ColonelSanders

Unless they starting selling the frame set, that seems a strange reason on a complete bike.

ksryder

I mean, that was their explanation. I offer no opinion on whether it's a *good* explanation.

ColonelSanders

Fair enough.

Metieval

at this price point, people have extra wheels that have value?

aside from the QR/thru discussion.

Why would I want a 24 lb 10 oz AL bike when I can find steel bikes for close to that? The 650 Journeyman Sora is 26 lbs putting it in Specialized Sequoia territory, which does come with thru axle. But the Trail sucks on the Sequoia (my opinion).

The 700 rode nice, so if the 650 rides as nice, maybe I should take the Journeyman Geo and get a custom Ti frame made.

Anita Handle

For *me*, this bike is appealing because it was designed for two very different wheel configurations, it hits a great pricepoint and seems to have a geometry oriented towards shred vs road. It would be a N+1 bike, so "entry level" is not a problem for me. I don't have a problem with QR. I have a 160mm carbon wonderbike with thru axles and such but I also have an old high end steel 26er with QR and rim brakes that I still find enjoyable to ride. The only time I've noticed noodle front wheels is when I had a SID back in the day. WOW that thing was a noodle. My 26er with a Wily steel fork and QR feels compliant but not noodley.

I instantly thought "ooh, I could get the 27.5 version and then I have a nice, light 29er wheelset that I could throw onto this thing and shed some weight, rotational and otherwise, for 29er mode."

First choice would have been a 15mm thru, because that is most widely used mtb standard. I almost put QR and 12mm thru on the same level because I don't think there are end caps to convert my DT Swiss 240 to 12mm.

Which steel bike can you get at 22-24 pounds that is $1100?

This Salsa looks *really* good to me. The nitpicking in this thread is really weird to me.

Metieval

If $ is an argument, why are You buying/riding $1,100 when you can get a walmart bike for Less $?

Sorry I am not *amused* with the entry level price point arguments.

I've compromised on bikes before, I am not going there again. N+1 is irrelevant. Salsa/Surly/All-city all have a cult like following. They release something and all fall down on their knees. Except us that nitpick, and then we get called weird for calling out the flaws.

I have yet to see a dual wheel/tire size bike that didn't compromise one or the other or both!!! be it Pneumatic trail, or wheel flop. Being able to fit a tire is one thing, how it actually rides is another.

As per your question on steel, Does it have to be a new bike? I mean we are talking QR that goes back to what year?
I mean I built a steel 1x XT hybrid with Magura post mount hydraulic rim brakes for less than 700 which included powder coating. I chose flat bar, but had I converted it to drop bar, it'd still cost less that the Journeyman, and weigh in at 25 lbs. Sorry I don't get excited about yesterdays technology on bikes released today.

mstateglfr 

I built up my gravel bike, a 65cm steel frame Black Mountain Cycles, with mid grade components and it weighs 23.5# with pedals and bottle cages.
105 hubs that arent light, basic name brand aluminum stem and seatpost, brooks c17 saddle even. 2x11 crank mated to a an 11sp widereange cassette too, so not the lightest.

It cost $1225 and i could have easily built it up just as nice for $1100.
That a big frame too.

ColonelSanders

How tall are you?

Anita Handle

But you *liked* the bike, didn't you? Lol. When you questioned why one would get this 25 lb aluminum bike when you can get a steel for "that", I assumed you were comparing new bikes and that "that" was referring to the price.

Comparing this new bike to all possible bikes that can be assembled from one's parts closet seems to make any comparison somewhat useless. Just ride what bike makes you happy, in that case.

What is more interesting to me is how this compares to other newly manufactured bikes for the same targeted market.

Which bikes, still in production, does this compare to and how is it better or worse?

I've been eyeballing the Breezer Inversion, Surly Midnight Special (seems like a different type of bike), All City gorilla monsoon (looks smoking hoy but out of my price range) , Raleigh Willard, Raleigh Stuntman...

HTupolev

There is a grey area between "I will go for the cheapest option that moves forward when I push on the pedals" and "I will happily burn through my entire life savings and credit to improve anything on this bike in any way possible."

Metieval

I bought a $1,100 entry level bike before. a Trek Crossrip. The fork flexes, it twist it's QR and it just sucks. IT is also 24 lbs. Aluminum. the Frame also flexes at the BB,
So aluminum (cheap al.) will flex, be noodles, plus vibrate and jolt the heck out of you on a 40c tire even!! Much of this you won't know until you've taken it 70+ miles on freeze cracks or 40 + miles of gravel.

My alloy Synapse on a 25's was worlds more comfortable on the long rides.

So Salsa relaxes you a bit more, you won't notice the flex because you can't be as aggressive. you're sitting up more, you won't feel the shoddy front? doesn't mean its better. It just means you'd be as comfortable on a sit up city cruiser.

