Tubeless lessons learnt
07-20-16, 08:35 AM
#27
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No harm in having some fun around here, but as far as the op goes, his problems started when he opted for a tubeless setup that required the use of rim tape. There was a time when I didn't know any better and bought some wheels that needed tape, had problems, and quickly learned that its not ideal for road tubeless. Now that I've been self educated about the many potential problems that could arise from the use of rim tape in a road tubeless setup I simply take it out of the equation by choosing a rim that doesn't need it at all which simplifies the entire process.
Potential problems with rim tape;
Not enough - Tire won't inflate or inflates but leaks air through the spoke holes especially on carbon wheels where it's an open hole allowing air and sealant to fill the rim and slosh around.
Too much - Difficulty mounting tire because the extra tape increases the overall diameter of the rim making it next to impossible to mount a tire plus you take the chance of the tire bead not engaging the bead hooks properly due to the excessive build up potentially causing your tire to burp off the rim at any given time.
Too wide - May sound stupid but if you haven't gone shopping for rim tape you have no idea. There's several different widths to choose from plus a lot of guys seem recommend Gorilla tape which seems to seal really well but must be trimmed to fit your rims lengthwise, who's done that? If the tape is too wide it could also interfere with the bead lock interface causing a failure.
The tape will also come unglued if its old, installed incorrectly, or gets disturbed during the mounting/dismounting of the tire to where a portion of it as nicked or raised enough for the liquid sealant to get in there and start working on the adhesive.
And let's not forget what happened to me with my Carbon Assaults that were manufactured with some uneven seams where the rim tape adheres to the rim that would allow air and sealant to make its way into the rim.
All of the above can be avoided by choosing a wheel set that is Certified Road Tubeless, just saying.
Look at this picture, where do you think the air and sealant will leak out? If this were a carbon wheel, it would fill the hollow rim.
Look at the seam just above the spoke hole on my old Assault's, no tape is going to seal that crack, again where will the air and sealant go?
Now look at my new Certified Road Tubeless wheel, no spoke holes, smooth as can be, and NO need for tape! The way all road tubeless wheels should be made.
Potential problems with rim tape;
Not enough - Tire won't inflate or inflates but leaks air through the spoke holes especially on carbon wheels where it's an open hole allowing air and sealant to fill the rim and slosh around.
Too much - Difficulty mounting tire because the extra tape increases the overall diameter of the rim making it next to impossible to mount a tire plus you take the chance of the tire bead not engaging the bead hooks properly due to the excessive build up potentially causing your tire to burp off the rim at any given time.
Too wide - May sound stupid but if you haven't gone shopping for rim tape you have no idea. There's several different widths to choose from plus a lot of guys seem recommend Gorilla tape which seems to seal really well but must be trimmed to fit your rims lengthwise, who's done that? If the tape is too wide it could also interfere with the bead lock interface causing a failure.
The tape will also come unglued if its old, installed incorrectly, or gets disturbed during the mounting/dismounting of the tire to where a portion of it as nicked or raised enough for the liquid sealant to get in there and start working on the adhesive.
And let's not forget what happened to me with my Carbon Assaults that were manufactured with some uneven seams where the rim tape adheres to the rim that would allow air and sealant to make its way into the rim.
All of the above can be avoided by choosing a wheel set that is Certified Road Tubeless, just saying.
Look at this picture, where do you think the air and sealant will leak out? If this were a carbon wheel, it would fill the hollow rim.
Look at the seam just above the spoke hole on my old Assault's, no tape is going to seal that crack, again where will the air and sealant go?
Now look at my new Certified Road Tubeless wheel, no spoke holes, smooth as can be, and NO need for tape! The way all road tubeless wheels should be made.
One more thing. Low pressures like 70 psi are no problem re: pinch flats with tubeless, sure. But that low a pressure does not adequately protect the rim. Keeping a tube from being snakebit requires higher pressures, but those higher pressures protect your wheels as well as your tubes. I would rather have a canary in the coal mine. If I pinch flat a tube, I know I need higher tire pressure to protect my rims. It is worth it.
