Growing pain for e-bikes.
02-17-24, 01:25 PM
#126
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02-17-24, 01:45 PM
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The picture that I saw looked (to me) like the rear wheel (in this instance) was on a portable dyno. I didn't think they were measuring speed since it would be load dependent. I doubt we need to be concerned in socal because the gendarmes are overwhelmed with other activities.
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02-18-24, 09:19 AM
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I saw an article in electrek, and the author stated the testing device was dyno-related. The operator (gendarme) locks the front wheel and tests the power of the rear wheel. The max power in the Netherlands is 250w, not 750w which is the max for most US states.
02-18-24, 01:36 PM
#129
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The Watt rating for a motor is not a measure of the power it produces but rather the power it can consume at a single point in time. The police in the Netherlands understand this and so measure the actual power generated with their portable dyno device.
The real problem is the failure of the transportation planners to separate cyclists from pedestrians. In China in the major cities their city planners have created separate bike paths for motorized bike and scooters so there are no conflicts with either cars and trucks or with pedestrians.
The failures of transportation people are always blamed on the motorists or the bicyclists or the pedestrians and "journalists" always accept this at face value.
The real problem is the failure of the transportation planners to separate cyclists from pedestrians. In China in the major cities their city planners have created separate bike paths for motorized bike and scooters so there are no conflicts with either cars and trucks or with pedestrians.
The failures of transportation people are always blamed on the motorists or the bicyclists or the pedestrians and "journalists" always accept this at face value.
02-19-24, 12:06 PM
#130
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Dutch police found a way to test e-bike power on the side of the road
https://electrek.co/2024/02/13/dutch...e-of-the-road/
https://electrek.co/2024/02/13/dutch...e-of-the-road/
Why not just take the bike for a ride with a phone GPS speedometer app running?
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02-19-24, 01:11 PM
#131
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Not easy to calibrate a ride on the road. I'm not sure the device has to be quite so elaborate though. I suppose overkill is good if you are going to sanction someone.
Apparently they go after bikes with large tires, like the one shown in the picture.
The regulations are such that the speed is supposed to be limited. It doesn't really matter what the load is for that, because it should be limited despite the conditions. The only trick with these things is they have to determine when the boost cuts out. A dyno to determine power would be a lot more complicated.
Apparently they go after bikes with large tires, like the one shown in the picture.
The regulations are such that the speed is supposed to be limited. It doesn't really matter what the load is for that, because it should be limited despite the conditions. The only trick with these things is they have to determine when the boost cuts out. A dyno to determine power would be a lot more complicated.
Last edited by unterhausen; 02-19-24 at 01:14 PM.
03-08-24, 08:38 AM
#132
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Bicycle Deaths in New York City Are at a 23-Year High
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/05/n...ths-ebike.html
The rise in electric bike deaths does not appear to be the result of an increase in e-bike ridership, at least not entirely, according to the Department of Transportation. And although the most visible e-bike users in New York may be delivery workers and Citi Bike riders, the majority of people who died on e-bikes last year were neither. Only one delivery worker died from an e-bike crash, according to the department, and four people died using electric Citi Bikes, according to Lyft, which owns the bike share program.
There was one factor that contributed to last year’s spike in e-bike deaths that may suggest a shifting dynamic on the road: nearly a third of the e-bike riders who died crashed or fell without any apparent interference from a vehicle or pedestrian.
Among the cyclists who died in a collision with an automobile, most were hit by trucks, like S.U.V.s, pickups, larger box trucks or tractor-trailers.
Overall, trucks were involved in half of last year’s 30 bike deaths. In at least six of those 15 incidents, the cyclist was killed by a truck that was turning at an intersection — usually making a right turn.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/05/n...ths-ebike.html
The rise in electric bike deaths does not appear to be the result of an increase in e-bike ridership, at least not entirely, according to the Department of Transportation. And although the most visible e-bike users in New York may be delivery workers and Citi Bike riders, the majority of people who died on e-bikes last year were neither. Only one delivery worker died from an e-bike crash, according to the department, and four people died using electric Citi Bikes, according to Lyft, which owns the bike share program.
There was one factor that contributed to last year’s spike in e-bike deaths that may suggest a shifting dynamic on the road: nearly a third of the e-bike riders who died crashed or fell without any apparent interference from a vehicle or pedestrian.
