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Rivendell Atlantis Build

Old 06-24-20, 04:09 PM
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elijahbc
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Rivendell Atlantis Build

I'm building a touring bike from a Rivendell Atlantis 55 frame. I'm looking for suggestions on A) the largest slick tires I can fit with fenders B) a drivetrain with the widest range of gear ratios I can get. I'm looking for durable components, am willing to spend money for the parts, and don't care much about weight.

The Atlantis 55 has a tire clearance: 2.4" / 61cm, chain stay length of 44cm, and cantilever brakes.

Tires + Fenders
Ideally I'd like to install Rene Herse 55 Antelope Hill tires with Gille Berthoud stainless steal 700c x 60mm fenders. Would this combo fit and function well?

If I install such wide fenders, would I be able to use linear-pull brakes such as Paul Motolite?

Drive train
I'm expecting to get a triple crank, and would prefer a 9-speed cassette. Is it possible to combine a 30-39-50T or 26-36-48T road crank with a mountain bike cassette like a 11-42T? I haven't seen a rear derailleur yet that would support such a drivetrain.


Thanks in advance!
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Old 06-24-20, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by elijahbc View Post
...

Drive train
I'm expecting to get a triple crank, and would prefer a 9-speed cassette. Is it possible to combine a 30-39-50T or 26-36-48T road crank with a mountain bike cassette like a 11-42T? I haven't seen a rear derailleur yet that would support such a drivetrain.
I don't think there's an RD that can properly manage that much chain. You can probably make if work as long as you avoid the extreme cross-chain gear combos. I'd get a 26-36-48T trekking/mountain crank, replace the 26t ring with a 22t, and a 11-36 or 11-34 cassette. That's a proven, wide range set up.
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Old 06-24-20, 07:00 PM
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Regarding fitting V brakes on a large fender over a large tire, this might help.
https://www.gravelbike.com/v-brake-arm-lengths/

Using that information, I bought the Tektro 857AL brake for my bike (not an Atlantas) because of the long 110mm arm length. My fender is 65mm wide and I often have 57mm wide tires on the bike.



I hope the photo is not confusing, i am running a Travel Agent on my brakes so I can use short pull brake levers.
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Old 06-25-20, 12:14 AM
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I currently have an 8 speed 11-40 cassette and 42/32/22 triple SRAM crankset on my 26r mtb. One can get a similar Shimano crankset. That is very very low. The 40T makes the derailer ride up a bit but it works. You can't cross-chain though. An 11-36 would be just as good for road use and will easily fit a stock detailer like Shimano Deore LT or XT. Reliable and cheap.

Last edited by Happy Feet; 06-25-20 at 12:20 AM.
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Old 06-25-20, 07:45 AM
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certainly a pretty frame with all the cool details in the lugs etc if you're into that.

what sort of bars are you thinking of putting on, which leads to what sort of shifters?
I very much second the suggestion of a 48/36/26, and ten speed setup with a deore rd, 11-36 cassette, gives you are really good range of gearing, and also as already suggested, its easy to change the 26 ring to a 24 or 22 for loaded riding.
My wifes bike uses this exact setup, deore fd and rd, with deore 10 spd trigger shifters--all tried and true, reliable, well working stuff.
If thinking of going dropbars, then you start to get into trouble depending on the shifters you are thinking of--but lets wait and see what you say.

I wouldnt recommend a 50/39/30 9 speed or any speed, if you do plan on riding with panniers or whatever. I ride a bike with this gearing, and when Ive used it for touring, this crankset is simply just a bit too high everywhere, hence the long established use of the smaller cranksets like 48/36/26.
A 48/11 or even 12 combo still gives you a completely high gear inch high gear that is totally sufficient for all real world downhills and tailwinds. Heck, my 44/11 on my 26in bike still gives me a spin out speed at about 50-55kph, which really means that in the real world, I can comfortably pedal at 40kph, which we all know is in the speed range that we never can hold for any length of time anyway...

your ss fender idea is surely for aesthetic reasons, but the sks silver fenders I have on one of my bikes look very nice and are much lighter, have the aesthetically pleasing silver colour and a strip of clear part down the middle which gives a nice pretty line down the middle of fender--but being sks chromoplastic material or whatever it is, its both very tough and light.
Just putting that out there as an option to think about if you start thinking of weight at all of various components. My fenders are for 26in wheels, up to about 45-50mm tires.

if going drop bars, consider Gevenalle shifters and hoods. A neat option and with model options that can easily run on all kinds of gearing choices--road, mtb, dynasis, regular 9 speed, etc. I have these on the forementioned 26in bike with dropbars.

get back with more info, cheers

ps, and of course, if the crankset is something you want to be aesthetically nicer than stock deore stuff, you then can still look into the spiffy cool stuff that have cool designs, those herse whatever ones etc, and being 9 spd or maybe 10, you can still play with fd and rd options , depending on shifter choices, bar choices etc.
I suspect this would be your choice given your whole aesthetic leaning by wanting this frame and your fender choice preference.