Last edited by rpenmanparker; 07-20-16 at 08:38 AM.
07-20-16, 08:39 AM
#28
Senior Member
I currently have two tubeless setups myself:
Gravel bike: WTB Frequency CX i19, Clement X'Plor MSO Tubeless 36MM, OEM WTB i19 (24mm) tape, Stan's 44mm valves
Fatbike: Mulefut 80SL, OEM Sun Ringle tape and rim strips, Vee Bulldozer 26x4.7, Stan's 35MM valves.
Note that everything above is tubeless-specific.
I have become a reluctant tubeless believer. Like a lot of you, I still don't see a benefit with high pressure, narrow road setups, but there are significant benefits with MTB, fat and gravel/cross bikes:
1. Much reduced chance for flats due to the elimination of pinch flats (the most common type of flat) and running sealant. Neither setup has ever flatted (knock wood).
2. Ability to run very low pressures without flatting. I'll air the fatbike down to sub 5 psi in snow without issue. I run the gravel tires at 35 psi in loose conditions. This is a huge advantage in terms of comfort and grip.
3. Significantly lower weight on the fatbike. Fat tubes weight 1 pound + each. The savings is lower or non-existent on the gravel bike.
Setup tips I've learned:
1. Use dedicated, OEM tubeless ready stuff. Non-tubeless tires and rims might work but are they worth the hassle? I personally don't have the time or patience for rigged-up ghetto solutions.
2. Buy a cheap bead jack as shown above. Make sure the bead is entirely in the channel while mounting. I also use diluted soapy water in a spray bottle.
3. Use OEM tape. Gorilla tape works fine but Gorilla tape absorbs sealant over time, making you add more sealant and resulting in more weight. Also, it's not exactly the right width, ever. Just spend the extra five bucks and get the real tape. You're worth it.
4. Stan's valves are the best. I've tried other brands and they don't seal as easily. Stan's valves are basically required for single wall fat rim designs as the threads go all the way down the valve stem, critical for getting sufficient tightness.
5. Slosh the sealant around after initial inflation and then take the bike out for a ten minute ride. The ride is the key and will ensure a better seal.
6. You need a compressor to mount fat tires. The gravel tires mounted no problem with a track pump.
7. Pouring sealant through a valve with the core removed after both beads are mounted is far less messy than trying to pour it into an unmounted section of tire. A thin funnel works fine.
8. With brand new rims, roughing up the surface of the rim very slightly with fine grit sandpaper and then cleaning the rim with rubbing alcohol takes just a few seconds and makes applying the tape foolproof.
Tubeless is far easier than the above makes it seem. It's worth trying.
Gravel bike: WTB Frequency CX i19, Clement X'Plor MSO Tubeless 36MM, OEM WTB i19 (24mm) tape, Stan's 44mm valves
Fatbike: Mulefut 80SL, OEM Sun Ringle tape and rim strips, Vee Bulldozer 26x4.7, Stan's 35MM valves.
Note that everything above is tubeless-specific.
I have become a reluctant tubeless believer. Like a lot of you, I still don't see a benefit with high pressure, narrow road setups, but there are significant benefits with MTB, fat and gravel/cross bikes:
1. Much reduced chance for flats due to the elimination of pinch flats (the most common type of flat) and running sealant. Neither setup has ever flatted (knock wood).
2. Ability to run very low pressures without flatting. I'll air the fatbike down to sub 5 psi in snow without issue. I run the gravel tires at 35 psi in loose conditions. This is a huge advantage in terms of comfort and grip.
3. Significantly lower weight on the fatbike. Fat tubes weight 1 pound + each. The savings is lower or non-existent on the gravel bike.
Setup tips I've learned:
1. Use dedicated, OEM tubeless ready stuff. Non-tubeless tires and rims might work but are they worth the hassle? I personally don't have the time or patience for rigged-up ghetto solutions.
