ph0rk

No amount of skill will help you when someone in a car or truck decides that the mere fact of you being on the road is an affront to their honor.

I enjoyed gravel roads when I had more of them to ride regularly, and while the scenery is much better now I miss the solitude the most.

Metieval

because.....

there is a sign that says those drivers are not allowed to drive gravel roads? My days spent in MN says, that there are more drunks/drug users on the gravel roads than the main roads.

Seattle Forrest

My last car was totaled in stopped traffic. A line of cars two miles long not going anywhere, but the guy behind me had a really important text message. Slammed my car into the one in front of me, the crumple zones worked real well. I'm glad I went by car for that trip, if I was on my bike at the time I might not be able to ride today.

Being in traffic involves objective risk, not just subjective risk. (Borrowing these terms from the climbing community..)

Seattle Forrest

That's an interesting observation and in some areas here, like in the Taneaum, there might be a higher % of drunks on dirt roads than paved ones. I mean it's a giant mountainous area with nothing but unofficial camp sites, and a few hiking trails.

But the people on those roads are doing 10 mph not 50. "I ain't in no hurry." And they're not texting because nobody gets any reception in the mountains. Also they're not fighting each other for space.

Marcus_Ti

Yup.

in the last year, within 10 miles of my doorstep, on fairly empty paved roads I used to ride on....3 cyclists (actual enthusiasts--not idiots on bikes) were hit and killed. One was hit by the passenger mirror and the guy didn't even stop ad claimed to know he didn't know he killed a bystander. Another was a local organizer and racer who knew how to ride smart NVM fast.

2 years back I saw a van operated by a soccer mom. She was transfixed by her steering wheel. She was texting and driving--with at least 5 children on board. No amount of skill makes up for a 1 or 2-ton vehicle moving at any speed operated with depraved indifference and willful negligence.

Kapusta

Spoonrobot 

IME people on the road in the urban areas I ride are more likely to want to put real fear into me while using their car as a perceived weapon or tool of intimidation. Telling me they'll run me over, swerving and brake checking are all things I experience a few times a year. Seems they really want me to think they will hurt or kill me for the transgression of riding a bike on the road. This is while riding in considerate manner in bike lanes, on paths or on the shoulder. It's kinda nuts around here sometimes.

People on gravel roads seem more likely to want to mess with me for kicks. Spraying gravel from their tires as they pass, blowing diesel smoke and yelling nonsense are common. Also aggressive dogs can be an issue.

On a miles ridden and per vehicle basis I have a much higher percentage of negative experiences on gravel roads; but they certainly do not feel as dangerous.

Metieval

I ride with a mirror, Unless I am up against a wall with no where else to go it's going to be hard to hit me with a mirror.

yet so many " actual enthusiast" still refuse to ride with mirrors. It makes them look like commuters or something. God forbid.

Junkbeast

I never really thought about it, but when I get a gravel bike it will be a nice bonus I think.

colorondo

I've been a road cyclist for decades, but always had a mountain bike and rode that maybe 5% of the time (liked it, but road cycling was always more convenient, available right out the door...).

About 5 yrs ago I made the decision to start riding more off-road, mainly to avoid cars. I just don't feel as safe on pavement anymore. That lead me to try gravel/dirt road riding. I built up a basic steel cross frame w/ some old mtn bike parts and that's become my main ride these days. I really like the quiet gravel/dirt roads even tho my average speed is lower. Luckily the gravel roads I ride don't have any traffic - I think gravel riding would be really horrible with a lot of traffic.

And, I also ride with a mirror on all my bikes except the mtn bike (road, gravel, commuter), and I find it really handy.

IslandTimePE

+1 Well said JARUDE. My sentiments exactly.

dbf909

As a matter of fact, virtually all of the gravel roads around where I live ARE explicitly off-limits and closed (barricaded or gated) to ALL motorized traffic (except the very rare service/maintenance vehicle). I'm talking about the levy roads that criss-cross the Everglades for many many miles here in South Florida. There are literally hundreds of miles of gravel down here. No hills, but a bit of wind now and then. The only downside is no shade... All of it available to Cyclists and Pedestrians and no Motorists.

I enjoy riding out there because I see all sorts of things up close that 99.999% of the 8+ million people that live here have never seen except maybe on TV or the Internet. The animals and birds and really just the quiet of being away from civilization is incredibly refreshing since I spend so much of my life in the "Rat Race".