Among the cyclists who died in a collision with an automobile, most were hit by trucks, like S.U.V.s, pickups, larger box trucks or tractor-trailers.
Overall, trucks were involved in half of last year’s 30 bike deaths. In at least six of those 15 incidents, the cyclist was killed by a truck that was turning at an intersection — usually making a right turn.
03-08-24, 11:20 AM
#133
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That seems very strange, maybe some of these riders who fell without any apparent reason were trying to avoid an animal or perhaps died suddenly. Any thoughts on why this might be happening?
03-08-24, 02:00 PM
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The article said "New York City", not the suburbs or countryside. They weren't trying to avoid animals, and definitely didn't die "suddenly", unless getting hit by a vehicle accounted for "suddenly". Too bad the full article is hidden behind a paywall.
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03-08-24, 02:39 PM
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This reminds me of the movie The Equalizer 3, when Denzel grabs the hand of mobster and is pushing real hard on a nerve in his hand. He tells him this is about "pain compliance"...... while politely asking him and his gang to leave town. Hah hah . He shows him there are consequences for his presence there, where before he never felt any.
So it is with real bicycles, you can only go as fast as you can immediately suffer, and not for ever long at that. On an e-bike you can go quite fast, but with zero immediate bodily pain from the effort. So when a speed hungry e-bike rider hops on board, it's f-yeah ! speeeeeed baby without the immediate suffering or one drop of sweat. In that way it's like a drug, all thrill but no suffering. Of course their "bodily consequences" are far more injurious when they do happen to crash or get hit from a car from not being seen from going so fast.
So it is with real bicycles, you can only go as fast as you can immediately suffer, and not for ever long at that. On an e-bike you can go quite fast, but with zero immediate bodily pain from the effort. So when a speed hungry e-bike rider hops on board, it's f-yeah ! speeeeeed baby without the immediate suffering or one drop of sweat. In that way it's like a drug, all thrill but no suffering. Of course their "bodily consequences" are far more injurious when they do happen to crash or get hit from a car from not being seen from going so fast.
03-08-24, 04:16 PM
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This reminds me of the movie The Equalizer 3, when Denzel grabs the hand of mobster and is pushing real hard on a nerve in his hand. He tells him this is about "pain compliance"...... while politely asking him and his gang to leave town. Hah hah . He shows him there are consequences for his presence there, where before he never felt any.
So it is with real bicycles, you can only go as fast as you can immediately suffer, and not for ever long at that. On an e-bike you can go quite fast, but with zero immediate bodily pain from the effort. So when a speed hungry e-bike rider hops on board, it's f-yeah ! speeeeeed baby without the immediate suffering or one drop of sweat. In that way it's like a drug, all thrill but no suffering. Of course their "bodily consequences" are far more injurious when they do happen to crash or get hit from a car from not being seen from going so fast.
So it is with real bicycles, you can only go as fast as you can immediately suffer, and not for ever long at that. On an e-bike you can go quite fast, but with zero immediate bodily pain from the effort. So when a speed hungry e-bike rider hops on board, it's f-yeah ! speeeeeed baby without the immediate suffering or one drop of sweat. In that way it's like a drug, all thrill but no suffering. Of course their "bodily consequences" are far more injurious when they do happen to crash or get hit from a car from not being seen from going so fast.
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Last edited by tds101; 03-08-24 at 04:39 PM.
03-08-24, 04:50 PM
#137
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I've been commuting between Hoboken, Manhattan and Brooklyn (Coney Isl.) on bicycles since 2013.
Traffic pattern for cyclists have changed drastically better for cyclists since.
The pace in the city is different from most anywhere else, even for walkers, let along cyclist or motorists.
As one of the most densely populated city with tourists among them, it's fascinating how casualties are not higher.
Time to time, I have closed calls myself on the bike, but being used to the pace of the city, I manage to avoid death
by hopping onto the sidewalk or any place there is to avoid impact.
I rather hit a 200 lb. pedestrian than a 4000 lb. car. either way I take my chances, but I think the prior gives my better odds.
Traffic pattern for cyclists have changed drastically better for cyclists since.
The pace in the city is different from most anywhere else, even for walkers, let along cyclist or motorists.
As one of the most densely populated city with tourists among them, it's fascinating how casualties are not higher.
Time to time, I have closed calls myself on the bike, but being used to the pace of the city, I manage to avoid death
by hopping onto the sidewalk or any place there is to avoid impact.