2. Buy a cheap bead jack as shown above. Make sure the bead is entirely in the channel while mounting. I also use diluted soapy water in a spray bottle.
3. Use OEM tape. Gorilla tape works fine but Gorilla tape absorbs sealant over time, making you add more sealant and resulting in more weight. Also, it's not exactly the right width, ever. Just spend the extra five bucks and get the real tape. You're worth it.
4. Stan's valves are the best. I've tried other brands and they don't seal as easily. Stan's valves are basically required for single wall fat rim designs as the threads go all the way down the valve stem, critical for getting sufficient tightness.
5. Slosh the sealant around after initial inflation and then take the bike out for a ten minute ride. The ride is the key and will ensure a better seal.
6. You need a compressor to mount fat tires. The gravel tires mounted no problem with a track pump.
7. Pouring sealant through a valve with the core removed after both beads are mounted is far less messy than trying to pour it into an unmounted section of tire. A thin funnel works fine.
8. With brand new rims, roughing up the surface of the rim very slightly with fine grit sandpaper and then cleaning the rim with rubbing alcohol takes just a few seconds and makes applying the tape foolproof.
Tubeless is far easier than the above makes it seem. It's worth trying.
Last edited by Hiro11; 07-20-16 at 08:55 AM.
07-20-16, 08:50 AM
#29
Senior Member
Thread Starter
07-20-16, 09:01 AM
#30
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Thread Starter
2. The 10 minutes is at home with a beer, not at the roadside in the rain
3. hopefully this 10 minutes will save a number of 3 minutes on the road
4. I take 10 minutes to change a flat anyway, plus no CO2, so I pump
No harm in having some fun around here, but as far as the op goes, his problems started when he opted for a tubeless setup that required the use of rim tape. There was a time when I didn't know any better and bought some wheels that needed tape, had problems, and quickly learned that its not ideal for road tubeless. Now that I've been self educated about the many potential problems that could arise from the use of rim tape in a road tubeless setup I simply take it out of the equation by choosing a rim that doesn't need it at all which simplifies the entire process.
Potential problems with rim tape;
Not enough - Tire won't inflate or inflates but leaks air through the spoke holes especially on carbon wheels where it's an open hole allowing air and sealant to fill the rim and slosh around.
Too much - Difficulty mounting tire because the extra tape increases the overall diameter of the rim making it next to impossible to mount a tire plus you take the chance of the tire bead not engaging the bead hooks properly due to the excessive build up potentially causing your tire to burp off the rim at any given time.
Too wide - May sound stupid but if you haven't gone shopping for rim tape you have no idea. There's several different widths to choose from plus a lot of guys seem recommend Gorilla tape which seems to seal really well but must be trimmed to fit your rims lengthwise, who's done that? If the tape is too wide it could also interfere with the bead lock interface causing a failure.
The tape will also come unglued if its old, installed incorrectly, or gets disturbed during the mounting/dismounting of the tire to where a portion of it as nicked or raised enough for the liquid sealant to get in there and start working on the adhesive.
And let's not forget what happened to me with my Carbon Assaults that were manufactured with some uneven seams where the rim tape adheres to the rim that would allow air and sealant to make its way into the rim.
All of the above can be avoided by choosing a wheel set that is Certified Road Tubeless, just saying.
Potential problems with rim tape;
Not enough - Tire won't inflate or inflates but leaks air through the spoke holes especially on carbon wheels where it's an open hole allowing air and sealant to fill the rim and slosh around.
Too much - Difficulty mounting tire because the extra tape increases the overall diameter of the rim making it next to impossible to mount a tire plus you take the chance of the tire bead not engaging the bead hooks properly due to the excessive build up potentially causing your tire to burp off the rim at any given time.
Too wide - May sound stupid but if you haven't gone shopping for rim tape you have no idea. There's several different widths to choose from plus a lot of guys seem recommend Gorilla tape which seems to seal really well but must be trimmed to fit your rims lengthwise, who's done that? If the tape is too wide it could also interfere with the bead lock interface causing a failure.