I live in the land of idiots - seriously, I avoid being hit multiple times each and every time I venture out on the Road Bike - no exaggeration. People around here are the most self-absorbed, entitled, get out of my way, face stuck firmly in their phone, clueless sort that I've encountered anywhere I've lived or traveled in the world. Pedestrians and Cyclists are killed literally every single day somewhere in Dade, Broward, or Palm Beach county. So many that it doesn't even make the news anymore.

None the less, there is still a very large Road Bike community down here and many ride on a regulary basis. However, pretty much all that I know have had at least one serious accident and virtually all know people who were killed at one time. Many folks that I know have given up road riding completely and taken up Mountain/Trail riding and/or riding the levy roads.

So I guess to answer the question: Yes, I ride gravel to get away from motorists... but mostly to get away from people.

Metieval

I logged 1,000 miles south of SW 216th from everglades to 1 and North of 9336 I had no issues and everyone was polite. Stay off 997/994 I even rode Old Cutler which I wouldn't advise to new riders or slow riders.

From Miami-Dade landfill all the way out Coconut Palm to Fruit & Spice Park Is a nice ride with respectable drivers. Riders down there would have more riffraff with the drug dealing along the bike route on US1 and East of 1, than fear of cars

Even the ride from Silver Palm to the lighthouse at Bill Braggs was a nice "road ride" with zero close calls.


Next time you blow BS, don't blow it to the Guy who actually logged road miles down there! again you've shady neighborhoods that are a bigger danger to cyclist than drivers.

If I had a cool Million or 2 to blow on a nice ranch out in Redlands. It would be awesome with perfect road riding.

Just to rub salt in the wound, that was 1,000 miles helmetless on a single speed and laughing at the old men on Cervelos struggling to maintain 15 mph.

Again it isn't that hard to get along with Drivers. even in South Miami!

Edit: Sometimes it is as simple as a look back as a communication signal to let them know you know they are there. I stopped at the the stop signs and was waved on by drivers countless times. So I am definitely not buying the "self absorbed" unless it's applies to roadie cyclist mentality. which is maybe why I got more respect. Cargo shorts, jersey, and cotton bandana. I didn't fit the profile of the so called typical Cervelo riding self-absorbed A-hole.

Edit 2: btw Coconut Palm is probably one of the busier East/West roads down there. Regardless a road ride out to Knaus berry farm and a milk shake will do you good. ride faster you can make the Redland Middle school sign blink, telling you to slow down. .

Kapusta

ph0rk

For the fire roads around here, yes.

And for those that don't there are far fewer cars. And far fewer people rushing, late, staring at their phones and/or applying makeup.

There is just plain more traffic on pavement - that's even why it gets paved in some municipalities, because a layer of gravel only lasts for so many months. As for whether the traffic there is also more distracted - that's an empirical question and I don't think you have any reliable data to make a claim either way.

You'll see fewer cars on a gravel ride. You may see more horses, though.

Spoonrobot 

So you rode there for 3-6 weeks and the somehow invalidates his experience? I think it's well known at this point that Florida is one of the more dangerous places to ride a bike.

He got you good with the roads being closed to drivers bit, something you either forgot or didn't know from your vacation time in a place he appears to live. You weren't "getting along with drivers" and they certainly didn't "respect" you. I found your post to be much more BS than anything posted so far in this thread. Please try craft something a little more informative next time.

Kapusta

Seattle Forrest

I rode out to the end of Middle Fork Snoqualmie River Road before they paved it. Got a flat tire on the way back. It was drizzling. The first car that went by pulled over, and a middle aged lady asked me if I needed a ride.

I've run into nice drivers on pavement, too, but my averages are skewed by living in Seattle. Most drivers I encounter are rushed, and fighting for road space, or looking for parking, or something along those lines.

