A better lock ring tool?
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Central PA / Silver Spring MD
Posts: 52
Bikes: Bridgestone MB-5 (93), Bridgestone RB-1 (89), Giordana Spica (90)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
A better lock ring tool?
I just overhauled traditional cup and cone type bottom brackets on my two C&V bikes. One was a Suntour GPX and the other was unlabeled (at least that I could tell), but from the same era (late 80s, early 90s). This is a job I'd never tackled before, but it seemed fairly straightforward, and the final adjustment was simpler than I'd expected.
The one tricky part on both frames was getting the lock-ring off. I used a Park HCW-5. This fit in the lockring slots, but very loosely, and turning the ring without skinning knuckles against the frame was quite difficult. The tool kept slipping off of the lockring, and I came close to marring it a few times. There are two problems contributing to this: 1) the tool didn't fit either lock ring very tightly, and 2) the thickness of the tool was similar to (or thinner) than the lockrings themselves.
Is there a better tool for this job? Either a tighter fit, or a thicker tool, or a wrench that engages like a traditional socket head, would make this job much more straightforward.
I realize most people today would just replace the BB with a cartridge, but servicing these wasn't all that hard, and their condition didn't seem bad for 20 year old grease and bearings. I see no good reason to ditch these BB which are perfectly functional, in exchange for the latest trend, which is why I posted this question here rather than in the mechanics forum.
The one tricky part on both frames was getting the lock-ring off. I used a Park HCW-5. This fit in the lockring slots, but very loosely, and turning the ring without skinning knuckles against the frame was quite difficult. The tool kept slipping off of the lockring, and I came close to marring it a few times. There are two problems contributing to this: 1) the tool didn't fit either lock ring very tightly, and 2) the thickness of the tool was similar to (or thinner) than the lockrings themselves.
Is there a better tool for this job? Either a tighter fit, or a thicker tool, or a wrench that engages like a traditional socket head, would make this job much more straightforward.
I realize most people today would just replace the BB with a cartridge, but servicing these wasn't all that hard, and their condition didn't seem bad for 20 year old grease and bearings. I see no good reason to ditch these BB which are perfectly functional, in exchange for the latest trend, which is why I posted this question here rather than in the mechanics forum.
#2
Aspiring curmudgeon
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Saint Louis
Posts: 2,486
Bikes: Guerciotti, Serotta, Gaulzetti
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 111 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 26 Times
in
13 Posts
I have the same complaint about the HCW-5. I always just use the one-notch side because the three-notch never seems to fit correctly. And whether you replace the BB with a cartridge or not, you still have to get the old one out.
__________________
"Party on comrades" -- Lenin, probably
"Party on comrades" -- Lenin, probably
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: NYC+NNJ
Posts: 1,302
Bikes: i don't have a bike. a few frames, forks and some parts. that's all
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 54 Post(s)
Liked 52 Times
in
33 Posts
what i use:
works fine, still needs some caution i experienced.
and this is what i want to have:
both made by Hozan. i think Hozan tools are very fine.
works fine, still needs some caution i experienced.
and this is what i want to have:
both made by Hozan. i think Hozan tools are very fine.
#5
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Hopkinton, MA
Posts: 1,538
Bikes: 1938 Raleigh Record Ace (2), 1938 Schwinn Paramount, 1961 Torpado, 1964? Frejus, 1980 Raleigh 753 Team Pro, Moulton, other stuff...
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 11 Times
in
11 Posts
#6
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Wherever
Posts: 16,748
Mentioned: 92 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 556 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 132 Times
in
78 Posts
Check out the new VAR lock ring tool. Ugh
Bottom bracket lockring pliers BP-01600
Bottom bracket lockring pliers BP-01600
#8
aka: Mike J.
__________________
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Life happens, don't be a spectator.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Life happens, don't be a spectator.
