jrstewart3

This has been repainted, so we need some help. S/N on top of seat tube D0126. BB is Italian thread. Campy dropouts.

oneclick 

Interesting.

The cheap campy dropouts contrast with fancy business in the top-tube.

mech986 

Almost kinda looked dipped rather than repainted.

dddd

It crossed my mind that it's an older frame with multiple modifications.

unworthy1

juvela has a feel for these elderly Italian frames. I think the serial number location and that forkcrown will be telling clues, there were several brands that used similar lugsets and everybody that did had the "bullet" stay caps, but don't see many with all this AND stamped Campy-branded DOs with internal TT cable routing, it's fairly unusual.

tailzdru

I've just purchased a supposed vintage De Rosa which looks to have similar features. I'm unsure about the ID of my frame too though, i'll post a pic once I hit 10 posts

juvela

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frame's lugset is Agrati "ROMA" pattern nr. 000.8020/U

upper head lug is item nr. 000.8024

lower head lug is item nr. 000.8023

seat lug is item nr. 023.8059

fork crown is from another Agrati lug ensemble, the "BRIANZA", and is item nr. 000.8038

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internal cable routing is fairly common in Italian frames going at least as far back as the 1920's. all examples recalled however exhibit a grommet around the holes. so suspect this case represents a reworking.

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serial number is of a format employed by Olmo but do not know if that maker ever employed this placement. Olmo serials with this format are usually marked on the seat lug.

here is an Olmo bicycle with the bullet seat stays and the Campag Sport ends. it's even the same orange colour. however lug pattern and seat binder arrangement is different.





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frame's Campag Sport ends set nr. 1010/1 -




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jrstewart3

Wow, Thank you everyone for the input on this I had not mentioned the mix of components initially. mainly because I suspected many were not original.

Rear Derailleur - Campy Nouvo Record
Front Derailleur Campy Nouvo Record
Crankset Campy Nouvo Record
Brake calipers Shimano Durace
Brake levers Campy Aero ( with non aero hood :-(
Headset we Shimano
hubs are campy Record ( I think)
Mavic tubular rims

Goal is to rebuild to a good functioning Italian bike, not a totally restoration.

juvela

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frame appears to be one which would have been one to one and one half notches above the base in a manufacturer's range of production road machines

so none of the fittings mentioned would have been original to the bicycle

one fairly large producer who made extensive use of the Agrati "ROMA" lug pattern was Garlatti. their frames had these bullet seat stays. their dropouts were similar but they employed the Agrati version of the Campag Sport. cannot ever recall seeing a Garlatti product made with the Agrati "BRIANZA" pattern fork crown however. which of course does not mean that none exist...

the blue overspray visible on the steerer is a stock colour used by Garlatti at one time.

the manufacturer liked to place guides for the rear brake cable housing on the underside of the top tube. you could check this area to see if there is evidence of their removal in the form of brass traces and/or saw marks.

you could try looking at some Garlatti cycles online to see if you can find a similar one.

we have not received a report as to whether or not there is evidence of head emblem fastener holes being filled in.

date looks as though it may be somewhere near to 1970. w/b mounts a definite add-on. shift lever bosses may be an add-on as well.

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MauriceMoss

Unfortunately, there were many, many bikes manufactured in Italy that are very similar to this frame that it's kind of tough to say who may have made it.
Internal cable routing wasn't uncommon when this frame was made but it does look more like a mod than original work.
On this mystery frame, I would expect to see internal cabling finished off with a 'grommet' like this one (from an older, 1951 frame):





Also, it looks like both orange and purple are respray colors. Is there a light blue I see inside the seat lug? Maybe that's a remnant of the original?

Don't know if this will help or not, but the serial number format and position (and the almost home-made style) reminds me of numbers on some Bartali badged frames. Here are some examples I've come across:




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There were Bartali frames with bullet seat stay caps and internal cable routing as well.

Judging by the age of the mystery bike here (and if this was a Bartali badged frame), it would be from the Fratelli Margherita period rather than the Santamaria (which ended in mid-50s), although Bartali could have contracted other builders later on as well.

robertorolfo

Nothing to contribute, just want to thank juvela for all of this knowledge he is sharing... (and hopefully he isn't Juventino)

jrstewart3

First I want to thank everyone for their input here. I am not sure if I stated this, but this bike was donated to our non profit coop in Rochester, NY. When it came in it had a mixture of components that had probably been changed over the years. Mainly Nouvo Record front and rear derailleurs, and a NR crankset. Calipers were very early Durace, and levers were something else. Headset was a shimano 600.

Not knowing exactly what it is, and the fact that it had probably had several modifications over its life, we decided to do what I would consider a resto-mod. Objective was to save one more old bike, and come up with something that looked great and worked well.

At this point, the frame is a nice blue metalic. In addition to the NR derailleurs and crankset, we came up with a campy headset, brakes and levers. Wheels are mavic 700c, and hubs are campy. (think record)

Since we are not sure of the make, we will put white campagnolo decals, and finish with white housing and bar tape..

Pictures to follow soon.

Thank You again.. John