Do road cyclists make better motorcyclists?
05-19-16, 09:48 AM
#101
Senior Member
It's the same with the flashy blinkie drunk magnets. Call it target fixation or moth effect it's all the same.
05-19-16, 11:47 AM
#102
Kit doesn't match
I've been mulling this over since the original post a couple of weeks ago. I feel like I should have a good idea, since I rode motorcycles since I was 15, for about 10 years nothing but. Everything from trials bike to 1000cc, a bit of motocross racing. I was inclined to say it makes for a better cyclist, and vice versa, but honestly I don't think so. Riding motorcycles and bicycles are vastly different. I think that there's not a lot of cross-over in skills, judgement or even in handling and balance.
.I have ridden ~100,000 miles on motorcycles, but only ~15,000 on a bicycle. When I started cycling seriously a few years ago, I noticed that I was tapping my experience from motorcycling in several ways. A few that come to mind are how to choose braking points, how to target an apex, how to "look through" corners, how to survive gravel piled up in corners, and so on; stuff that @Lazyass pointed out. Plus there's the situational awareness that others have mentioned, such as not trusting drivers to stop when and where they are required, and pretty much assuming we're invisible to many motorists ('cagers,' heh).
Last edited by GuitarBob; 05-19-16 at 01:43 PM. Reason: 'braking' not 'breaking' (eye roll)
05-19-16, 01:19 PM
#103
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I just remembered this anecdote. After riding motorcycle for a few years and not being on my bike in a long time during that stretch I did something that made me a worse cyclist as a result of riding motorbikes.
I was pedaling along and I needed to stop, it was not an emergency stop but a quick stop. So motorcycling instinct came in and I popped the clutch. Except on the bicycle it was not the clutch but front brake. I almost endod.
I only made that mistake once.
I was pedaling along and I needed to stop, it was not an emergency stop but a quick stop. So motorcycling instinct came in and I popped the clutch. Except on the bicycle it was not the clutch but front brake. I almost endod.
I only made that mistake once.
05-19-16, 01:36 PM
#104
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Funny, I've been ruminating over this too and came to somewhat of the opposite conclusion .
I have ridden ~100,000 miles on motorcycles, but only ~15,000 on a bicycle. When I started cycling seriously a few years ago, I noticed that I was tapping my experience from motorcycling in several ways. A few that come to mind are how to choose breaking points, how to target an apex, how to "look through" corners, how to survive gravel piled up in corners, and so on; stuff that @Lazyass pointed out. Plus there's the situational awareness that others have mentioned, such as not trusting drivers to stop when and where they are required, and pretty much assuming we're invisible to many motorists ('cagers,' heh).
.I have ridden ~100,000 miles on motorcycles, but only ~15,000 on a bicycle. When I started cycling seriously a few years ago, I noticed that I was tapping my experience from motorcycling in several ways. A few that come to mind are how to choose breaking points, how to target an apex, how to "look through" corners, how to survive gravel piled up in corners, and so on; stuff that @Lazyass pointed out. Plus there's the situational awareness that others have mentioned, such as not trusting drivers to stop when and where they are required, and pretty much assuming we're invisible to many motorists ('cagers,' heh).
Riding motorcycles since 1975 and bicycles since 1982. Motorcycling definitely helps cycling.
05-19-16, 04:19 PM
#105
well hello there
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Same thing with me. You know how much nerve and talent it takes to race motorcycles and just like you, the thought of getting hurt when a car would appear out of nowhere from a side street...one slip..one inattention and pull out, and in a blink of an eye, a motorcycle rider's life is changed. I lost my nerve for street riding as well..or putting it another way, not nerve in myself, but no doubt like you, belief that car drivers can hurt us beyond any level of our control. I always tried to ride with a level of vigilance that would compensate for other's errors until I realized this wasn't possible. I did't want to donate an arm or a leg or inherent metal plates in the process. I didn't want to be that guy and they are everywhere.
