Skipjacks

I agree.

No bike light is brighter than a car's headlight or tail lights. They are small, usually single LED. They are not brighter than halogen headlamps aimed at your face. They just aren't. So this idea that they are too bright for the road is silly.

As for them blinking....

I don't care what any research says. My real world experience (as a driver, not a biker) tells me I notice blinking LED bike lights MUCH further away than I notice constant on LED's. At least in the daytime.

I see both around town regularly. I always notice the blinking ones further off. The sold lights blend into the background at long distances, at least in a suburban area with 9000 other lights on signs, cars, stores, etc. Out on a country road in the middle of nowhere it might be different.

Skipjacks

Oh here's another thought on lighting...

Get 2 facing each direction

2 in the back. 2 up front.

I have a main light for each then a backup light that isn't nearly as effective, but is still good.

I try to keep them all charged. But more than once I have gotten home, went to turn off my lights, and found 1 of them had already turned itself off due to low battery. But I still made it home with lighting on the bike because of the backup.

Papa Tom

My feeling is that people equate flashing lights with police cars, ambulances, fire trucks, and other emergency vehicles. By law and by instinct, most drivers take notice when they see the flashing lights on these types of vehicles. As a very positive result (in my opinion) drivers react the same way when they see flashing lights on a bicycle.

However, remember that my original post was about DAY lighting. I'm not sure how effective or ineffective flashing lights would be at night.

Skipjacks

Flashers at night stand out to cars better than they do in the day time because the light is brighter compared to the background.

But flashers don't do much for lighting your path so you can see in front of you. I mean...unless you like that strobe lighting effect.

My Cygolite main headlight has the best of both words. It can be a solid on light for my visibility and ads a pulsing strobe once per second on top of the constant on light. So from a distance you see both the light and a flash.

Papa Tom

Yes. That "Steady/Pulse" mode was the deal-clencher when I bought my Cygolite, too. I find it more effective (and less offensive) than a constant strobe effect during the day. At night, I'd imagine it really gets the job(s) done.

no motor?

I keep a backup light on my handlebars set on strobe and use it like a horn when needed. The added light makes me stand out more and can be turned on and off easily.

RubeRad

(Since this thread has half turned into an intervention/referendum on Jim from Boston's quote-nesting...)

Should someone create a Poll post asking whether Jim from Boston should continue nesting or stop nesting? If the results were 90+% stop, would Jim do it?

RubeRad

Back to the OP, when you say 'daytime lights', you just mean running battery lights during the daytime?

Others have mentioned DRL by analogy from cars, that would imply to me getting dynamo lights&hub

FWIW I always blast my cygolite hotshot on random in the rear, in the front I run flash at dusk and steady medium in the dark (steady high if rolling fast downhill). Which means probably 3/4 of the year I don't use my headlight.

Papa Tom

Yes. I do not commute (or ride at all, for that matter) at night, so my Cygolite Hotshot 150 and Cygolite Metro 850 are solely for daytime use.

Korina

My understanding is that flashers at night make it difficult for drivers to discern exactly where the bike is and which direction it's moving.

I actually use dimmer solid lights in the dark, as there's less ambient light to compete with, and brighter, flashing lights when the sun is up and they bloody well should be able to see me. Then again, my commute is mostly rural, so YMMV.

davei1980

Agree 100 with the following caveats:

1. Rechargeable = best - you don't worry about batts going dead when you can just recharge when you get home. My helmet light isn't rechargeable but I am running LiON batts in it, better performance and lighter (seems to be a concern throughout this thread). Dynamo - even better but separate thread.

2. I tend to side with the late Sheldon Brown when he says, if it's bright enough to be a headlight, then it shouldn't blink. I am not married to this though.

3. I think blinking red on your rack or saddle sack and one on the back of your helmet + solid on front of helmet and handlebars = plenty but more cannot hurt as long as they're not confusing (different colors, etc).

In one day, I had a guy in a car flash his brights at me (as if to say my puny headlight was too much for him). On my way home, a woman passed me in a car, took the next pullout only so that she could tell me my taillight was out. Some people are good, some not. I think most of us on here are drivers too so we can do our best to see one another when we're on bikes too and brainstorm what works and what doesn't.

davei1980

Nested quotes don't bother me but I also don't take the time to read them since I don't fully understand them and they can be hard to follow but I think Jim should do what makes him happy, as should we all.

davei1980

Does Life Paint have a place in this thread? Anyone using? Experiences?

davei1980

I use my helmet light like this in this regard... I'll turn my head at traffic approaching from the rear if I feel like I am not seen and usually hear them slow down quickly.

Just took my 12 Y/O daughter for a nighttime ride last night and taught her that night riding can be fun and safe with the right equipment!