The tape will also come unglued if its old, installed incorrectly, or gets disturbed during the mounting/dismounting of the tire to where a portion of it as nicked or raised enough for the liquid sealant to get in there and start working on the adhesive.
And let's not forget what happened to me with my Carbon Assaults that were manufactured with some uneven seams where the rim tape adheres to the rim that would allow air and sealant to make its way into the rim.
All of the above can be avoided by choosing a wheel set that is Certified Road Tubeless, just saying.
Not available where I live, and importing costs a fortune.
You know I respect you, but that's some misleading commentary. The OP's problems started when he decided to ignore advice and make uninformed decisions on his own, for example in using Kapton tape, which isn't even available in the size spec'd on Velocity's website for the A23.
The other 'advise' you said I ignored was that an additional layer is wrong. Actually Stan's website says that it is one option.
07-20-16, 10:26 AM
#31
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This is exactly the lack of preparedness I'm talking about! Whether cutting or trimming is needed depends on manufacturer spec for the rim width. In the case of Velocity A23, tape spec is 21mm, so narrower than 1".
How in the dickens you'd trim tape width is a mystery to me, let alone why, rather than just buying the proper width.
How in the dickens you'd trim tape width is a mystery to me, let alone why, rather than just buying the proper width.
07-20-16, 12:07 PM
#32
Senior Member
Can you build up that wheel yourself? Do you know the technique? Do you have the steel guide that has to be attached to the alloy nipples to move them into position? Suppose you break a spoke. Can you repair it yourself? A no answer to any of the above questions disqualifies that wheel for my purchase and use.
Here's a picture of the nipple/eyelet setup on the Easton Carbon Wheels.
07-20-16, 12:23 PM
#33
Senior Member
You know I respect you, but that's some misleading commentary. The OP's problems started when he decided to ignore advice and make uninformed decisions on his own, for example in using Kapton tape, which isn't even available in the size spec'd on Velocity's website for the A23. And why didn't he select the Velocity Velotape in the appropriate width and length to start with?
You're correct that a solid rim bed removes issues related to taping, but taping does not need to be the scourage that it apparently is for some. Follow the manufacturers recommendations, people, and if you're going to "lone wolf" it, educate yourself first, understand what you're doing and why you're doing it. In that way, you'd never try installing a tire if the tape was rolling at the edges, because it doesn't comport with the tape's mission; it doesn't make sense.
Let's also remember that taped rims far and away outnumber solid bed rims (hereafter, SBR), and have been used successfully in multiple cycling disciplines, including road, for many years. There is simply no practical reason tape should not work. Similarly, there is no reason to damage tape on installation aside from bad choices, nor does tape need changed every tire removal if properly installed. I'm in year three on one wheelset, 4 tire changes and I-don't-know-how-many tire removals and reinstalls later, all on the same tape. If that's due to better American Classic tape, then fine, it's a better product, so use that; if it's due to better American Classic rim and system design, fine, it's superior so use them; if it's due simply to a well-done job with proper materials, fine, know what you're doing and use the right equipment and spec for the job.
Ultimately, nearly all of the frustrations which some-- not all-- have with tubeless is due to the absence of a system standard. There are no uniform design specifications which rim and tire manufacturers work to, so it's a bit of a crap shoot as to whether a given tire's bead will mount easily on a given rim, for example, or whether another tire will stay locked in. Tire bead shape and height, rim wall height, barb angle and distance from both top and bottom of rim wall...tons of small details which determine how the system works are simply not prescribed.
Therefore, as end users, we have to realize that choosing tubeless means accepting some uncertainty and variance, but also that altering the system (as by tape choice, or tire choice) will likely result in a different outcome and experience. If you aren't ready to take the steps to understand that, and aren't ready to deal with that, abstaining from tubeless for now is a smart decision. In time, the manufacturers will work out something, similar to UST, but for road.
If one chooses tubeless now, expecting a "no-brainer" experience, they're a fool.