Too bad about the double standard. If cars were as dangerous as motorcycles, we would all be safer because car drivers would be more careful. Reality is, most auto drivers get a do over every time they make a mistake because they are surrounded by a cocoon of metal.
Cheers brother.
Too bad about the double standard. If cars were as dangerous as motorcycles, we would all be safer because car drivers would be more careful. Reality is, most auto drivers get a do over every time they make a mistake because they are surrounded by a cocoon of metal.
Cheers brother.
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Two wheels good. Four wheels bad.
05-19-16, 04:21 PM
#106
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Not exactly on point, but I believe that when my son first learned to drive, he was a much better driver because of his many years of cycling experience.
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05-19-16, 05:44 PM
#107
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Funny, I've been ruminating over this too and came to somewhat of the opposite conclusion .
I have ridden ~100,000 miles on motorcycles, but only ~15,000 on a bicycle. When I started cycling seriously a few years ago, I noticed that I was tapping my experience from motorcycling in several ways. A few that come to mind are how to choose braking points, how to target an apex, how to "look through" corners, how to survive gravel piled up in corners, and so on; stuff that @Lazyass pointed out. .
.I have ridden ~100,000 miles on motorcycles, but only ~15,000 on a bicycle. When I started cycling seriously a few years ago, I noticed that I was tapping my experience from motorcycling in several ways. A few that come to mind are how to choose braking points, how to target an apex, how to "look through" corners, how to survive gravel piled up in corners, and so on; stuff that @Lazyass pointed out. .
I feel even more difference there. Drivers behave differently around bikes and motorcycles, and most of the patterns and reactions I was used to on motorcycles didn't apply very well. Some don't follow traffic laws very well with respect to motorcycles, but more seem to not at all with bicycles.
05-19-16, 05:53 PM
#108
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Mine drives like he's racing. Not a good thing and why I won't let him have a motorcycle - neither will the USAFA :-)
05-19-16, 06:06 PM
#109
Senior Member
To me, all of that is different on a bicycle, a different mechanism. That engine gives us options we can't even think about on a bicycle. Cornering is different, balance is different, acceleration is different.
I feel even more difference there. Drivers behave differently around bikes and motorcycles, and most of the patterns and reactions I was used to on motorcycles didn't apply very well. Some don't follow traffic laws very well with respect to motorcycles, but more seem to not at all with bicycles.
I feel even more difference there. Drivers behave differently around bikes and motorcycles, and most of the patterns and reactions I was used to on motorcycles didn't apply very well. Some don't follow traffic laws very well with respect to motorcycles, but more seem to not at all with bicycles.
As for the street, same thing. The basics such as pay attention to what you're doing and assume drivers will do something dumb apply. Beyond that, not so much. On a motorcycle you are travelling as fast or even faster than a car. On a bicycle, that doesn't happen very often.
05-20-16, 07:45 AM
#110
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Bikes, motorcycles, cars...I think if you do one, it can help you with the others. But obviously, there are nuances for one that don't occur in the others.
From time to time I've had the "itch" to at least think about riding a motorcycle. But for the reasons mentioned above, I just won't do it. I know too many people that are missing part of a leg due to being in a motorcycle accident.
In regards to Lazy's video...the clip is sort of out of context, but that guy doesn't even look like he attempted to take ANY line to take that curve. Looks to me like he assumed the road continued straight...also looked like he was having some braking problems when it became apparent to him that the road wasn't straight after all. But like I said - it's only one segment of video. For all we know he could have gotten stung by a bee 5 seconds before that and got distracted.
From time to time I've had the "itch" to at least think about riding a motorcycle. But for the reasons mentioned above, I just won't do it. I know too many people that are missing part of a leg due to being in a motorcycle accident.
In regards to Lazy's video...the clip is sort of out of context, but that guy doesn't even look like he attempted to take ANY line to take that curve. Looks to me like he assumed the road continued straight...also looked like he was having some braking problems when it became apparent to him that the road wasn't straight after all. But like I said - it's only one segment of video. For all we know he could have gotten stung by a bee 5 seconds before that and got distracted.