Here in the PNW, we're so far north that if you don't ride in the dark, you give up 1/2 the year.

noglider 

Jim, I don't read your posts, for the most part, because doing so takes too much effort. It's not that I don't understand them. My eyes don't want to make all those zigzags.

@Papa Tom, I don't think there is such a thing as too many lights. I think there is a point of diminishing returns, though I don't know where it is. Maybe it's at three or four lights. I do think there is such a thing as a light that is too bright, and that depends on how much ambient light there is. A beam should not shine directly into anyone's eyes, and some people don't even consider this or try to aim their lights well.

davei1980

hi beams on cars are no brighter than the low beams; they're just pointed up more.

Same as what you say, no such thing as too bright as long as it's angled properly.

KraneXL

Its not as much an issue of brightness as it is a function of a focus beam. Light has many characteristics so it take a bit of science and technology to get it right. By right, I mean illumination objects without blinding the other guy. FTR, its the edges of objects that are most important.

bpcyclist

Obviously, everyone sorta does this in his or her own way. I ride almost exclusively in the dark about eight months out of the year, every day. I do use a blinking/flashing, helmet-mounted 1100-lumen Cygolite during dawn, dusk, and daylight hours. I am no light testing expert, but based purely on a whole darn lot of city riding, running a flashing or blinking source that is fairly bright at dawn, dusk, or daylight hours absolutely increases my visibility to cars at a much longer distance than any kind of solid-on light of similar power does. There is no comparison, in my opinion.

At night, I run the helmet light on medium power. I like having a helmet-mounted light mostly because it allows me to shine a light source directly at the driver should he or she run a light or stop sign or just totally not see me--which obviously happens. All I have to do is turn my head and look at the driver and that quite bright light is shining right on them. It does get their attention and has saved me on more than one occasion. People run stop signs here all the time, unfortunately, so you have to constantly be aware.

I know we're supposed to be talking about daytime lighting here, so I won't bore you with the rest of my evening light setup except to say that I have two fantastic lights on my bars, neither of which do I use during the day ever. Oh, okay, maybe once in a blue moon when it is insanely dark during the day. But other than that, basically never. I just use the blinking helmet Cygolite. And a Hotshot 150 on the rear, of course, running day or night. It seems to work fine.

noglider 

I didn't say that, and I wouldn't, as I disagree. There is such a thing as too bright, but it depends on conditions, so I didn't speak of the matter. One problem with too bright is that you might get adjusted to the lit-up stuff, and you might not be able to see anything outside your beam.

On the other hand, maybe there is no such thing as too bright in the daytime. I don't know.

davei1980

You're so smart. Always the even keeled voice of reason and practicality

Archwhorides 

My 2 cents:

1. If you create such a poll about Jim's nesting, please include: "I don't give a sh*t" as an option. I certainly don't.
2. Also, if you form a poll asking: "If 90% of commuter forum respondents want to stop Jim from nesting quotes, do you think he would do it?", please include "I don't give a sh*t" as an option for this one too.

Phamilton

I don’t drive anymore but I did for 20 years before I went car-free/whatever. I’ve seen my headlight (450 lumens) and taillight (150) on another bike from inside my wife’s car at night. They’re blinding if not aimed down a little. If there’s any moisture on the windshield it’s worse, but generally I try to stay off the road and stick to the trails anymore when it’s wet/raining. I think lights can be too bright in certain circumstances but it may take someone with lots of driving experience to fully understand the effect
and adjust the light position/intensity to a level that’s both effective and safe for everybody. It’s real different when there’s a windshield in front of you. I run both headlight and taillight day/night, sometimes reduce intensity at night. I don’t really know how to quantify visibility in the day with/without lights, car drivers are used to seeing lights so I leave them on all the time. Like a best practice sort of thing. Good habit.

nomadmax 

Respectfully, I would submit that a post count of "over 6800" doesn't necessarily indicate success; especially if they all weren't understood.

RubeRad

Disrespectfully, my post count is bigger than yours (probably because my posts are shorter and I can crank 'em out quicker), and I probably have a higher read-percentage.

OK, rant over, Jim can post whatever he wants From Boston. Myself and others have told him many times that his communication style is ineffective.

But in the end, it's a free country, it's a free website, and he's certainly well-mannered and not in violation of any forum rules.

I think, really, we can see that Jim has things to say, and wants to express them, and spends a lot of work at expressing them, and we would like to receive what he has to say, but the receiving is too difficult. So it's really because, Jim, we like you, and want you to be in better community with you.

Papa Tom

And I was just feeling really awesome that this thread hadn't turned into a spit-fight yet.