You're correct that a solid rim bed removes issues related to taping, but taping does not need to be the scourage that it apparently is for some. Follow the manufacturers recommendations, people, and if you're going to "lone wolf" it, educate yourself first, understand what you're doing and why you're doing it. In that way, you'd never try installing a tire if the tape was rolling at the edges, because it doesn't comport with the tape's mission; it doesn't make sense.
Let's also remember that taped rims far and away outnumber solid bed rims (hereafter, SBR), and have been used successfully in multiple cycling disciplines, including road, for many years. There is simply no practical reason tape should not work. Similarly, there is no reason to damage tape on installation aside from bad choices, nor does tape need changed every tire removal if properly installed. I'm in year three on one wheelset, 4 tire changes and I-don't-know-how-many tire removals and reinstalls later, all on the same tape. If that's due to better American Classic tape, then fine, it's a better product, so use that; if it's due to better American Classic rim and system design, fine, it's superior so use them; if it's due simply to a well-done job with proper materials, fine, know what you're doing and use the right equipment and spec for the job.
Ultimately, nearly all of the frustrations which some-- not all-- have with tubeless is due to the absence of a system standard. There are no uniform design specifications which rim and tire manufacturers work to, so it's a bit of a crap shoot as to whether a given tire's bead will mount easily on a given rim, for example, or whether another tire will stay locked in. Tire bead shape and height, rim wall height, barb angle and distance from both top and bottom of rim wall...tons of small details which determine how the system works are simply not prescribed.
Therefore, as end users, we have to realize that choosing tubeless means accepting some uncertainty and variance, but also that altering the system (as by tape choice, or tire choice) will likely result in a different outcome and experience. If you aren't ready to take the steps to understand that, and aren't ready to deal with that, abstaining from tubeless for now is a smart decision. In time, the manufacturers will work out something, similar to UST, but for road.
If one chooses tubeless now, expecting a "no-brainer" experience, they're a fool.
07-20-16, 12:25 PM
#34
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I feel like Road Tubeless is still in it's infancy whereas MTB Tubeless is a bit more advanced.
MTBikers accepted tubeless a bit faster and it caught on to the point that it's hard to find bikes with tubes these days. I also feel it's far easier to get a mtb tire to stick on the rim than a road tire, however, I feel the lower pressure used in MTB tires might allow them to burp air a bit more, especially due to the constant abuse MTB wheels see vs road wheels.
I feel Road Tubeless still has a lot of hit and miss, and if you want to try it, you either need Tubeless Ready rims/tires or expect to spend some time messing with your setup. I completely realize the way my wheels are taped currently are done so in a matter that shouldn't work, but so far so good. I fussed with my rims for almost a month, then I stopped caring and just slapped some cheap tape on them and it worked. *shrug*
MTBikers accepted tubeless a bit faster and it caught on to the point that it's hard to find bikes with tubes these days. I also feel it's far easier to get a mtb tire to stick on the rim than a road tire, however, I feel the lower pressure used in MTB tires might allow them to burp air a bit more, especially due to the constant abuse MTB wheels see vs road wheels.
I feel Road Tubeless still has a lot of hit and miss, and if you want to try it, you either need Tubeless Ready rims/tires or expect to spend some time messing with your setup. I completely realize the way my wheels are taped currently are done so in a matter that shouldn't work, but so far so good. I fussed with my rims for almost a month, then I stopped caring and just slapped some cheap tape on them and it worked. *shrug*
07-20-16, 12:27 PM
#35
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07-20-16, 12:40 PM
#36
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You certainly have a valid point there and that's most of the reason why not all wheel manufacturers have taken the leap of faith like Shimao, Easton, and Campy/Fulcrum did with their certified road tubeless rim designs. My Easton's actually have Sapim CX-RAY straight pull spokes and the nipples are serviceable from the outside of the rim thanks to Easton placing eyelets on the rim for the nipples to thread into so yes its serviceable. I'm not a wheel builder nor plan to be one anytime soon so the ability to "build up a wheel" or "know the technique" doesn't apply to me. I understand that that option does appeal to some and it certainly interests me but I'd rather not have to deal with it at this point in my life.