Last edited by djb; 06-25-20 at 09:46 AM.
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Old 06-25-20, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by elijahbc View Post
I'm building a touring bike from a Rivendell Atlantis 55 frame. I'm looking for suggestions on A) the largest slick tires I can fit with fenders B) a drivetrain with the widest range of gear ratios I can get. I'm looking for durable components, am willing to spend money for the parts, and don't care much about weight.

The Atlantis 55 has a tire clearance: 2.4" / 61cm, chain stay length of 44cm, and cantilever brakes.

Tires + Fenders
Ideally I'd like to install Rene Herse 55 Antelope Hill tires with Gille Berthoud stainless steal 700c x 60mm fenders. Would this combo fit and function well?

If I install such wide fenders, would I be able to use linear-pull brakes such as Paul Motolite?

Drive train
I'm expecting to get a triple crank, and would prefer a 9-speed cassette. Is it possible to combine a 30-39-50T or 26-36-48T road crank with a mountain bike cassette like a 11-42T? I haven't seen a rear derailleur yet that would support such a drivetrain.


Thanks in advance!
You can probably get some good feedback if you pose your question to the RBW Owners Bunch google group. It is a good resource.

On my Atlantis for loaded off pavement touring Iíve used 24/36/46 and 19/34/42 (using a mountain tamer) with a 12-36 9 speed cassette.
with the first I used a Suntour VGT rear derailleur and a Shimano Altus (very inexpensive) with the second because it wrapped more chain and has more ground clearance. For what I was doing, I preferred the second setup.
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Old 06-25-20, 10:43 AM
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heck, I'm going to have some fun spending this guys money

whatcha think of this beauty?
https://www.renehersecycles.com/shop...-triple-crank/
I'd put 48, 36, 24
with caveats though that he'll have to read up on depending on this and that and this and that

and for dropbar shinanigans:

https://www.gevenalle.com/product/gx/

go with ten speed, deore or whatever dynasys rd, front shifter is friction so will work with all kinds of triple fd's. My Genevalle bike has a 9 spd era triple xtr fd and Im sure anything would work.

12-30 for fun riding, 11-36 for touring

there, wallet probably a grand and somewhat bucks lighter, but the bike would look cool.
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Old 06-25-20, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by djb View Post
certainly a pretty frame with all the cool details in the lugs etc if you're into that.

what sort of bars are you thinking of putting on, which leads to what sort of shifters?
I very much second the suggestion of a 48/36/26, and ten speed setup with a deore rd, 11-36 cassette, gives you are really good range of gearing, and also as already suggested, its easy to change the 26 ring to a 24 or 22 for loaded riding.
My wifes bike uses this exact setup, deore fd and rd, with deore 10 spd trigger shifters--all tried and true, reliable, well working stuff.
If thinking of going dropbars, then you start to get into trouble depending on the shifters you are thinking of--but lets wait and see what you say.

I wouldnt recommend a 50/39/30 9 speed or any speed, if you do plan on riding with panniers or whatever. I ride a bike with this gearing, and when Ive used it for touring, this crankset is simply just a bit too high everywhere, hence the long established use of the smaller cranksets like 48/36/26.
A 48/11 or even 12 combo still gives you a completely high gear inch high gear that is totally sufficient for all real world downhills and tailwinds. Heck, my 44/11 on my 26in bike still gives me a spin out speed at about 50-55kph, which really means that in the real world, I can comfortably pedal at 40kph, which we all know is in the speed range that we never can hold for any length of time anyway...

your ss fender idea is surely for aesthetic reasons, but the sks silver fenders I have on one of my bikes look very nice and are much lighter, have the aesthetically pleasing silver colour and a strip of clear part down the middle which gives a nice pretty line down the middle of fender--but being sks chromoplastic material or whatever it is, its both very tough and light.
Just putting that out there as an option to think about if you start thinking of weight at all of various components. My fenders are for 26in wheels, up to about 45-50mm tires.

if going drop bars, consider Gevenalle shifters and hoods. A neat option and with model options that can easily run on all kinds of gearing choices--road, mtb, dynasis, regular 9 speed, etc. I have these on the forementioned 26in bike with dropbars.

get back with more info, cheers

ps, and of course, if the crankset is something you want to be aesthetically nicer than stock deore stuff, you then can still look into the spiffy cool stuff that have cool designs, those herse whatever ones etc, and being 9 spd or maybe 10, you can still play with fd and rd options , depending on shifter choices, bar choices etc.
I suspect this would be your choice given your whole aesthetic leaning by wanting this frame and your fender choice preference.
I plan on using drop bars with bar end friction shifters, currently thinking Dura Ace SL-BS77 if I go with the 9 speed. The Gevenalle shifters look interesting. Are they as reliable as bar end shifters? The shifting cables in my STI shifters on other bikes wear out every 2k miles or so.

