Video: CF failure
Likes For eduskator:
09-20-19, 01:07 PM
#52
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 23,208
Mentioned: 89 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18883 Post(s)
Liked 10,646 Times
in
6,054 Posts
The thing that worries me about reel bikes is that Iron Man was turned to steel in the great magnetic field when he traveled time for the future of mankind, now the time is here for Iron Man to spread fear, vengeance from the grave; kills the people he once saved. Nobody wants him, they just turn their heads, nobody helps him, now he has his revenge.
Sure seems like a lot of potential to get caught in that great magnetic field on a steel bike and then killed by an angry superhero. That's just not a risk I'm willing to take.
Sure seems like a lot of potential to get caught in that great magnetic field on a steel bike and then killed by an angry superhero. That's just not a risk I'm willing to take.
Likes For Seattle Forrest:
09-20-19, 01:15 PM
#53
Should Be More Popular
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Malvern, PA (20 miles West of Philly)
Posts: 43,027
Bikes: 1986 Alpine (steel road bike), 2009 Ti Habenero, 2013 Specialized Roubaix
Mentioned: 560 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22571 Post(s)
Liked 8,918 Times
in
4,152 Posts
The thing that worries me about reel bikes is that Iron Man was turned to steel in the great magnetic field when he traveled time for the future of mankind, now the time is here for Iron Man to spread fear, vengeance from the grave; kills the people he once saved. Nobody wants him, they just turn their heads, nobody helps him, now he has his revenge.
Sure seems like a lot of potential to get caught in that great magnetic field on a steel bike and then killed by an angry superhero. That's just not a risk I'm willing to take.
Sure seems like a lot of potential to get caught in that great magnetic field on a steel bike and then killed by an angry superhero. That's just not a risk I'm willing to take.
Likes For datlas:
09-21-19, 09:46 PM
#54
Senior Member
I've done my share of weight weenie choices but there's I just refuse to f*ck with to save grams and one of them is steerer tube. If I have a bike that ships with those tiny single digit grams compression plugs, it goes to trash and gets replaced with something much more substantial (cover stem area AT LEAST).
Other than that, torque wrench. A quality one. Even if it's $150 it's still much cheaper than an ambulance ride or surgery.
*above is not a speculation about what happened to that pro rider. It could be a number of things and we'll never know. But it's a good reminder for us to do the minimal care to minimize risk.*
Other than that, torque wrench. A quality one. Even if it's $150 it's still much cheaper than an ambulance ride or surgery.
*above is not a speculation about what happened to that pro rider. It could be a number of things and we'll never know. But it's a good reminder for us to do the minimal care to minimize risk.*
09-22-19, 10:04 PM
#55
bike whisperer
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Melbourne, Oz
Posts: 9,537
Bikes: https://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=152015&p=1404231
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1523 Post(s)
Liked 716 Times
in
508 Posts
__________________
Sheldon Brown's bike info ~~~ Park Tools repair help
Half-step triple, using double gear ~~~ 6400 STI rebuild walkthrough ~~~ Want 8/9/10s @126mm OLD? OCR. ~~~ Shimano cassette body overhaul ~~~ Ergopower Escape wear repair ~~~ PSA: drivetrain wear
List of US/Canada bike co-ops ~~~ Global list
Sheldon Brown's bike info ~~~ Park Tools repair help
Half-step triple, using double gear ~~~ 6400 STI rebuild walkthrough ~~~ Want 8/9/10s @126mm OLD? OCR. ~~~ Shimano cassette body overhaul ~~~ Ergopower Escape wear repair ~~~ PSA: drivetrain wear
List of US/Canada bike co-ops ~~~ Global list
Likes For Kimmo:
09-23-19, 01:04 PM
#56
my nice bike is at home
You can talk all day about design : what is better? The materials, again, what is better? or did you use a torque wrench? etc, but really: The question should be: when was the last time you had your torque wrench calibrated? So you know its reading the proper ft. lbs. or Nm ?