Can't wait to get them and go tubeless for my race wheels.
07-20-16, 01:07 PM
#37
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I agree with you and well said. Maybe I went a bit overboard on the whole tape issue, maybe, I just like to jump at every opportunity to educate anyone even thinking about road tubeless that there's better options out there and would assume that any person looking to try it would read a thread like this and be a bit more informed about potential issues that may arise from the use of tape if looking to convert a wheel. Especially if that person has no clue what they're doing.
Totally understand, and I agree that, all else being equal, an SBR is preferable to taping.
07-20-16, 02:18 PM
#38
Senior Member
Just bought the Easton EA90 SLs which work the same way. Double threaded nipple. Thread onto the spoke, then thread into the rim. Hopefully won't have to be replacing spokes anytime soon, but looks pretty painless if the need arises.
Can't wait to get them and go tubeless for my race wheels.
Can't wait to get them and go tubeless for my race wheels.
07-20-16, 06:54 PM
#39
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Thread Starter
Those rims.
Actually almost everything. Cycling is rather in its infancy in India. LBSs carry very little, and that too at very high prices. Anything beyond the very basic has to be imported. Things like wheels, rims etc have very high shipping to India, if at all they ship to India. More than half the online stores don't even ship to India.
Oh, I forgot to add, the icing on the cake, is the 50% [yes, you read right] duty that is added on invoice cost + shipping cost when the items land in India. Not to mention, if the idiot at customs feels like harassing you, he just does not release the items. Enough loopholes there. The biggest loophole is that he is entitled to charge duty on MSRP plus shipping, and can totally ignore what you actually paid.
Things like Gorilla tape - not even seen one in India.
So, small items, we order and bite the bullet with the duties. Most of the stuff, I pick up when I travel, and I like to reserve that for bigger items. Airlines have their own issues with baggage, so it's not easy to get in a bunch of wheels either, especially as we almost always travel with our bikes in the first place.
These Velocity a23s I got locally. They are the only road rims available easily locally, so not like I had a choice. Simple things like the tape and sealant, I had to ask a friend to get as I forgot to add them to my order when I was last in Europe and got a load of groupsets and parts to upgrade our bikes.
A few years ago there was nothing available locally, but duty was 16-20%. Now things are becoming available, but much more expensive with the current rate of duties.
Just as an example the Schwalbe Pro Ones are now available in India at 98 dollars each. I paid 35 at bike24.com
End of rant.
Oh and Chaadster, one of the reasons I started with Kapton, was that it was available locally, and like I said, I had forgotten to add tape and sealant to my order when I had placed my last order. Got Stans tape only now when a friend brought it for me from London.
Actually almost everything. Cycling is rather in its infancy in India. LBSs carry very little, and that too at very high prices. Anything beyond the very basic has to be imported. Things like wheels, rims etc have very high shipping to India, if at all they ship to India. More than half the online stores don't even ship to India.
Oh, I forgot to add, the icing on the cake, is the 50% [yes, you read right] duty that is added on invoice cost + shipping cost when the items land in India. Not to mention, if the idiot at customs feels like harassing you, he just does not release the items. Enough loopholes there. The biggest loophole is that he is entitled to charge duty on MSRP plus shipping, and can totally ignore what you actually paid.
Things like Gorilla tape - not even seen one in India.
So, small items, we order and bite the bullet with the duties. Most of the stuff, I pick up when I travel, and I like to reserve that for bigger items. Airlines have their own issues with baggage, so it's not easy to get in a bunch of wheels either, especially as we almost always travel with our bikes in the first place.
These Velocity a23s I got locally. They are the only road rims available easily locally, so not like I had a choice. Simple things like the tape and sealant, I had to ask a friend to get as I forgot to add them to my order when I was last in Europe and got a load of groupsets and parts to upgrade our bikes.