It (700 Journeyman) was a nice on a paved parking lot. I'd like to hammer it on some shoddy broken pavement and gravel. More so I would like to feel one on 650x47 slicks. Is it a truly able to run both wheels well?

I can buy a Norco Search XR-steel frameset/carbon fork (thru axle) for $900. Had Salsa offered a carbon thru axle fork with this in a frameset option. Then they are being competitive. wtb i19 dime a dozen they suck! formula hubs suck, ST bb and FSA, lol uhhh I have a few that are worthless, no one wants them. the new Sora isn't bad, but it isn't great either. promax brakes? ouch! I have some bb5's sitting around too...

I wouldn't waste my $ on a Midnight special either, 4130 is Walmart material.

just saying by the time a person upgrades the wheels, the brakes, the BB and Cranks, its not an entry level value anymore, its a bit of coin that uhh has QR.

but hey Salsa, QBP lets sell something that needs upgrades, and then makes a killing selling parts. It's a marketing scam. Preying on the newbies. or the n+1 crowd.

Metieval

not so grey, as it applies to the Journeyman.

and then the New guy will be like QR sucks, and start all over again after Salsa and QBP made bank roll on them.

Anita Handle

Alright, I might not with you on all of your positions (4130 being Walmart bike material, for example) and I do believe that the stiffness of a front end has more variables than just the axle type, BUT you do bring up valid concerns about the axles and component spec so I will attempt to see what I could put together with my existing wheels and brakes, a new gravel frame an appropriate drivetrain.

I don't know road parts well so it's a bit overwhelming to make sure I'm picking parts that will actually work but it's worth a shot.

The first thing I can't figure out is why doesn't DT Swiss make an end cap that converts 20mm oversized to 12mm. They make them for qr and 15mm. They make 12mm conversion caps for their road hubs. I guess hub width?

What's a good drivetrain for such a bike? Let's say I pick 105, are the disc brake calipers part of the brifter package?

Are brakes for "flat mount" physically different from the common mtb brakes (post mount)?

fietsbob

wally more like 1017. mild steel... 4130 is a standard chro moly ANSI designation

they are, but if you have the flat mount brakes, there are adapters to put them on post mount and ISO to post mount

adapter on an adapter .... frames ... see TRP website..






....

cs1

Nothing wrong with a square taper. 99% of what the industry calls advanced technology is useless for the average rider.

Metieval

there is a bigger issue with this bike than the QR/thru axle issue.

LOL, Lets just say that combined with a Square taper.... it's going to equal major suck for anyone other than the casual once or twice a month rider.

It will also Equate to a Vibration that resonates through the frame that the rider will never get rid of, ever! No amount of tire volume will fix it.

ksryder

Stop beating around the bush, how do you really feel about this bike that no one is forcing you to buy?

Metieval

keep buying junk, they'll keep selling junk......

your purchases influences the market. at least start buying bikes from people that don't drink pabst. Pabst apparently has made them not so smart.

Roadrash3

I love this bike, yes spend money and have lots of other options, I love my Salsa Cutthroat and warbird much more. But this bike is perfect for those looking at getting into bike packing or anything similar even gravel riding but don't have the money to spend on a more expensive bike. I got the bike as we camp once a month and I am always worried about my nice bikes getting stolen or ruined with the California Coastal weather which rusts everything. So I got the 650B Journeyman and its perfect, everything could be upgraded, but doesn't have to be, its a price point to get into the game and have a blast. I joined a Facebook salsa journeyman group and many others love this bike. If you don't like it, don't buy it, but for many, this bike will mean a lot to them.

Metieval

have you looked at the bottom of it?

Bikes direct has bikes with higher quality and better engineering

09box

Looks like an alright bike for the money. Don't think I'd buy it but good bike for the masses.

mstateglfr 

Why would a square taper BB mean ridibg sucks for everyone but the most casual of riders?
I have square taper on 4 bikes and ride them a lot. They are regular riders for me.


Really not sure why qr combined with square taper would matter either.

Metieval

The bigger issue, you'll see when you flip the bike over and look at the bottom. that issue + ST is serious BB flex


They did the same thing Trek did, and Swapping to outboard bearings didn't fix it. It also causes some serious AL. frame Vibrations that are annoying.

but hey it's entry level, sell a bike, sell upgrades, then sell a new bike.. its great marketing. more money for QBP, and Salsa to go buy beer with. You're money.

Metieval

you know that doesn't mean jack...
a lot of people ride walmart bikes... a lot lol

mstateglfr 

There may be a bike at walmart made with cromoly tubing, but that hardly means 4130 is walmart material.

Its like claiming drywall nails are walmart material just because walmart sells drywall nails.
Or that LED tvs are walmart material just becausr walmart sells LED tvs.

4130 tubing can be excellent, it just depends on the butting and build.
Tange Chamipin tubing was cromoly for goodness sake.


But yeah, 4130 is walmart material. Brilliant.