I rather hit a 200 lb. pedestrian than a 4000 lb. car. either way I take my chances, but I think the prior gives my better odds.
03-08-24, 05:57 PM
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That actually made no sense, since you seem to be associating something irrelevant to riding an ebike. Speed hungry ebiker? Seems like this is coming from the snobby opinion of a spandex clad rodie, who gets upset when an ebiker passes you by. If you don't like ebikes that's your issue. This isn't a powered vs unpowered debate... Especially since I've SEEN multiple accidents in NYC involving human powered cyclists getting hit and KILLED by reckless, irresponsible drivers. I've ALSO witnessed bicyclists (again, HUMAN powered) hit pedestrians without giving a DAMN about their safety.
It always passes.
03-09-24, 08:25 AM
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It would pass if you actually said what you mean then, since it's coming from an anti-ebike point of view. I understood what you posted, I didn't take offense, and I'm definitely not mad about something someone else said. I'm pro-ebike, escooter, EUC, etc. I own multiple human powered bicycles as well. I didn't come into a thread posting something that's definitely irrelevant, like you have. Is this clear enough for you to understand? If not, clarify your post.
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03-09-24, 01:18 PM
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Ebikes are heavy, I fell a couple times at the beginning when I stopped on an uneven surface, and the weight wound up making me fall.
03-10-24, 09:49 AM
#141
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The Specialized Creo weighs about as much as my steel touring bike which is about 32lbs and can get lighter depending on the trim, My Specialized Vado SL is probably going to clock in at 38lbs which is the weight of some non-electric cruisers and older downhill bikes so heavy if it was a non-electric but still pretty light for an electric but I haven't built it for weight I built it for comfort and useability. Some are heavy, my R+M Supercharger2 Rohloff HS is a beast (with two 625wh batteries) but I don't notice the weight while riding I and so long as I can get my feet down which I can it is fine. Obviously if the bike is too big for you and when you step off the saddle you cannot easily put your feet down flat then it is problematic but that is usually a problem for the stuff that is "One Size Fits Some" which is most common in the lower cost D2C stuff or for really short individuals where the smallest frame is still a bit big but then a step through helps and usually alleviates that to a degree for a decent portion of that population (not all of course)
03-10-24, 02:34 PM
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Regarding those single bike NYC fatalities..... We had one fall last year that was single rider, and could have been far worse. As it was, my wife cracked all her ribs on one side after hitting the wall of a tunnel. She healed up after two months of rest,
All of my falls have been single rider, slick surfaces..... mud, ice, gravel like marbles, I took a bad one last year. Hit my knee and my whole leg swelled up, Docs ordered MRI to look for blood clots,
All of my falls have been single rider, slick surfaces..... mud, ice, gravel like marbles, I took a bad one last year. Hit my knee and my whole leg swelled up, Docs ordered MRI to look for blood clots,
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03-11-24, 04:39 AM
#144
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On the topic of ascending death rates among NYC riders:
It's likely that at least some riders don't fully understand how much of an effect the increases in weight, acceleration, and top speed of e-bikes can have on controlling the bikes. Add the density and unpredictability of New York City traffic, and the changing rates of accidents (and deaths) are unsurprising.
It's likely that at least some riders don't fully understand how much of an effect the increases in weight, acceleration, and top speed of e-bikes can have on controlling the bikes. Add the density and unpredictability of New York City traffic, and the changing rates of accidents (and deaths) are unsurprising.
03-11-24, 08:14 AM
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Bicycle Deaths in New York City Are at a 23-Year High
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/05/n...ths-ebike.html
The rise in electric bike deaths does not appear to be the result of an increase in e-bike ridership, at least not entirely, according to the Department of Transportation. And although the most visible e-bike users in New York may be delivery workers and Citi Bike riders, the majority of people who died on e-bikes last year were neither. Only one delivery worker died from an e-bike crash, according to the department, and four people died using electric Citi Bikes, according to Lyft, which owns the bike share program.
There was one factor that contributed to last year’s spike in e-bike deaths that may suggest a shifting dynamic on the road: nearly a third of the e-bike riders who died crashed or fell without any apparent interference from a vehicle or pedestrian.
Among the cyclists who died in a collision with an automobile, most were hit by trucks, like S.U.V.s, pickups, larger box trucks or tractor-trailers.