5teve

I grew up and learned to ride on a dirt road so there's a little nostalgia aspect. These days the gravel roads I most often ride (as opposed to mainly paved routes) are northeast of town. There's a higher ratio of dirt to paved roads up that way, and since the paved roads get much of the motorized/commuter/places to be, traffic, it can be a little hectic and congested particularly at commuter times. So, yeah-avoiding cars is an aspect. But also, sticking solely to pavement cuts out over half your route options-seems a bit restrictive to me. Dirt roads are often more scenic, with lots of trees and vistas, the hills are more challenging, often steeper and sometimes loose and rutted. It's pretty flat around here so I take my hills where I can find them! I think dirt roads are a bit of an equalizer-cars slow down because the roads are more winding and hilly with shorter sightlines and less certain traction, and they presumably don't was to gravel-ding their paint, rattle their teeth over a washboarded section, or kick up a ton of dust or mud. And since the road is usually narrower, they are more attentive when closing on (the more frequent) slower road users - equestrians, runners/walkers, pedalers and the like. I recall once I was riding along a dirt road and there were a couple of equestrians ahead coming the other way. There was a dog walker going my way and a car coming in the other direction. As luck would have it, we call converged at about the same time. The car slowed to a crawl and waited until the way was clear. Everyone waved, including the driver. Hellos and good mornings were exchanged. It was pleasant, not stressful-not the sort of encounter you'd get on pavement where cars tend to feel more entitled to travel at or over the speed limit and anything that causes them to slow or pass is "in the way." Dirt roads just seems to encourage a more human pace and reaction from everyone.

dbf909

I certainly did not mean to incite anyone with my rant on South Florida Motorists. For that I do apologize. I do live with it every day and some days are worse than others... Of course there are many many folks on the road that do pay attention to what they are doing and are aware of what's going on around them. However, my direct experience is that there seems to be a very high percentage that do not and that seems to be continually increasing. The increase in general car traffic just over the last 5-10 years is incredible and I think that this has fueled the problem to a large degree. It can be a very frustrating place to drive or bike.

There is a very large and passionate Cycling population here in South Florida with many Group rides all over the area every day and tons of places to go. There are some great rides up and down the coast (A1A) and MUPs are (slowly) popping up all over the place. South Dade county has some wonderful roads to ride and I especially like the area down by the Homestead Speedway - its about as rural as it gets in this part of FL. It is a long distance from where I live so I don't get down there much.

I just enjoy riding and exploring the hundreds of miles of levy roads accessible within a couple of miles of my house. I find that it is far more of a stress-reliever to ride out there than on the roads around here (which for me creates more stress than it relieves).

Metieval

so ex roadies now gravel riders, some of the posts are now making more sense when we read them as coming from a "roadies" attitude.

Kapusta

hubcyclist

I think I might have said it somewhere here before, but one time I was out in Lincoln I rented a bike and ended up with a gravel bike. Ended up riding some off road but also some on road down 77 and over on W Roca. While I never felt like I was in danger, riding on such high speed roads was a bit of a foreign concept to me and a bit unnerving, I'm used to riding on 30-40mph quiet roads. So if I actually lived in Lincoln I'd probably focus more on off road than on road, for sure.

Marcus_Ti

I've met people on Tour de Nebraska who swear they'll only ride on paved roads with shoulders.....which in Nebraska basically means you're limited to state highways, as only only state highways and the Interstate reliably have shoulders.

HWY77 is nuts. And I used to ride on that. A problem made worse by the city's inept planning. One of the main nexuses for cyclist deaths in Lancaster county is Saltillo Road....in large part because it became the defacto city-bypass on the south side, it was never intended to be (hence its complete lack of shoulders and only 1 lane each way)--but became that when plans for a proper bypass folded. Tons of traffic onto and off of it, most are speeding and many on game days are drunk....the only other bypass is Roca Rd which is probably what you were on, which is a nice workout but lots of blind spots due to rollers and lots of people are gunning their throttle on it. Nice thing--shadowing HWY77 there's a rail-trails bike path now that is isolated and parallels it about 0.5-1mile away that stretches from Lincoln to practically the Kansas border now.


Safety aside...the other oddball reality out here, most of the county roads to get from Point A to Point B have no pavement other than in the middle of town. Last number I saw about 30% of road miles in the USA were not paved and most of them are in rural Great Plains America, AKA right here. A problem many multi-day ride oreganizers run into out here is varying their routes year to year as there are only so many supporting communities and very few paved roads to get between them.

kuroba

A lot.
I turned to gravel grinding after I was hit by a car on my commute to work, late 2016. I had already done a few rides, but it was after that I got really into it. I still like road riding, but I also enjoy gravel because I don't have to fear for my life whenever I hear a car coming or in every other intersection.