I didn't think to just have an extra 22T chain ring to swap out before tours. Excellent idea.

For the fenders, I proposed the stainless steel fenders because I expect they would be more durable. Is this not the case? The aesthetic of the fenders is not a big priority for me. The frame carries the aesthetic already :-D
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Old 06-25-20, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN View Post
Regarding fitting V brakes on a large fender over a large tire, this might help.

Using that information, I bought the Tektro 857AL brake for my bike (not an Atlantas) because of the long 110mm arm length. My fender is 65mm wide and I often have 57mm wide tires on the bike.
Do I understand correctly that the longer the arm the less the cable needs to travel to engage the brakes?
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Old 06-25-20, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by elijahbc View Post
I plan on using drop bars with bar end friction shifters, currently thinking Dura Ace SL-BS77 if I go with the 9 speed. The Gevenalle shifters look interesting. Are they as reliable as bar end shifters? The shifting cables in my STI shifters on other bikes wear out every 2k miles or so.

I didn't think to just have an extra 22T chain ring to swap out before tours. Excellent idea.

For the fenders, I proposed the stainless steel fenders because I expect they would be more durable. Is this not the case? The aesthetic of the fenders is not a big priority for me. The frame carries the aesthetic already :-D
re friction shifting--for the front its great, quiet, exact etc, but I just don't get why folks even consider friction for the rear. I mean, from a reliability, properly working aspect, my 1991 tourer with dt shifters and indexed works as perfectly now as it did all those years ago. Every bike I've had since the late 80s sometime have had indexed rear shifting, and my experience is that its totally reliable.
Sure, sti can wear due to that sharp angle curve, but even then I find mine last a good long time, certainly more than 3000kms, but no matter, they can and do fray (and unseen out of sight )
The gevenalles are pretty much bar end units mounted on hoods. If your rd and everything is adjusted properly (ie not too much tension shifting to large cog) then I'd say that cables last teh same as with bar ends.
I chose them purposely to not use bar end shifters, didnt want sti's for the bikes use, and found them immediately intuitive and fine to use.
I like them but they are just another option.

re fenders, I find the chromoplastic or whatever it is to be a super tough material, but stainless steel is certainly a diff aesthetic, but Ive never had steel fenders, so dont really have an opinion on them.
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Old 06-25-20, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by elijahbc View Post
Do I understand correctly that the longer the arm the less the cable needs to travel to engage the brakes?
From your comment, I assumed you were concerned that a V brake might not fit on your large fender over a large tire. That was why I made the point about the brake arm length, if it is too short the cable or brake would rub on the fender.

I am using regular brake levers with V brakes, which you are not supposed to do but it can be done if you install Travel Agents. And there was a Travel Agent in the photo, that was why I mentioned the cable pull issue. If you get brake levers that have the correct cable pull for V brakes, you should be good with V brakes.

Perhaps I should have stayed silent on the Travel Agent and skipped the photo, perhaps the photo and reference to the Travel Agen may have added more confusion to the discussion?
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Old 06-25-20, 09:26 PM
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Originally Posted by djb View Post
re friction shifting--for the front its great, quiet, exact etc, but I just don't get why folks even consider friction for the rear. I mean, from a reliability, properly working aspect,
When the indexing went out on my LHT rear bar end shifter, I switched it over to friction to get by until I could change it. I was surprised at how nicely it shifter a 9 speed. I did grow up with friction shifting though. I found I preferred friction on the LHT better than the indexing, so I bought and installed the Silvers from Rivendell. I love them and have happily toured on them, and used it around town. I have no issues using friction with the 9 speed. It is much nicer than the indexed shifters I had, for my purposes.
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Old 06-25-20, 11:56 PM
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Originally Posted by phughes View Post
When the indexing went out on my LHT rear bar end shifter, I switched it over to friction to get by until I could change it. I was surprised at how nicely it shifter a 9 speed. I did grow up with friction shifting though. I found I preferred friction on the LHT better than the indexing, so I bought and installed the Silvers from Rivendell. I love them and have happily toured on them, and used it around town. I have no issues using friction with the 9 speed. It is much nicer than the indexed shifters I had, for my purposes.
If you are fine with it, just as if it's the preference of this fellow, great.
To me, as I too grew up with friction only bikes, and cars and motorcycles with manual chokes that one had to finesse to start and run, I'm fine with an extremely reliable system like indexing.
I also like it simply from a speed and performance thing, sure and fast and exact shifting .