Overall, trucks were involved in half of last year’s 30 bike deaths. In at least six of those 15 incidents, the cyclist was killed by a truck that was turning at an intersection — usually making a right turn.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/05/n...ths-ebike.html
The rise in electric bike deaths does not appear to be the result of an increase in e-bike ridership, at least not entirely, according to the Department of Transportation. And although the most visible e-bike users in New York may be delivery workers and Citi Bike riders, the majority of people who died on e-bikes last year were neither. Only one delivery worker died from an e-bike crash, according to the department, and four people died using electric Citi Bikes, according to Lyft, which owns the bike share program.
There was one factor that contributed to last year’s spike in e-bike deaths that may suggest a shifting dynamic on the road: nearly a third of the e-bike riders who died crashed or fell without any apparent interference from a vehicle or pedestrian.
Among the cyclists who died in a collision with an automobile, most were hit by trucks, like S.U.V.s, pickups, larger box trucks or tractor-trailers.
Overall, trucks were involved in half of last year’s 30 bike deaths. In at least six of those 15 incidents, the cyclist was killed by a truck that was turning at an intersection — usually making a right turn.
03-12-24, 05:02 AM
#146
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I'm a kind of libertarian guy who likes his speed, but I have to say that I agree with this approach. Really high speed is not really compatible with bike paths and other bike infrastructure. Moreover, the European traffic design approach is to mix bicycles with pedestrians rather than cars, and too much speed with pedestrians around is also dangerous.
I was thinking about putting a chip on my R&M, which has assist limited to 25kmh, to remove this limitation, but I've changed my mind.
The wrong regulatory approach could lead to degradation of the quality of the experience on bike paths, and increase in accidents, which could cause a backlash. In the U.S., I'd like to see bike traffic mixed with pedestrians, rather than cars, like in Europe, and more bike infrastructure. For all this to work smoothly and safely, a sensible limit on speed is needed.
03-14-24, 02:06 PM
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I am going to disagree with you. Even if a cyclist is going 10 mph, if a pedestrian suddenly walks in front of them, it's not the cyclist's fault but that's what will be said. If a kid breaks lose from a parent and runs in front of a cyclist going 8mph, it's still going to be bad, but not the cyclist's fault. If a dog (or a retractable leash) get in the way of a cyclist going 8mph, it's going to cause an accident. How do I know - they have all happened to me on our local pathway where pedestrians walk on the right side, left side and in the middle and then change without looking behind them at all AND a 4 year old wasn't supervised adequately by a parent and ran right in front of my bike and I had to lay it down to avoid hitting the kid AND I was nearly decapitated by a retractable cable leash stretched across the path with the owner on one side and his dog all the way on the other. My point - I was riding an e-assist at the time at appropriate speeds for the conditions, but even then inattentive or irresponsible pedestrians can cause accidents. So NO, it's not the bikes that create the problem on SHARED paths. Part of the problem is the pedestrian, part is cyclists who go too fast. Where I live the law regarding shared paths says that the pedestrians has the same obligation to behave safely and alertly as cyclists.
03-14-24, 06:10 PM
#148
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Yes I agree with most of what you said. But the problem here is a collision with my bike and a 4 yr old, all fingers point in my direction with extreme prejudice. So like it or not, I give way to the senseless people taking up the entire width of path and grudgingly ride around them. I slow down when pedestrians are walking in the middle of the path.
03-15-24, 06:34 AM
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I've seen it more & more, pedestrians not paying attention to where they are going, focused on their device while walking, not looking before crossing the street..
We all know that plenty of drivers do the same.
Main issue is ebikes make it easier for riders to ride at higher speeds, new or experienced riders alike,
until a rider is familiar with the performance of the ebike, able to respond to situations with minimal incidents,
there are going to be injuries & casualties.
Whether society prioritize legislation to limit PEVs on public roads/trails or educate the masses of importance of following the existing rules of the roads/trails; that's up to each of us to make priorities known to the legislators.
We all know that plenty of drivers do the same.
Main issue is ebikes make it easier for riders to ride at higher speeds, new or experienced riders alike,
until a rider is familiar with the performance of the ebike, able to respond to situations with minimal incidents,
there are going to be injuries & casualties.
Whether society prioritize legislation to limit PEVs on public roads/trails or educate the masses of importance of following the existing rules of the roads/trails; that's up to each of us to make priorities known to the legislators.
03-15-24, 07:25 AM
#150
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Grin's Perspective on Ebike Battery Fires, 20 Years of Experience