A few years ago there was nothing available locally, but duty was 16-20%. Now things are becoming available, but much more expensive with the current rate of duties.
Just as an example the Schwalbe Pro Ones are now available in India at 98 dollars each. I paid 35 at bike24.com
End of rant.
You know I respect you, but that's some misleading commentary. The OP's problems started when he decided to ignore advice and make uninformed decisions on his own, for example in using Kapton tape, which isn't even available in the size spec'd on Velocity's website for the A23. And why didn't he select the Velocity Velotape in the appropriate width and length to start with?
Oh and Chaadster, one of the reasons I started with Kapton, was that it was available locally, and like I said, I had forgotten to add tape and sealant to my order when I had placed my last order. Got Stans tape only now when a friend brought it for me from London.
07-21-16, 04:38 AM
#40
Senior Member
Those rims.
Actually almost everything. Cycling is rather in its infancy in India. LBSs carry very little, and that too at very high prices. Anything beyond the very basic has to be imported. Things like wheels, rims etc have very high shipping to India, if at all they ship to India. More than half the online stores don't even ship to India.
Oh, I forgot to add, the icing on the cake, is the 50% [yes, you read right] duty that is added on invoice cost + shipping cost when the items land in India. Not to mention, if the idiot at customs feels like harassing you, he just does not release the items. Enough loopholes there. The biggest loophole is that he is entitled to charge duty on MSRP plus shipping, and can totally ignore what you actually paid.
Things like Gorilla tape - not even seen one in India.
So, small items, we order and bite the bullet with the duties. Most of the stuff, I pick up when I travel, and I like to reserve that for bigger items. Airlines have their own issues with baggage, so it's not easy to get in a bunch of wheels either, especially as we almost always travel with our bikes in the first place.
These Velocity a23s I got locally. They are the only road rims available easily locally, so not like I had a choice. Simple things like the tape and sealant, I had to ask a friend to get as I forgot to add them to my order when I was last in Europe and got a load of groupsets and parts to upgrade our bikes.
A few years ago there was nothing available locally, but duty was 16-20%. Now things are becoming available, but much more expensive with the current rate of duties.
Just as an example the Schwalbe Pro Ones are now available in India at 98 dollars each. I paid 35 at bike24.com
End of rant.
Actually almost everything. Cycling is rather in its infancy in India. LBSs carry very little, and that too at very high prices. Anything beyond the very basic has to be imported. Things like wheels, rims etc have very high shipping to India, if at all they ship to India. More than half the online stores don't even ship to India.
Oh, I forgot to add, the icing on the cake, is the 50% [yes, you read right] duty that is added on invoice cost + shipping cost when the items land in India. Not to mention, if the idiot at customs feels like harassing you, he just does not release the items. Enough loopholes there. The biggest loophole is that he is entitled to charge duty on MSRP plus shipping, and can totally ignore what you actually paid.
Things like Gorilla tape - not even seen one in India.
So, small items, we order and bite the bullet with the duties. Most of the stuff, I pick up when I travel, and I like to reserve that for bigger items. Airlines have their own issues with baggage, so it's not easy to get in a bunch of wheels either, especially as we almost always travel with our bikes in the first place.
These Velocity a23s I got locally. They are the only road rims available easily locally, so not like I had a choice. Simple things like the tape and sealant, I had to ask a friend to get as I forgot to add them to my order when I was last in Europe and got a load of groupsets and parts to upgrade our bikes.
A few years ago there was nothing available locally, but duty was 16-20%. Now things are becoming available, but much more expensive with the current rate of duties.
Just as an example the Schwalbe Pro Ones are now available in India at 98 dollars each. I paid 35 at bike24.com
End of rant.
07-21-16, 06:51 AM
#41
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Wow, I guess we here in the US take it for granted how readily available everything is to us here. I wasn't exactly saying get the wheels I have but maybe something like a set of Ultegra's which here can be found for around $400.00, but where you live they might cost $1,000 all said and done? That's crazy!
now imagine trying to buy a car in Singapore or Malaysia or brazil or etc
07-21-16, 07:04 AM
#42
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As for why not buy the proper width? A roll of Gorilla Tape is $5, and there's enough to do each wheel twice.