( BTW: anyone know where the hell can I have my wrenchs calibrated in the greater NYC area? )
( BTW: anyone know where the hell can I have my wrenchs calibrated in the greater NYC area? )
__________________
BMC Race Machine / BMC Team Machine / Rossin Record / 80's Pinarello Traviso / Merlin MTB / Raleigh "Folding 20" / Ti-Swift (!)
Erikson w/C&C couplers / Trek's: 2300, 1200, 990 / Jamis 'Sputnik'
BMC Race Machine / BMC Team Machine / Rossin Record / 80's Pinarello Traviso / Merlin MTB / Raleigh "Folding 20" / Ti-Swift (!)
Erikson w/C&C couplers / Trek's: 2300, 1200, 990 / Jamis 'Sputnik'
09-24-19, 06:12 AM
#57
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Québec, Canada
Posts: 2,108
Bikes: SL8 Pro, TCR beater
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 981 Post(s)
Liked 579 Times
in
437 Posts
I've done my share of weight weenie choices but there's I just refuse to f*ck with to save grams and one of them is steerer tube. If I have a bike that ships with those tiny single digit grams compression plugs, it goes to trash and gets replaced with something much more substantial (cover stem area AT LEAST).
Other than that, torque wrench. A quality one. Even if it's $150 it's still much cheaper than an ambulance ride or surgery.
*above is not a speculation about what happened to that pro rider. It could be a number of things and we'll never know. But it's a good reminder for us to do the minimal care to minimize risk.*
Other than that, torque wrench. A quality one. Even if it's $150 it's still much cheaper than an ambulance ride or surgery.
*above is not a speculation about what happened to that pro rider. It could be a number of things and we'll never know. But it's a good reminder for us to do the minimal care to minimize risk.*
09-24-19, 02:10 PM
#58
Ride, Wrench, Swap, Race
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Northern California
Posts: 9,181
Bikes: Cheltenham-Pedersen racer, Boulder F/S Paris-Roubaix, Varsity racer, '52 Christophe, '62 Continental, '92 Merckx, '75 Limongi, '76 Presto, '72 Gitane SC, '71 Schwinn SS, etc.
Mentioned: 132 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1562 Post(s)
Liked 1,285 Times
in
856 Posts
What bothers me about all of these carbon-steerer issues is that we are getting next to no data about which parts are causing these problems and which parts are preventing these problems.
Other than the inclusion (or not) of a generously-long and uniformly-supporting compression plug, how about the variability of how different stem mfgr's might be designing their stems so that the ears do or don't tend to dig into the steerer and thus initiate a failure that ultimately progresses circumferentially around the steerer?
And what of different fork mfgr's testing and redesigning their steer tubes until they show best resistance to assault from stem clamp compression?
The manufacturers of forks and stems have testing standards for their products, but we don't have access to knowing which companies are more conscientious with respect to their testing standards.
My answer to people who make comments on visible and material differences among product designs is that, in the end, it all comes down to testing and quality control, rather than on what material and dimensions are visible and known. But the whole matter is complicated by the combining of parts from different mfgr's, combinations which may not have been tested individually.
I'm thinking also that there are standards in place which most of us here know nothing about, but which may or may not be adequate depending on the standards of assembly.
All that said, I am a fan of Cervelo's glued-in alloy tube/sleeve into which a simple star-fangled nut can be inserted, provided that the sleeve is well-bonded into the steerer and that it extends from the end of the steerer down below the top haedset bearing. It's light, simple and seemingly more fool-proof than most of the other designs imo. But might it be as good to simply increase the steerer thickness over the same length to the tune of the same weight increase as any reinforcing sleeve (creating in effect a double-butted steerer)?