​​​
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Old 06-26-20, 06:20 AM
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Originally Posted by djb View Post
If you are fine with it, just as if it's the preference of this fellow, great.
To me, as I too grew up with friction only bikes, and cars and motorcycles with manual chokes that one had to finesse to start and run, I'm fine with an extremely reliable system like indexing.
I also like it simply from a speed and performance thing, sure and fast and exact shifting .

​​​
I fully agree with you.

I think the three most important bicycle inventions in the past half century were (not in any particular order).
- Indexed shifting for rear deraileurs.
- Flashing red LED taillights that did not have bulbs that would burn out.
- Rear freehub hubs that replaced the old style freewheel hubs that had fragile axles.

I do not understand why some people choose to forgo indexed rear derailleur shifting and prefer friction, but when they make a choice based on past experience, I will not try to convince them otherwise.
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Old 06-26-20, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by djb View Post
If you are fine with it, just as if it's the preference of this fellow, great.
To me, as I too grew up with friction only bikes, and cars and motorcycles with manual chokes that one had to finesse to start and run, I'm fine with an extremely reliable system like indexing.
I also like it simply from a speed and performance thing, sure and fast and exact shifting .

​​​
It depends on your use. If I were racing, or simply wanted a racing type road bike, sure, for touring, I much prefer friction, on this particular bike. It is smoother than indexing, and I can make a jump from the small cog to the largest in one fell swoop if so desired, you can do that with indexed bar ends too. I never have to worry about indexing failing, I trim naturally, and easily, without even thinking. It just works well. As for accuracy in shifting, yeah, no problem with that. As for speed, see once again the fact you can move from the smallest to the largest cog with a quick flip of the lever, faster than the, click, click, click, click, click, click, click, click, of an indexed system, with the exception of bar ends, or the same shifter mounted as thumbies, or on the downtube. Had my indexing not broken, I would probably still be using it. Once it did break, I realized how much nicer friction shifting was, on this bike, for this purpose.

As for motorcycles, I have a Kawasaki Concours 14, and a Ural, so... the Ural is a 2014 with fuel injection though, but still, it's basically old school in every other measure, and it works, for its purpose.
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Old 06-26-20, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by elijahbc View Post
Do I understand correctly that the longer the arm the less the cable needs to travel to engage the brakes?
No, opposite of that. The longer the arm, the more cable pull needed.
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Old 06-26-20, 08:52 PM
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Originally Posted by phughes View Post
It depends on your use. If I were racing, or simply wanted a racing type road bike, sure, for touring, I much prefer friction, on this particular bike. It is smoother than indexing, and I can make a jump from the small cog to the largest in one fell swoop if so desired, you can do that with indexed bar ends too. I never have to worry about indexing failing, I trim naturally, and easily, without even thinking. It just works well. As for accuracy in shifting, yeah, no problem with that. As for speed, see once again the fact you can move from the smallest to the largest cog with a quick flip of the lever, faster than the, click, click, click, click, click, click, click, click, of an indexed system, with the exception of bar ends, or the same shifter mounted as thumbies, or on the downtube. Had my indexing not broken, I would probably still be using it. Once it did break, I realized how much nicer friction shifting was, on this bike, for this purpose.

As for motorcycles, I have a Kawasaki Concours 14, and a Ural, so... the Ural is a 2014 with fuel injection though, but still, it's basically old school in every other measure, and it works, for its purpose.
hey, if you're cool with using it, that's all that matters. As for multi gear sweeps, I have to say that I do occasionally appreciate this with my Gevenalle shifters on my touring bike.

remember I said I was an old motorcycle guy? So an Ural... very cool. I've only seen one in the flesh here in Montreal. Wow, fuel injection, but as you say, rest appears very old school. I started riding in the 70s so rode a bunch of that era bikes, which we look back on as with iffy brakes, suspension, chassis that did the hula dance in corners....
Those Urals really have a unique, 60s 70s aesthetic, not to mention the whole eastern bloc soviet thing gong on. Must be a hoot to ride. I've never ridden a sidecar bike, but have watched some sidecar racing trackside back when I did some production circuit racing in the 80s... now those guys are nuts!
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Old 06-27-20, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by djb View Post
hey, if you're cool with using it, that's all that matters. As for multi gear sweeps, I have to say that I do occasionally appreciate this with my Gevenalle shifters on my touring bike.