05-20-16, 07:58 AM
#111
Vain, But Lacking Talent
The Tour of California finished stage 4 on the Laguna Seca race track, so all of the resident motorcycle experts can fee free to view this video and critique the rider's lines, etc.
05-20-16, 08:20 AM
#112
Senior Member
In regards to Lazy's video...the clip is sort of out of context, but that guy doesn't even look like he attempted to take ANY line to take that curve. Looks to me like he assumed the road continued straight...also looked like he was having some braking problems when it became apparent to him that the road wasn't straight after all. But like I said - it's only one segment of video. For all we know he could have gotten stung by a bee 5 seconds before that and got distracted.
05-20-16, 11:43 AM
#113
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Well, then there you have your knucklehead car drivers. The drivers should have enough sense to get out of the way when the road gets cramped - especially in such a dangerous area of the course. They should have known better.
05-20-16, 02:47 PM
#114
Kit doesn't match
05-20-16, 03:13 PM
#115
Vain, But Lacking Talent
I was just talking to a co-worker about this while showing him some Isle of Man TT videos. It's always seemingly impossible to get a full sense of elevation changes when watching an event on TV. For us, seeing bikes at speeds we feel day to day up close in that turn makes it more of a reality. It also makes you realize how bananas that pass Rossi pulled was. Holy cow.
05-20-16, 11:57 PM
#118
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I just remembered this anecdote. After riding motorcycle for a few years and not being on my bike in a long time during that stretch I did something that made me a worse cyclist as a result of riding motorbikes.
I was pedaling along and I needed to stop, it was not an emergency stop but a quick stop. So motorcycling instinct came in and I popped the clutch. Except on the bicycle it was not the clutch but front brake. I almost endod.
I only made that mistake once.
I was pedaling along and I needed to stop, it was not an emergency stop but a quick stop. So motorcycling instinct came in and I popped the clutch. Except on the bicycle it was not the clutch but front brake. I almost endod.
I only made that mistake once.
05-21-16, 06:04 AM
#119
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After coming back to cycling after a few years of motorcycling, I was taking a 90 turn on my bike on smooth cement when I leaned the bicycle over so far that I lost traction and slammed to the ground. This was on the local university campus with hundreds of people around. As much as it hurt, I got right up and rode away, sheepishly. I haven't made that mistake again and I ride with my better tires now.
05-21-16, 07:53 AM
#120
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I see no correlation between bicycles and motorcycles. Too different. Motorcycles weigh several times the riders weight, go faster, have more powerful brakes, which means riding skills are completely different than a bicycle that weighs a fraction of what the rider does at slower speeds.
most bicycle riders aren't aware of counter steering, since the rider weight overpowers the bike and is an easy and fast way to turn and lean. Totally opposite on motorcycles, you must learn counter steering to be proficient.
i can blast down the twisties on my motorcycle with glee, but wouldn't dare try it on a bicycle with those wimpy brakes, tiny contact patch and iffy traction. Just TRY and drag a knee through a turn on a bicycle!
most bicycle riders aren't aware of counter steering, since the rider weight overpowers the bike and is an easy and fast way to turn and lean. Totally opposite on motorcycles, you must learn counter steering to be proficient.
i can blast down the twisties on my motorcycle with glee, but wouldn't dare try it on a bicycle with those wimpy brakes, tiny contact patch and iffy traction. Just TRY and drag a knee through a turn on a bicycle!
Last edited by Hot Potato; 05-21-16 at 08:06 AM.
05-21-16, 08:20 AM
#121
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After coming back to cycling after a few years of motorcycling, I was taking a 90 turn on my bike on smooth cement when I leaned the bicycle over so far that I lost traction and slammed to the ground. This was on the local university campus with hundreds of people around. As much as it hurt, I got right up and rode away, sheepishly. I haven't made that mistake again and I ride with my better tires now.
numbskull who caused my crash didn't even stop
05-21-16, 04:58 PM
#122
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As the guy who started this thread - I thank everyone for their thoughts and observations.
