cleverbeefalo

Hi Y'all,

First post. It's been a pleasure reading through a lot of the old threads on this forum, learning as much as I can to get my Panasonic DX 3000 optimized for riding with modern components. As I've been diving more and more into these classic road bikes, I get the feeling that a lot of these bikes are overvalued by folks on FB Marketplace. I see a lot of bikes like a vintage Fuji with 27" wheels that will require new cables, tires, and bar tape just to test it out, and yet the seller is asking for $100-250

I'd like to know what others experiencing. Do you see a lot of overpriced vintage bikes that are in not-so great condition? What has worked for you in terms of explaining to sellers that the bike is not worth what they're asking for because by the time it's rideable it will cost as much as a newer-model bike with new tech already installed? Is it unreasonable to think I should be able to buy these up at $25-50?

I've added examples of what i'm talking about in my profile, if you wanna see the bikes I'm referencing.

SwimmerMike 

I've given up in trying to explain to someone their price makes no sense. I let the market/time clue them in. You won't convince them, but the lack of interest will.

merziac

Welcome aboard, glad you found us, sounds like you're in the right place.

Classtime 

The C&V market is not perfect. Right now, I believe that my for sale bikes are worth more than anyone wants to pay so I'm riding them. When I see something I want to buy, I always expect to pay the asking price and only haggle over stuck seat posts and stems.

daverup 

The bikes in your profile all seem like average models with better than average frame and paint condition. In this case, I don't really see why you'd want to modernize the components on one of these. To me they look like college bikes with minimum work to restore to rider condition.
If that is their target market then $100 isn't unreasonable. In my rural area, a $50 bike usually has a frame rust and bad paint issue. That's really the most important factor, where are the bikes being sold? Prices vary greatly, what your $100 buys isn't going to be the same everywhere.
Good Luck

cleverbeefalo

I think I'm reaching that point. I do fear what they will do when they've decided it won't sell.

Appreciate the welcome, Merziac!

RiddleOfSteel

I am of the mindset to let the price "come to me" and not try to harangue the seller, though that's partly because I don't like being a difficult person, regardless if driving a hard bargain is acceptable enough. Those asking prices are, in my experience, not the worst by a long shot. Maybe because I am fully setup to renovate/restore bicycles, I don't balk too much at that asking price, or...wouldn't if it was something I was looking for in my size. Yeah, those bikes will need a full going through ideally, but you could do just enough to get it running safely-ish for not much more than asking price.

Just like off-base sellers, we know that there will always be some buyers that have an inaccurate view of what things "should" cost and I won't ever try to convince them otherwise. It's 2024 and stuff is more expensive whether we like it or not. Deals are still out there. I like that Fuji, but there's "rideable condition" and then there's "safely rideable condition" which involves new brake calipers (dual pivot) and pads, etc. All three of those bikes are not worth much, even when fully and correctly overhauled. They'll be plenty serviceable and can be enjoyed, but their "performance envelope" will be modest unless components are upgraded.

But I guess, to answer your question, I do see a lot of overpriced bikes out there that need a suite of work to function properly, or need to be redone. I've bought plenty of "ready to ride, all tuned up" bikes that were marginally rideable or needed cosmetic work and new bar tape to be viable "ready to ride" bicycles. Or maybe that's just me who always sells a cleaned up, fully tuned and test ridden bike no matter the price point. If I'm going for a bike, it's usually the frame, and I make sure I'm happy with the price I pay even if all the other components are a loss. Big frames (ones in my size) in good shape with the features/tubing/characteristics I'm looking for are hard to come by, so that makes me a bit more flexible on the price I'll pay.

merziac

Good luck, I would encourage you to get a more modernish one to learn on, you will get an idea of what it takes to make the whole thing work.

Then you can get after a resto-mod with a better sense of whats up.

It can be a very hunt and peck process and you won't know what you really want until you have some missteps and learn from them.

It can be a long and winding road figuring out what you really want and it will require a fairly substantial outlay of tools and supplies, never mind the bikes and any preconceived notion about what they should cost can be a fools errand.

Step up if need be, don't cheap out, it will cost you in the long run.

cleverbeefalo

I prefer modern components, particularly brifters, and I find it fun to work on bikes. For example, the Fuji would be fun to change over to 700c wheels with fatter tires and cold set to 130 so I can get more gears. The Lotus would be similar. My perspective is, that Lotus at minimum needs cables, bar tape, tires, just to ride. Add that to the asking price and I'm at 150, and then what happens if there's an issue with one of the shifting levers or a derailleur? For that sort of risk to find out if the bike functions?

Location -- upstate NY, Rochester area, so no crazy metropolitan prices, but still seem a bit high.

Kabuki12

Yes, welcome!! The market is all over the place with the only bikes that are selling are bikes that are very low priced or bikes that are higher end with really top components. Even the high end bikes are selling for less than they were a few years ago. My attitude about bikes and prices is buy only what you plan to enjoy and forget what it may be worth. If you really enjoy tinkering and riding classic bikes , keep a look out as there are some very good deals right now.

cleverbeefalo

Out of curiosity, what's your plan when you can't ride the bikes anymore?

SurferRosa

A data point for you to consider ... I've over seventy C&V bike purchases and never test ridden any of them. I will ensure the stem/seatpost isn't stuck before purchase. They all get a full overhaul and usually new consumables throughout.

cleverbeefalo

Totally makes sense. I'm guessing that means you factor these costs into the purchase and only buy at a certain price?

jPrichard10 

And here I am, feeling like the market is so low!

When I look at these bikes, I'm mostly thinking about buying the frame. Rarely will there be the right mix of components that I want on it, so anything else just balances th cost if I can sell it or it can help finish another project.