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07-21-16, 07:04 AM
#43
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I would have thought there was some preferential business arrangement for Commonwealth countries, no? I figured it conveniently explained the availability of Velocity rims there, too.
07-21-16, 07:17 AM
#44
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If people want to trade off increased hassle to save $20, that's fine, but my beef is with then jumping on the internet to kvetch and crab about how tubeless sucks and how complicated it is without accounting for how they half-assed it.
07-21-16, 07:37 AM
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Wow, I guess we here in the US take it for granted how readily available everything is to us here. I wasn't exactly saying get the wheels I have but maybe something like a set of Ultegra's which here can be found for around $400.00, but where you live they might cost $1,000 all said and done? That's crazy!
07-21-16, 07:37 AM
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I've never experienced the tape becoming soaked with sealant. The stuff just sticks like hell to whatever you press it against. Zero adhesion issues. They've been doing this in the MTB world for a long time.
I wouldn't do it on a road bike due to the pressures involved, but on a MTB there doesn't seem to be any issue.
I wouldn't do it on a road bike due to the pressures involved, but on a MTB there doesn't seem to be any issue.
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07-21-16, 07:54 AM
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You certainly have a valid point there and that's most of the reason why not all wheel manufacturers have taken the leap of faith like Shimao, Easton, and Campy/Fulcrum did with their certified road tubeless rim designs. My Easton's actually have Sapim CX-RAY straight pull spokes and the nipples are serviceable from the outside of the rim thanks to Easton placing eyelets on the rim for the nipples to thread into so yes its serviceable. I'm not a wheel builder nor plan to be one anytime soon so the ability to "build up a wheel" or "know the technique" doesn't apply to me. I understand that that option does appeal to some and it certainly interests me but I'd rather not have to deal with it at this point in my life.
Here's a picture of the nipple/eyelet setup on the Easton Carbon Wheels.
Here's a picture of the nipple/eyelet setup on the Easton Carbon Wheels.
Just bought the Easton EA90 SLs which work the same way. Double threaded nipple. Thread onto the spoke, then thread into the rim. Hopefully won't have to be replacing spokes anytime soon, but looks pretty painless if the need arises.
Can't wait to get them and go tubeless for my race wheels.
Can't wait to get them and go tubeless for my race wheels.
07-21-16, 08:21 AM
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I gave up on tubeless and went back to my old tire/tubes. Only they were pretty worn and I ended up getting two flats that week. So I figured I'd give it one last shot. Took the Gorilla tape, wrapped the rim, didn't trim, threw the tire on and we're almost at a week of holding air. I top off a few psi in the morning and I'm good to go.
*shrug*
I guess we'll see how it goes. It could result in a horrible failure, or it might be fine. I will admit, I have been taking corners a bit slower this week but each day my confidence grows. I'm also getting used to the feel of the tires at lower psi. Right now it still feels really weird to have anything less than 90psi in the back tire. I'm around 75 up front. I tried 70/80 and I felt like I was riding through mud.
07-21-16, 08:23 AM
#49
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I've never experienced the tape becoming soaked with sealant. The stuff just sticks like hell to whatever you press it against. Zero adhesion issues. They've been doing this in the MTB world for a long time.
I wouldn't do it on a road bike due to the pressures involved, but on a MTB there doesn't seem to be any issue.
I wouldn't do it on a road bike due to the pressures involved, but on a MTB there doesn't seem to be any issue.
07-21-16, 08:33 AM
#50
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My sister in law lived in Singapore for several years. When we went and visited, we met a friend of hers who owned a top end 7 series BMW. She told me that the excise taxes + related duties on the BMW totaled about 250%. So, the car we were sitting in cost her the equivalent of about half a million US dollars. On top of that, each mile was metered at a high rate and there were annual taxes levied. ****ing insane.