From what I can glean there is (naturally) a wide degree of opinion, as well as experience. If there is any commonality it seems that the similarities between the two disciplines relate to:
* Looking ahead
* General reflex
* Experience with speed
* Familiarity with vehicular, pedestrian and animals hazards
What I’ll need to do later this year is personally test the differences. More incentive to get my motorcycle sooner than later.
Cheers,
Essex
From what I can glean there is (naturally) a wide degree of opinion, as well as experience. If there is any commonality it seems that the similarities between the two disciplines relate to:
* Looking ahead
* General reflex
* Experience with speed
* Familiarity with vehicular, pedestrian and animals hazards
What I’ll need to do later this year is personally test the differences. More incentive to get my motorcycle sooner than later.
Cheers,
Essex
09-09-16, 05:14 PM
#123
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Well I got myself a new Ducati and have been comparing bike vs. motorcycle traits for the past month.
One thing I know - racers earn their speed. With the motorcycle unlimited power comes way too easy twist of the wrist.
Sometimes I feel like I am being lazy on the motorcycle.
I can say years of riding a fast road bike helps with the motorcycling. If I can attribute any trait a road bike develops - it's an inherent awareness of "cagers" and specific hazards (intersections/errant pedestrians) at speed 20-25 mph.
As per bumps, slicks, crud on the road - the Ducati suspension + ABS/traction control eat, or defeat it like nothing. I like this. And the big Pirelli tires are pretty reassuring when I lean into a turn. Most reassuring is that when I take the lane - I take the lane and can outrun most any car out there. So, I don't feel bothered by some cager honking at me, or bum rushing me because they can't wait 2-5 seconds while I pedal clear the center of the lane.
More observations to come....
One thing I know - racers earn their speed. With the motorcycle unlimited power comes way too easy twist of the wrist.
Sometimes I feel like I am being lazy on the motorcycle. I can say years of riding a fast road bike helps with the motorcycling. If I can attribute any trait a road bike develops - it's an inherent awareness of "cagers" and specific hazards (intersections/errant pedestrians) at speed 20-25 mph.
As per bumps, slicks, crud on the road - the Ducati suspension + ABS/traction control eat, or defeat it like nothing. I like this. And the big Pirelli tires are pretty reassuring when I lean into a turn. Most reassuring is that when I take the lane - I take the lane and can outrun most any car out there. So, I don't feel bothered by some cager honking at me, or bum rushing me because they can't wait 2-5 seconds while I pedal clear the center of the lane.
More observations to come....
09-09-16, 06:54 PM
#124
RacingBear
The Tour of California finished stage 4 on the Laguna Seca race track, so all of the resident motorcycle experts can fee free to view this video and critique the rider's lines, etc.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxqqLuaM5rM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxqqLuaM5rM
Fun, fast track on motorcycle that's for sure.
09-09-16, 06:56 PM
#125
RacingBear
I see no correlation between bicycles and motorcycles. Too different. Motorcycles weigh several times the riders weight, go faster, have more powerful brakes, which means riding skills are completely different than a bicycle that weighs a fraction of what the rider does at slower speeds.
most bicycle riders aren't aware of counter steering, since the rider weight overpowers the bike and is an easy and fast way to turn and lean. Totally opposite on motorcycles, you must learn counter steering to be proficient.
i can blast down the twisties on my motorcycle with glee, but wouldn't dare try it on a bicycle with those wimpy brakes, tiny contact patch and iffy traction. Just TRY and drag a knee through a turn on a bicycle!
most bicycle riders aren't aware of counter steering, since the rider weight overpowers the bike and is an easy and fast way to turn and lean. Totally opposite on motorcycles, you must learn counter steering to be proficient.
i can blast down the twisties on my motorcycle with glee, but wouldn't dare try it on a bicycle with those wimpy brakes, tiny contact patch and iffy traction. Just TRY and drag a knee through a turn on a bicycle!