the bike, typically one handed. About a second.
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Old 05-08-20, 09:58 AM
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I went ahead and ordered the Unior nipple starter and it arrived here yesterday. Looks promising. Don't know yet if it'll function better than my DIY bent spoke started ala Wiz & Mad Honk. Seems the bigger problem is getting my hands on some nipples. After coming up empty with a host of LBS's across 2 counties, I ordered a batch a week ago, but they've been languishing in the USPS center in Philadelphia going nowhere since the 5th. Who knows when or if they'll materialize. Not surprising under the circumstances, but annoying just the same.
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Old 05-08-20, 11:39 AM
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Pricy, but works flawlessly, will last forever: EVT Mulfinger

https://www.efficientvelo.com/tools/...e-loading-tool

Also available on amazon prime.

And Park Tool now makes the “speed-drive” nipple driver: https://www.universalcycles.com/shop...s.php?id=70040

I use the Mulfinger for lacing and the driver for initial tension.

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Old 05-22-20, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by WizardOfBoz
This is what I use. The working nipple just threads onto the few remaining threads. (BTW, this is not my idea - can't recall where I saw this - one of the wheelbuildling books?). This gives good purchase. Easy to twirl the eccentrically bent spoke down. Easy to remove the tool and move onto the next one. Commercially, hard to beat the old VAR version of a Yankee Screwdriver, with a spoke tip (screwdriver with a nub) on the end.


I made this. I had to grind off a little of the nipple to get enough exposed thread to stick out. It worked great. A simple cheap (free?) option for building wheels.
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Old 05-22-20, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by WizardOfBoz
This is the old VAR tool:
I make my own tips using those cheap standard screwdriver bit from the buckets at checkout counters. Only need a center tip that is 1.5mm long.
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Old 05-22-20, 07:10 PM
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This is called a screw starter screwdriver and Harbor Freight has them but only included in a set with other screwdrivers, last time I checked. I also use the Bicycle Research spoke nipple driver mentioned above.
Originally Posted by 70sSanO
Last time I used this screwdriver. I have no idea where I got it.







John

Edit Added: I do remember grinding the typical screwdriver side flares straight and making the tip end thicker.
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