rsbob 

https://www.kuow.org/stories/cougar-...state-cyclists

flangehead

Wow. Quite a story.

t2p

whew - some badass gals … fortunately

curious

is it better to pin down a Cougar / animal with a steel bike - or is another material preferred ? … titanium … aluminum … carbon … magnesium ? … and if steel - preference on the joining method and tubing … ? … lugged … TIG’d …

Duragrouch

Geez, I know that radio station and know that bike shop, it's my LBS.

Duragrouch

I'd squeeze it between the halves of my folder. While it was confused and wondering how to unfold it, I'd hit it with a BFR. Actually, I'd try to find something to garrote it if I could get it in front of their neck, or use my pump, one of them tried to strangle it with their hands but zero good. If I had a knife, I'd go for the neck, even on side should work. (As a defender, not the one attacked.)

Rick_D

Holy moly, I have nothing in my repair kit for that.

Have had but one mtn lion encounter, off-trail in the remote eastern Yosemite backcountry, and it wanted nothing to do with us, appeared out of some cover, ran across a meadow and disappeared back into the bush. Camera in hand I did not even think of raising it in time to take a shot.

After that we saw tracks EVERYWHERE as we hiked out, telling ourselves that deer are much more delicious.

Rick_D

Heh, everybody knows it won't touch you if you have a waxed chain. :-)

t2p

unless you go bee’s wax - and then you have a bear problem

Carbonfiberboy 

Yes, they prefer cyclists to those on foot. Good to have a group ride.

downtube42

Sure chose her friends well.

Duragrouch

My guess is the instinct to chase something that is running away from you, just like dogs. If true, stand fast and close together. I think if I ever ride in the hills, I'll want to bring some means of defense; I mentioned this story to locals near that area and they said there was another recent attack earlier than this one. I'd really rather not it be a pistol, I think that would freak out many fellow bikers and hikers, I'm very sensitive to that, not like many. I'm thinking a sheath knife (I recently saw a nice one of good steel and just below the maximum legal carry blade length of 3.5" in many municipalities), or my climbing axe. Somewhere I have some ancient 40 year old pepper spray from a temp job walking through neighborhoods. I guess I should replace that.

2old

In socal they're prevalent and I've encountered several. They've almost always high tailed it when encountered. I reported one instance to the local Rangers and they discovered three deer kills in its "lair". Yikes, no wonder it seemed reluctant to leave, but I was backing out of there slowly while I hoisted my bike over my head to appear as large as possible.

Carbonfiberboy 

I doubt the pepper spay would work. They're not like a bear. They come fast, 30 mph, and jump from a long way out. Even with bears, they say if it's not on a lanyard around your neck, you may not be quick enough. If you see a cougar, dismount and walk backwards away from the cat, actually not quite backwards, body at a 45° angle and never look right at it. Watch out of the corner of your eyes. These women didn't know what they were doing. These things are DANGEROUS. I've seen several black bears up fairly close, just crossing the road in front of me, didn't even look at me. I have no issues with our local bears. Nice to see them, actually.

Back in the WA pioneer days, cougar attacks were not exactly common, but they happened. They found half eaten children with all their fingers gone. Large animal predators. Black bears mostly eat berries, grubs, insects, and fish if they can get them. Nice folks. Grizzlies are not at all the same. In Alaska a journalist went missing. They found his notebook and pencil. I'm an environmentalist, but I'm not in favor of a large scale reintroduction of grizzlies in the North Cascades.

I hike a lot and used to work in the Olympic National Park backcountry. The Park, when I was there, thought there were about 60 cats. I've never seen a cougar, ever, even with at least a 1000 miles of backcountry travel around here. They're not a problem in their own habitat. One was spotted in a parking garage, probably looking for a nice small dog, so they're an issue in human habitat. And then there are all those "Lost Cat" posters that one sees. House cats never get lost. Not funny.

Rick

When I look at other reports of large kitty attacks, they are more so on women and children. Unlike bears the cats are true carnivores. They are stealthy and size up their prey. This makes it very hard to plan any defence against them. The lady survived because of her friends persistence in helping her. Striking the cat in the head with a BFR worked out for them. The use of the knife not so much because the person wielding it had no training and didn't know the vulnerable areas to strike. Slitting the cats throat taking out an artery and the windpipe would work. The only chemical spray that might work is bear spray and it is likely that everybody would have have been affected by it. There was an attack in California north of me more than 5 years ago. A lady and two men from work were riding there mountain bikes and a large cat attacked the lady. The two men turned tail and pedaled away leaving the lady to fend for herself. If it wasn't for a couple of other mountain bikers coming to her aid, she would have been killed. The girls beat the mountain lion back with there bicycles. When the authorities found and put down the cat, it was discovered that the cat was extremely underweight. You by yourself can't 100% be safe from large cats, especially if you are a small child or lady. You and your friends need to work together if their is an attack. As far as a defensive weapon goes, It appears that you need everybody to be wielding things like BFRs, knives, sticks and a very powerful stun gun.

RB1-luvr

Tough read, but thanks for posting this.

downtube42

I believe the most recent fatal PNW attack was a few miles south-east of that location, around North Fork. Two MTBers; one hurt and fled, the other killed. A little further back, maybe five years ago, a female hiker was killed near me, outside Portland. I hike and bike solo a fair amount, both here and that region of WA. At 6'3" 210 lbs, I might be less attractive prey, but I doubt I'd survive an attack by a full grown cat. They are simply too stealthy and too fast.

