CyclesMakaron

A public announcement:
Anyone who can get additional photos and information from this vendor is asked for help - I can't do that on ebay.
In return, I can write that the seller's description is slightly out of line with reality... in several places...
The bike is easy to find, a bit striking - price and chrome
Thank you

cb400bill

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Eddy-Merckx...0AAOSw5j1e~Med

cudak888 

Here's the seller's Flickr album of the bike, CyclesMakaron. Let me know if you want any specific photos, and I'll ask:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/189147081@N02

-Kurt

CyclesMakaron

Thank you very much !
A gentle comment to the description provided by the seller:
- the frame was built in 1981
- the SP is unlikely to be used in this frame size
- It is certainly not the only chrome-plated EMC frame (it is not even the earliest fully chrome-plated)
- it's not a "debut" frame in the US since Ochsner Chicago sold Merckxes for sure in 1982 (some sources indicate early 1981)
- "built by De Rosa"... ...is not confirmed.
- I don't think I would have bragged about the bicycle from two years ago at the Milan fair, especially since there are "significant upgrades": cables under BB cover, FD mount, slope fork crown...
The only sensible explanation is... the confusion of 1983 and 1981 - the bike would fit perfectly into that earlier date
I'd love to see some of the extra photos that the seller mentioned... ...sales records, "article" and a happy collector...
Besides, it is a beautiful bike!

cudak888 

I somehow doubt the seller wrote the description. The response I received did not have the same attention to grammar or punctuation as the listing.

I've asked for photos / proof of provenance documents.

-Kurt

tricky 

Maybe this is a commission situation and the owner wrote the listing? And I am surprised they aren't providing proof of provenance right off the bat.

cudak888 

FYI CyclesMakaron - the Flickr article has been updated with provenance documents. The original bike shop had a hand-written hang-tag referencing the Milan show. Receipt shows purchase in 1982, which correlates your 1981 theory.

According to the shop, it was a "Paris & Milan Bike Show Special." Anything else further to that is not correlated by anyone other than Morgan Woods' own typed-up list. Even his quote in Bicycling magazine says of the bike, "Supposedly, it's made by DeRosa."

The documentation here proves little more than that it might have been something that made the show circuit in 1981. Obviously, not even Woods could substantiate Ugo's involvement.

I requested further documentation regarding Ugo's involvement - aside from documents authored by or originating from Mr. Woods' claims.










-Kurt

jiangshi

I think your translator messed up your post.

The cabling is over the bottom bracket, and it is a flat crown fork, it has a clamp on front derailleur. I would expect a script seat stay, rather than an EM.
The serial number seem to be:

E
1212

E
3
Hard to see for sure


Unusual, eh?

cudak888 

Can you fill us in on the earlier full-chrome bike?

Especially if I go head-to-head with the seller to debate provenance.

-Kurt

ramzilla

Wow. A true item of unobtanium.

cudak888 

EDIT: Seller did respond:

Fellow contradicts himself with the fork crown. My reply:

-Kurt

SoccerBallXan

Phishing for a buyer I'd suppose... Yucky price.

jiangshi

CyclesMakaron is likely fast asleep at this time of day.

I anxiously await his interpretation of the serial number. That is one I've never seen.

jiangshi

A wealthy collector could buy this bicycle and get it for nothing, after tax deductions and finagling that isn’t available to most of us commoners.


I anxiously await CyclesMakaron verdict, and hope posts translate well for him.

CyclesMakaron

I don't want to offend anybody, but this whole story...it doesn't make sense.
What we should see in EM show bike:
-1981: what we see in this bike - FD clamps, cable above BB cover, flat fork crown, dropout Porta Catena, old EM-logo stickers
-1983: FD mount, cable under BB cover, slope fork crown, newer dropouts, new EM-logo stickers design
Factory marking: F3 E1212 (or 1412) are not unique, it was already standard in 1981
There is no question of a "prototype" or the "first production bike" - a minimum of 2200 pieces were previously built...
The documentation...
...is seriously questionable:
- orange receipt: no serial number, no date, no identification of the author, size 55 (in fact 53cm c-c), information about Milan and Paris, no information about New York... there is no confirmation of authenticity and no link to "our frame" and its description
- a receipt from Conrad: 6/5/82 - no logical connection to "our frame" (except for the lovely Eddy Merckx note...), and "Morgan Woods".
- a receipt from Branford: 6/8/82 - it definitely shows Eddy Merckx's frame... but which one? No serial number, no chrome info... no connection to "our frame" except for "Morgan Woods".
- May 1989 article about a collector: no specific information is given (which fair, in which year), the bike "on the shoulder" is not a Merckx... ...and the suggestion that Ugo De Rosa built the frame... a classic
- bicycle inventory (1993): the only source containing information on 1983 and Milan... without serial number, but "made for Eddy by Ugo De Rosa, his first production bike"... there is no evidence of the information contained in this description, except for "Morgan Woods".
- I'd love to see a 1993 (or later) sales contract, preferably with a serial number - that would explain a lot
Summary:
- It seems impossible to buy a bicycle in 1982 after the Milan Fair in 1983... I think so...
- the story is very "colorful" and confusing: 80% of the "information" is not confirmed at all (in the seller's version of the events) - all these New York, Columbus SP, unique markings, Ugo De Rosa, the only EMC chrome frame...
- if it was a 1981 Milan bike show...Branford would probably be the last place I could expect it...but it's possible
- and it's a beautiful bike... and it's a bit overrated...about 600%...