remember I said I was an old motorcycle guy? So an Ural... very cool. I've only seen one in the flesh here in Montreal. Wow, fuel injection, but as you say, rest appears very old school. I started riding in the 70s so rode a bunch of that era bikes, which we look back on as with iffy brakes, suspension, chassis that did the hula dance in corners....
Those Urals really have a unique, 60s 70s aesthetic, not to mention the whole eastern bloc soviet thing gong on. Must be a hoot to ride. I've never ridden a sidecar bike, but have watched some sidecar racing trackside back when I did some production circuit racing in the 80s... now those guys are nuts!
Yes, the Ural is a unique experience. It really brings a smile to my face. A sidecar is completely different to ride than a standard motorcycle. There is a bit of a learning curve, but it's so enjoyable.
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Old 06-27-20, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by phughes View Post
Yes, the Ural is a unique experience. It really brings a smile to my face. A sidecar is completely different to ride than a standard motorcycle. There is a bit of a learning curve, but it's so enjoyable.
I can imagine that the whole body language/body weight distribution differences must be really weird to adapt to compared to a regular bike. I'm sure that it will retain its value over time simply from a curio aspect. I dont remember the engine sound, I imagine it has an old beemer airhead sound to it? and bike movement when you blip, like with shaft beemers? Ive only ridden old bmw's a few times, last time was decades ago, a 900 I think.
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Old 06-27-20, 08:58 PM
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Originally Posted by djb View Post
I can imagine that the whole body language/body weight distribution differences must be really weird to adapt to compared to a regular bike. I'm sure that it will retain its value over time simply from a curio aspect. I dont remember the engine sound, I imagine it has an old beemer airhead sound to it? and bike movement when you blip, like with shaft beemers? Ive only ridden old bmw's a few times, last time was decades ago, a 900 I think.
You really don't notice the movement since it is sitting on three wheels, that and the fact it has a whopping 42 ft. lbs. of torque.
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Old 06-27-20, 09:39 PM
  #21  
djb
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Originally Posted by phughes View Post
You really don't notice the movement since it is sitting on three wheels, that and the fact it has a whopping 42 ft. lbs. of torque.
neat. What a funny going off on a tangent we're doing.

meanwhile Mr rivendale, thoughts on parts decisions?
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Old 06-28-20, 08:47 AM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by elijahbc View Post
Ideally I'd like to install Rene Herse 55 Antelope Hill tires with Gille Berthoud stainless steal 700c x 60mm fenders. Would this combo fit and function well?
Thanks in advance!
Sounds like an interesting build.
You dont fancy an IGH?

With regards the fenders, before you order them, decide on the likelyhood of you ever wanting to use a trailer like the Extrawheel.
The beautiful polished stainless steel Berthouds came in both drilled or undrilled back when I bought mine back around 2012.
I found when my build was complete and I attempted to utilise my Extrawheel trailer that the fender stays inhibited any trailer up/downward articulation more than about an inch rendering the trailer unsuitable for anything than the tamest tarmac work unsuitable for so much as jumping a curb.
I had to redrill/rebolt my rear fender stays higher up the fender, to induce the ability for approx 13 inch articulation, enabling some off road usage.
This left two, for me, unsightly holes where once the stays bolted, yet to be filled or hidden behind some red reflective tape.
My tip is grab the undrilled rear fender and mount the stays allowing for a potential trailer purchase.
Just a thought.

With regards tires/fender fitment.
The widest tires I could get under the 60mm Berthouds were my 2.35 x 700c / 60 x 622 Schwalb Big Apples which were a tight fit but dont rub ( and look great IMHO)
My Exiwolf knobblies in the same size dont fit.
For touring I've mainly utilised 2.00 x 700c / 50 x 622 Schwalb Marathon Mondials which fit no probs.

My Berthouds have been on my Ogre a long time now and have survived many miles of touring/commuting with some removal/refit for flights and when I want to utilise the Exiwolfs for purely off road.
If one or both suffered a catastrophic failure I'd replace them with the same in a heartbeat as I enjoy the aesthetic they offer my bike as well as the added utility for wet road riding.
Good luck with your purchase decision.
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Old 06-28-20, 10:05 AM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by djb View Post
neat. What a funny going off on a tangent we're doing.

meanwhile Mr rivendale, thoughts on parts decisions?
Yeah, we are really off on a tangent, but a fun one, for us.

I went with a Sugino XD2 46/36/24 Crankset on my bike. Rivendell has their own cranks now, Silvers, which can be had with 44/34/24.
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