Nonetheless, the drive or ride to the trailhead is far more dangerous, due to traffic.

The women in the story may not have known the best technique, but they stayed and fought. That's saying a ton.

Duragrouch

If I recall from the article, they hit it with a BFR multiple times and it did nothing. And yes, that's what I meant, that's exactly how I would use the knife, you can't do much more with a 3.5" blade. I think a windpipe or carotid (neck) artery would not require high skill, if they are in roughly the same place as humans. I would go for the artery first, slit from front to back, I ought to hit it if it's not too deep or shielded somehow.

Rick

The effect of striking the cat in the head multiple times. With a rock weighing around 25 lbs did cause it to release the woman.

Duragrouch

We must have read different stories, seriously. The story I read is that the rock did nothing after multiple tries, cat did not release from her head. Only when some sort of officer showed up and shot the cat between the shoulder blades did it release. I'll go read the link again, maybe the story was revised.

EDIT: You're right, and the story was not revised, I remembered wrong. The cat did eventually release her, others held a bike on top of the cat, then the officer showed up and shot it. Sincere thanks for the correction. But I will say (which is what I remembered), it took 15 minutes that the cat was clamped to her face, that's a very long time in that situation. I think a knife would have been quicker.

Rick

I agree with this but society has changed to the point that carrying things like knives has become offensive and sometimes even a crime. The ladies were amazing and to the task of stopping that cat. Between using a small knife, a BFR and pulling on the cats legs and also shoving fingers up the predators nose they wore it down enough that after around 15 minutes It did release there friend. How many of us would have the frame of mind to help another person and be able to pull out a knife or other weapon and take out the attacking animal. Although rare these incidents bring out our primal fears. When I was around 14 years old I was with a youth group camping out. One of the other children had wandered off that morning. We went looking for him and we found him. As we approached him we noticed he was giving snacks to two bear cubs. The mother bear also had noticed this. Our experienced group leader told us to stand together and not run. As we did this mama bear let out a very loud yelling roar. The cubs immediately ran back toward their mother and she continued her approach until she was between them and us. She stopped full erect on her hind legs maybe 12 feet from us, let out a final roar and turned and walked off with her cubs. To this day the thought of this makes me weak in the legs.

Duragrouch

I can't speak for other places, but my municipality and state government allows carrying a knife with a blade length 3.5" or under, if not concealed. That becomes very weird for a folding pocketknife like a swiss army in a pocket. But in this application, I would definitely use a fixed blade in a belt sheath or on the bike as I usually bike in spandex. That said, yes, I would not carry one in an urban or suburban setting, but in a setting like these women were in, I would feel comfortable doing so. I would also note that the knife I am thinking of getting does not have that "tactical" look that so many makers of everything are touting these days with that exact word; It has a simple stainless steel blade and handle available in green or brown. I had already been thinking of buying it for cooking on the trail, it would work so much better than a folder and not get food in the folding joint.

staehpj1

Really? I have always carried a knife with a blade of 2.5-3.5" (daily life, not while riding) and most often it has been partially visible in recent years (it has a clip and peeks out of my pocket). I have never noticed anyone looking askance at it. While I guess it could be in an emergency, I don't consider it to be a weapon. The style was chosen for use as a tool.

As far as legality, that varies with the state or municipality, but here in florida depending on the type of knife it may be covered by the concealed carry laws or exempt from them. The law on what can be carried is pretty generous. In any case there is now permitless carry so anyone can concealed carry. Other states are doing similar things so it would seem that carrying kiives (and other weapons) in at least some states have become more not less likely to be a crime.

I generally do not usually carry a knife on my daily mountain bike rides, but sometimes have my Opinel No. 8 Mushroom Knife along if I think I might harvest some chanterelles. It is typically packed away and not handy for use as a weapon since that isn't what I carry it for.

downtube42

I doubt there is anyone in this thread who can say with certainly what they would do in such a situation. These ladies didn't run away, which happened in two of the recent big cat stories. They used their hands, fingers shoved in the cat's mouth, a rock, a bike, a tiny knife, their body weight. The cat considered all of them prey, considering their size. I mean, damn.

Armchair quarterbacking that is just silly.

Duragrouch

Don't misunderstand some comments. Those women did damned outstanding with the resources they had. Nevertheless, this can be a learning moment, just like many other bike mishaps or breakdowns in the middle of nowhere where you didn't have the right tool or spare and thereafter decided to carry such tool or spare. In this case, I don't want to overreact and recommend heavy artillery, but a 3.5" fixed blade knife might have been helpful, legal to carry, and very light. Also, with the advantage of prior thought and a few seconds between sight and attack, it might be good to lift the bike to put it between you and the cougar, one of the wheels in front of your face. When the local police in my city are standing guard against potential violence (in both directions) alongside protest marches, they are all bike police, standing behind their bikes, and I would bet they are trained to use the bike in a defensive manner.

downtube42

Makes sense.

I do think the amount of fight in a person is critical. I think the best thing for me to have with me, is a friend willing to fight for my life.