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Yukon, Canada
Posts: 8,759
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 113 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 16 Times
in
14 Posts
Park BBT-7 fits higher end lock-rings with 6 notches, never adjust your sugino/campy/dura-ace/xtr/syncros without one. . The HCW-5 is meant for crap old three notch rings.
__________________
1 Super Record bike, 1 Nuovo Record bike, 1 Pista, 1 Road, 1 Cyclocross/Allrounder, 1 MTB, 1 Touring, 1 Fixed gear
1 Super Record bike, 1 Nuovo Record bike, 1 Pista, 1 Road, 1 Cyclocross/Allrounder, 1 MTB, 1 Touring, 1 Fixed gear
#12
Old fart
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Appleton WI
Posts: 24,791
Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.
Mentioned: 153 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3590 Post(s)
Liked 3,401 Times
in
1,935 Posts
#13
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: NYC+NNJ
Posts: 1,302
Bikes: i don't have a bike. a few frames, forks and some parts. that's all
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 54 Post(s)
Liked 52 Times
in
33 Posts
totally. it'd also work nicely as a universal headset wrench + many more applications.
the only trouble is, of course, hefty price. haven't committed buying one yet, was debating how-many-lockrings-i-am-dealing-with-per-year-sort ratio... one day, one day.
Hozan tools are great. well-thought and sharply executed.
shame Park tools have really become just 'ok' tools. the only advantage seems being readily available, nothing much more...
the only trouble is, of course, hefty price. haven't committed buying one yet, was debating how-many-lockrings-i-am-dealing-with-per-year-sort ratio... one day, one day.
Hozan tools are great. well-thought and sharply executed.
shame Park tools have really become just 'ok' tools. the only advantage seems being readily available, nothing much more...
#14
Banned.
Join Date: May 2011
Location: on the beach
Posts: 4,816
Bikes: '73 falcon sr, '76 grand record, '84 davidson
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 22 Times
in
17 Posts
never had issue with the hcw-5. i probably use the one-tooth side 90 percent of the time. but the other end comes in handy when loosening really tight lock rings.
#15
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 656
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I made the set john posted above, and for 6 dollars at harbor freight and 20 minutes with a file I have a tool that works better than store bought
#16
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Central PA / Silver Spring MD
Posts: 52
Bikes: Bridgestone MB-5 (93), Bridgestone RB-1 (89), Giordana Spica (90)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Thanks all! That's a lot of options. I likely would have ended up with the BBT-7 if it were listed on the Park website. Doesn't seem to be there (even with a search), but definitely shows up in online stores. The Hozan looks fantastic, but probably a bit pricey for my usage frequency (which to date has been once every 20 years).
#17
feros ferio
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: www.ci.encinitas.ca.us
Posts: 21,800
Bikes: 1959 Capo Modell Campagnolo; 1960 Capo Sieger (2); 1962 Carlton Franco Suisse; 1970 Peugeot UO-8; 1982 Bianchi Campione d'Italia; 1988 Schwinn Project KOM-10;
Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1393 Post(s)
Liked 1,329 Times
in
837 Posts
My Bianchi came with an aluminum 6-notch lockring, which I promptly damaged with my single-prong Sugino tool, which is a close relative of the Hozan shown above. Fortunately, my LBS had a 6-prong puller, so we removed the damaged ring with that. Also fortunately, I had saved the steel 3-prong lockring from my first Bianchi, which is what I now use. Big lesson: when you scrap any bicycle or major component, save the small bits and fittings, because you never know when they will come in handy in the future. I saved an Agrati pedal dustcap from my first Capo after the frame finally broke, only to find that my third Capo was missing one.
__________________
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
#18
What??? Only 2 wheels?
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Boston-ish, MA
Posts: 13,434
Bikes: 72 Peugeot UO-8, 82 Peugeot TH8, 87 Bianchi Brava, 76? Masi Grand Criterium, 74 Motobecane Champion Team, 86 & 77 Gazelle champion mondial, 81? Grandis, 82? Tommasini, 83 Peugeot PF10
Mentioned: 189 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1222 Post(s)
Liked 645 Times
in
232 Posts
I haven't yet found a BB that my Sugino BB tool would handle. Of course I don't think I've ever worked with an aluminum lockring. For loosening it at first a dead-weight rubber-coated mallet can be useful.
