garbagehead

Hey everyone,
There's a hill I often go up, cat 1 team riders do it in 4 min and a few I do it in about 6 min. I want to improve my time but I keep popping near the top.

The hill is 2 kilometers long, the first half about 2-4% the second half is about 8%. Should I push the flatter really hard and know I'll pop near the top and then creep up, or should I try to conserve early and make the time up by giving it all in the second half?

I'm working on my Vo2 max but 6 min is just too long for me to hold at the top end of my heart rate right now.

Any opinions on how to go after this hill?

rms13

Ride with the cat 1 group

gregf83 

Always better to push harder on the steeper section. If you push hard on the shallow section you'll waste energy as the aero drag becomes significant. I'd go a little over threshold on the first part and then all out on the second. If you don't have a powermeter, speed will be a reasonable indicator of effort. You should aim to do the 2nd half at a steady, all-out pace where you've got nothing left at the top. Not a big deal if you don't pace the 2nd part perfectly as relatively little energy will be spent overcoming aero drag.

Even if you botch the pacing on the 2nd half you should still be able to ride at threshold, albeit painfully. No creeping allowed

Edit: And to improve your time go up the hill 4-6 times (5 min rest in between climbs) at a steady pace twice a week. These are probably the most painful and uncomfortable intervals you can do but they're effective.

SpeshulEd 

Hill repeats! Want to get better at climbing, climb more. It works!

10 Wheels

Start in an easy gear.

Sit up straight.

Place your hands on the top part of your bars.

Don't look at the top of the hill.

TrojanHorse

He wants to get up the hill faster, not make a sandwich while climbing.

Ajkollme

Don't overthink it, just do it more

deapee

The answer is totally different if you have a power meter or if you do not. I'm assuming that you do not, otherwise you could easily pace yourself...even if you got it wrong the first attempt, you could tweak for your next.

bmthom.gis

As mentioned, hill repeats. When you find yourself tired, sit up more to engage your glutes. At one point or another, those Cat 1 guys and gals were also taking that hill at the same pace you are now.

dvdslw

Maybe if you stop calling it "stupid" it'll be nicer to you?

znomit

Go find a biggerer hill and train on that. Soon you'll wonder what all the fuss was about.

Hypno Toad

My feelings exactly.

I'm a good climber, not the strongest, but stronger than most. I found that racing into the climb only gets you to your threshold too fast and you'll max out too early. Save your max effort for the steeps to get your PR on Strava.

rm -rf

You lose the most time in the steep sections.

As a rough example, using 220 watts from this calculator:

1 km 3% grade: 22.4 kph = 1/22.4 = .045 hours or 161 seconds.

1 km 8% grade: 11.3 kph = 1/11.3 = .088 hours or 318 seconds. About 2/3 of the total time.

Total time is 161+318 seconds = 8 minutes.


For 250 watts

1km, 3% 24.4 kph = 1/24.4 is 148 seconds. 13 seconds less.
1km, 8% 12.8 kph = 1/12.8 is 281 seconds. 37 seconds less.

This calculates to 148+281 = 7 minutes.

But you'll notice that it takes a lot more power to go faster. Reaching 4 minutes from 6 minutes will be a lot of work. Your real hill isn't exactly 3% then exactly 8%, so this is just an example.

rfmarotti

This.

RJM

Hit the steep section harder and the flatter beginning section not as hard. Work on pacing it that way. You will lose less time on the steep section if you save enough to attack it.

Maelochs

Forget all that. Buy a new, much lighter, much more expensive bike. Come on, this is 21st -century America. Don't work for it. Buy it!

(Disclaimer: You will take just as long to ride up the hill on the new bike.)

hsuehhwa

Try hill repeats at ~10% (~1 mi) segments, or ~12-15% shorter segments. It will quickly and significant elevate your 5-8% climbing.

Maelochs

I live in Flatahoma, where interstate crossovers are considered big hills. What I have done is started riding an extra half-hour at steady pressure on the trainer .... hard enough so I can just push 50-60 revs for 30 minutes.

I figure depending on how I feel each session, I can increase revs, duration, or load until I can push really hard resistance at a 70-90 pace for an hour (which might take me longer than I will be alive, but it is nice to have goals, I guess.)

Some guy in another thread pointed out that climbing is nothing but riding at high watts for a long time .... you can do hill rpeeats since you have hills, but ultimately your goal is to put out a lot of power over six minutes ... which will require more than six minutes of training at a stretch (I think.)

I wish I could come t and ride with you one day ... you wouldn't be able to make it even up to the steep part when you saw me suffering and falling out just on the the 3% slope---which is a mountain, out where I live. You'd fall over laughing while I fell over in cardiac arrest. Every time you hit that hill you'd picture me struggling to climb the lowest slopes and choke up chortling and never make it to the top again.

Hot Potato

I remember some dude saying "don't buy upgrades. Ride up grades." I have often pondered why "up" was separated from "grades" in the second half of the statement, and concluded that it was a misprint. Get someone else to pay for the new bike and you ride it.

Xherion

fify

SpeshulEd 

Eddy would not be happy about this.

Maelochs

But you all have amused me quite a bit. Bravo!

kbarch

Lots of good advice above about hitting the harder end harder, and being gradual on the gradual part. One thing I'd add, though, is consider the profile in a little more detail. Even though the steepest part may be towards the end, if there's a gradual easing up as you crest the hill, you can start your attack MUCH sooner. If the profile is more concave, so to speak, you have to be more careful, and it may pay to work a little harder along the way and save just enough for the very end.

And don't forget what comes after the hill. If you beat everyone over the top of the big hill, it can be pretty demoralizing to get dropped on the little bump or bumps that happen to follow the one you exhausted yourself on.

ThermionicScott 

Learn to love it, to enjoy climbing it. I can't tell you how, but once the switch was flipped in my mind, I started climbing with a grin on my face, and going back for extra helpings. When you enjoy something, you'll try different variations just because you want to -- big gear and stand, little gear and spin, attack late, or go beast mode from the bottom to the top.

But if you hate climbing, you'll dread it and avoid it and that subtly robs you of drive when doing it.

jtaylor996

Most of the hills around here are "rollers" just hill after hill after hill. None particularly long, but up to 20%.

I have a power meter, and it's wonderful for pacing things. (my FTP is ~190w) Before I get to the climb I try to hit 180-200w for about 30s to get some momentum, then sorta coast as the incline ramps up until I can pedal my usual 95rpm cadence at about 330w. If it steepens out or goes really long then I have to really try to get down to about 250w or my HR will just blow up (which my doc doesn't allow). As I get better I can go longer and longer at the 330w+ level before my HR blows up. But it really helps me get to the top if I can start putting out the watts before the climb even starts.