And with that in mind, I think C&V frames are extremely undervalued give. Their modern equivalent. People are buying $500 or $600 frame sets (Soma, Velo Orange, Surly, etc) for lugged, double butter comply frames. Sure, there's a lot of low level vintage frames that should be $50 (or less) but even some new straight gauge hi ten (Public bikes, etc) are in the 200 range...

So I guess my take would be: C&V bikes suffer from price compression. The best and worst of C&V are priced within $100, and if you're patient you can run into a real gem for pennies (I got two hand built Reynolds 531 DB bikes for $75 total!).

albrt 

The market is also kinda screwed up because people went bike crazy during the pandemic and would pay $200 to $300 for basically anything with 2 wheels. I agree with jPrichard10 that the price range is very compressed. The value is at the higher end of the quality range, but only for somebody who actually wants that particular bike.

USAZorro

It works the other way too. I won't do e-Bay as a seller because in times past I've had a dealing with one unreasonable buyer (it was someone here who's been gone for many years now), and I don't want the hassle of dealing with one on that platform. That was my preface for what follows. Last spring I picked up a quite nice, mid-range bicycle and a mid-range frame. I kept some parts from the bicycle, and had been trying to find homes for the frames. One finally found a home, and I did strike a very satisfactory trade deal on one, but the other "should" sell for 3-4 times what I'm asking, but here it still sits.

I've been in the hobby since a couple months before I became a member here. A lot is different than it was then. Shipping increases have absolutely killed deals on frames and wheels/rims. I've gotten a few, but in the past 5-6 years, it's because the prices have been so low that shipping didn't push the overall cost into inaffordability. The other thing I've seen happen is that, whereas most interest was in bicycles of the 60s and 70s, with a little bit into the 80s, the interests have skewed to where it's mostly 80s and some 90s. Many of the people who used to jump at deals on 60s and 70s bikes are either downsizing, or are just not interested in another bike. Myself - I'm as opportunistic as I have been, but I am considerably more selective. It took a while, but I've given up any hopes that finding and selling will finance the hobby, and I rely more on trades and a slower timetable (where I am more likely to meet up with a compadre in person than was once the case).

I agree with SwimmerMike and RiddleOfSteel when it comes to local sellers on CL or Marketplace. Until you get to know them and establish trust, people tend to be resistant to some "expert" telling them their treasure is only worth a quarter of what they want for it. Providing them with "reality checks" is as likely to irritate them as it is to influence them to lower the price. If you're especially careful and tactful you may have better success. I simply won't bother unless it's something that I REALLY want. In my experience, it's easier to just wait for a different seller to put something up for a realistic price.

non-fixie 

Same here. At 250+ bike purchases I've only twice rejected a bike, because both sellers hadn't been upfront about their bikes' condition. When I make an offer I accept the risks and the consequences. Yes, I have been disappointed a few times, but more often than not I have been quite pleased with my acquisitions.

I will pay what a bike, or a frame, or a part is worth to me. That may be below or above what others perceive to be market value.

merziac

That will be a sad day and hopefully taken in stride.

I have several bikes that ride much bigger than they are and a full custom that was built with this fully in mind and will facilitate some of this with mods and who knows what other sundry hacking along the way.

Step through's and Ef-bikes will also likely get some consideration as well and hopefully I will still be futzing and wrangling as well.

merziac

Exactly this, a bird in the hand, etc, etc, yada, yada, blah, blah, blah.

I have had very few get away that I didn't want to, I've paid way too much and way too little many times, very, very few regrets and have far more than I should from being firm in my convictions, pulling the trigger and being very glad I did.

squirtdad

this is my plan if the body at some point does not cooperate, and similarly my custom was planned for the future also.... time will tell

No help for OP's question as I buy rarely, but gut feel is there would not be there will not be lot of people willing to sell for $25 or 50 for anything worth working on..

if truly doing a lot of flipping things like buy cable housing by the role and bulk cables is probably more effective than buying cheaper.... ever full cable kits are cost effective if you don't need highest quality

https://www.amazon.com/JAGWIRE-ROAD-...g-goods&sr=1-5
https://www.amazon.com/Universal-Bic...ds&sr=1-4&th=1

Classtime 

If that ever happens, they are worth $0.00 to me. My son may want to keep the Sachs as we have the same saddle height and there is a long red stem in the bin.

bargainguy

During the pandemic, bicycles were like toilet paper, the next thing you couldn't get.

As the pandemic weaned, people started selling off their pandemic bike purchases at firesale prices.

That took a huge chunk out of the used market, and prices tanked.

The combination of little to no demand in the used market + rising prices for consumables (tires, tubes, bar tape, etc.) makes it difficult to make any money these days as a reseller.

Most resellers are struggling to offload their stock before prices dip even further. It's a death spiral with no end in sight.

plonz 

There are plenty of us here that buy that buy a sub $200 bike for a good 531, SL or T1 frame. We then hang $400+ of modern componentry on it to hold our own on a local shop ride. Still cheaper than most used Ultegra or Dura Ace equipped carbon bikes with a lot more cool. Don’t expect to ever get the investment back out of it, just enjoy the ride.

Piff 

Final nail in the coffin has been the modern roadie fully transitioning to disc brakes. Those who are C&V curious aren't likely to be interested in investing into an old bike with parts that cannot be harvested and placed onto a new modern roadie. Thus even less demand for the old bikes.

That being said, I, like the others, will pay over 'market pirce' for a bike that I really want. The bike in the right size by the right maker in good condition will sometimes vanish right before your eyes if you wait for the price to drop.

smd4

I’ve spent $100 bucks for an axle, so no, $100 bucks for a bike doesn’t seem unreasonable to me.