__________________
Real cyclists use toe clips.
With great bikes comes great responsibility.
jimmuller
Real cyclists use toe clips.
With great bikes comes great responsibility.
jimmuller
#19
Bike Butcher of Portland
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 11,639
Bikes: It's complicated.
Mentioned: 1299 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4682 Post(s)
Liked 5,802 Times
in
2,286 Posts
Last edited by gugie; 05-20-15 at 11:14 PM. Reason: better explanation
#20
tantum vehi
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Flathead Valley, MT
Posts: 4,440
Bikes: More than I care to admit
Mentioned: 153 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1167 Post(s)
Liked 992 Times
in
491 Posts
I love this forum. Just browsing, didn't think this thread would be necessary, and - low and behold - it's revelatory! DIY here I come!
#22
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Central Virginia
Posts: 4,780
Bikes: Numerous
Mentioned: 150 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1678 Post(s)
Liked 3,099 Times
in
914 Posts
The Campy tool works well for the Record stuff and has the added benefit of linking you spiritually with an elderly Italian man in a leather apron with a cigarette dangling from his mouth and a straw covered bottle of Chianti standing nearby.
Otherwise I use the hammer and punch to loosen it up.
Otherwise I use the hammer and punch to loosen it up.
#23
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Wherever
Posts: 16,748
Mentioned: 92 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 556 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 132 Times
in
78 Posts
I like my Campagnolo tools. They're beautiful and extremely well made. And a joy to use. Except the BB lock ring tool, IMO. Always have trouble keeping it aligned so it doesn't slip off the edge. I use it though, carefully.
#24
What??? Only 2 wheels?
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Boston-ish, MA
Posts: 13,434
Bikes: 72 Peugeot UO-8, 82 Peugeot TH8, 87 Bianchi Brava, 76? Masi Grand Criterium, 74 Motobecane Champion Team, 86 & 77 Gazelle champion mondial, 81? Grandis, 82? Tommasini, 83 Peugeot PF10
Mentioned: 189 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1222 Post(s)
Liked 645 Times
in
232 Posts
I would think the trouble with using a punch is it contacts only the out point of the notch, producing rounded corners like those in Soody's pic. Once you've damaged them this way a real BB tool will no longer grip. Once they are damaged you have no choice but to further the damage.
__________________
Real cyclists use toe clips.
With great bikes comes great responsibility.
jimmuller
Real cyclists use toe clips.
With great bikes comes great responsibility.
jimmuller
#25
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 13,954
Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 413 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 109 Times
in
78 Posts
Back in my shop days I used a wide variety of lock ring tools...except for the pliers type. Never really like those.
My go to tool was the Hozan and another with a 'swing/pivoted' but I cant remember the name of that one. In my opinion the Park tool are not designed properly, they're too thinwhich decreaces surface area with the ring and they're too tall which causes them to rock of the ring.
The big key to the Hozan/Park style tool is to grind a flat where the arms meets the ring.
1. Hook the tool onto a lock ring as if you were going to remove it.
2. Mark the tool with Sharpie where the body of the tool makes contact with the lock ring.
3. Grind a perpendicular flat where you made the mark.
My go to tool was the Hozan and another with a 'swing/pivoted' but I cant remember the name of that one. In my opinion the Park tool are not designed properly, they're too thinwhich decreaces surface area with the ring and they're too tall which causes them to rock of the ring.
The big key to the Hozan/Park style tool is to grind a flat where the arms meets the ring.
1. Hook the tool onto a lock ring as if you were going to remove it.
2. Mark the tool with Sharpie where the body of the tool makes contact with the lock ring.
3. Grind a perpendicular flat where you made the mark.
Last edited by miamijim; 05-21-15 at 07:21 AM.