repechage

It is a nice chrome Merckx.
chrome is rare on a Belgium bike.
lots of disposable income needed to spend it on this. Never be recouped

CyclesMakaron

Absolutely right, the Belgian bikes were usually "painted" with chrome... this was later changed by EMC, but mostly in export copies
In this respect, "our hero" matches the theory of the "fair bike"
Other "unique and only chrome-plated" EMC
1. false fork and stickers, E1465


2) Pista + lego


3) "fake" Corsa (rechroming - cost $200, I don't know when )

CyclesMakaron

There have just been sensational changes in the description (and price!) of my last favourite bike... But I'm afraid that it's the real state we're approaching very slowly.
Most of the "inaccuracies" have been bravely repeated, but the undisputed winner is the Milan Fair in 1982... which did not take place.
Since 1957, the Milan Fair (EICMA) has been held for more than 40 years exclusively in the odd years (and always in November) - so in the case of our hero, only 1981 is involved... and only until 1981 the 1982 bills (and the year of production of the frame) "fit" - unfortunately, the date 1983 on the documents (insurance with a valuation of $4500 - wow) does not fit... which have not yet been shown
If I'm so petty, I don't like the lack of Eddy Merckx engravings on seat post and stem... on a show bike? I doubt that...

P!N20

Link to current auction page: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Eddy-Merckx...0AAOSw5j1e~Med

CyclesMakaron just saved us $14k!

kermie

Wow, that was quite the price drop.

Homebrew01

Bike is a "Meh" to me.

Munny

Again again, reading this vintage cycling legend about belgian painted chrome : "the Belgian bikes were usually "painted" with chrome"

Although some brand used to do this, they were only generalists looking for easy profit.
How many different Belgian bikes or brand, predating the EMC production would you need to be convinced?
10, 20 ? More?

Actually my attention was attracted by some of the pictures of the fake unique chromed examples that you show.
EM bikes attract an unjustified attention and prices that are not justified.
I have difficulties to understand those who collect them and in your examples, I can recognise the example #1 and likely the #3 .
I can only say that some are collecting mistakes.

CyclesMakaron

That's why I wrote "usually" and didn't write "always" and "all" Belgian bicycles have never been (until the time of the EMC) "export hits" and only then would chrome plating make economic sense
Of course, I ask for more than 20 brands of Belgian bicycles that were mass-produced (say 5000 units per year) and covered with real chrome before the 1980s.
Will you allow everyone to justify their attention to EMC? And spend his money on this "overrated" brand?
"Difficult to understand" should have been in the human rights directory long ago...
...because how can you not collect EMC?
...I don't understand...

CyclesMakaron

If I were to create a good "legend" for this bike and these "documents"... ...it would look like this:
- a frame built in the summer of 1981 (ok)
- Paris Fair: September 1981 (ok)
- Milan Fair: November 1981 (ok)
...confirmation: an orange card...
- National Sporting Goods Assn. Convention & Show: February 1982 - Chicago (ok)
...the EMC representative in the US at the time is Ochsner... Chicago. (ok)
...and indeed it could be a "US premiere"... (this is, by the way, the most interesting thread of the whole story)
- then the bike goes to Conrad/Branford, who sells it to a collector (ok)
- The collector knows when and what he bought, but until 1993 there is an involuntary and accidental change in the date of the European fair from 1981 (nobody wrote it down) to 1983...
...no decorations or questionable accessories (De Rosa, "the only chrome", "first production", etc.), only "beautiful" and "unique"...
The only weak point: the listing of the account item in Brandford... I can hardly imagine selling a unique complete "fair bike" in separate items like
"engraved parts"... but I don't know about that.
Nice story...

alexihnen 

I’m trying to find my correspondence with the previous seller, but can’t seem to locate it. This bike, and two others, were listed for $3,000 for all three recently. IIRC it was an older man in Florida. I nearly bought all three, but didn’t feel like holding them and relisting. The listing included some of the claims of the current listing. I’ll try to find more. I don't begrudge someone making $ on a flip - I do it, but that I'd share what I know.