Other than the inclusion (or not) of a generously-long and uniformly-supporting compression plug, how about the variability of how different stem mfgr's might be designing their stems so that the ears do or don't tend to dig into the steerer and thus initiate a failure that ultimately progresses circumferentially around the steerer?
And what of different fork mfgr's testing and redesigning their steer tubes until they show best resistance to assault from stem clamp compression?
The manufacturers of forks and stems have testing standards for their products, but we don't have access to knowing which companies are more conscientious with respect to their testing standards.
My answer to people who make comments on visible and material differences among product designs is that, in the end, it all comes down to testing and quality control, rather than on what material and dimensions are visible and known. But the whole matter is complicated by the combining of parts from different mfgr's, combinations which may not have been tested individually.
I'm thinking also that there are standards in place which most of us here know nothing about, but which may or may not be adequate depending on the standards of assembly.
All that said, I am a fan of Cervelo's glued-in alloy tube/sleeve into which a simple star-fangled nut can be inserted, provided that the sleeve is well-bonded into the steerer and that it extends from the end of the steerer down below the top haedset bearing. It's light, simple and seemingly more fool-proof than most of the other designs imo. But might it be as good to simply increase the steerer thickness over the same length to the tune of the same weight increase as any reinforcing sleeve (creating in effect a double-butted steerer)?
09-26-19, 12:51 PM
#59
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Québec, Canada
Posts: 2,108
Bikes: SL8 Pro, TCR beater
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 981 Post(s)
Liked 579 Times
in
437 Posts
What bothers me about all of these carbon-steerer issues is that we are getting next to no data about which parts are causing these problems and which parts are preventing these problems.
Other than the inclusion (or not) of a generously-long and uniformly-supporting compression plug, how about the variability of how different stem mfgr's might be designing their stems so that the ears do or don't tend to dig into the steerer and thus initiate a failure that ultimately progresses circumferentially around the steerer?
And what of different fork mfgr's testing and redesigning their steer tubes until they show best resistance to assault from stem clamp compression?
The manufacturers of forks and stems have testing standards for their products, but we don't have access to knowing which companies are more conscientious with respect to their testing standards.
My answer to people who make comments on visible and material differences among product designs is that, in the end, it all comes down to testing and quality control, rather than on what material and dimensions are visible and known. But the whole matter is complicated by the combining of parts from different mfgr's, combinations which may not have been tested individually.
I'm thinking also that there are standards in place which most of us here know nothing about, but which may or may not be adequate depending on the standards of assembly.
All that said, I am a fan of Cervelo's glued-in alloy tube/sleeve into which a simple star-fangled nut can be inserted, provided that the sleeve is well-bonded into the steerer and that it extends from the end of the steerer down below the top haedset bearing. It's light, simple and seemingly more fool-proof than most of the other designs imo. But might it be as good to simply increase the steerer thickness over the same length to the tune of the same weight increase as any reinforcing sleeve (creating in effect a double-butted steerer)?
Other than the inclusion (or not) of a generously-long and uniformly-supporting compression plug, how about the variability of how different stem mfgr's might be designing their stems so that the ears do or don't tend to dig into the steerer and thus initiate a failure that ultimately progresses circumferentially around the steerer?
And what of different fork mfgr's testing and redesigning their steer tubes until they show best resistance to assault from stem clamp compression?
The manufacturers of forks and stems have testing standards for their products, but we don't have access to knowing which companies are more conscientious with respect to their testing standards.
My answer to people who make comments on visible and material differences among product designs is that, in the end, it all comes down to testing and quality control, rather than on what material and dimensions are visible and known. But the whole matter is complicated by the combining of parts from different mfgr's, combinations which may not have been tested individually.
I'm thinking also that there are standards in place which most of us here know nothing about, but which may or may not be adequate depending on the standards of assembly.
All that said, I am a fan of Cervelo's glued-in alloy tube/sleeve into which a simple star-fangled nut can be inserted, provided that the sleeve is well-bonded into the steerer and that it extends from the end of the steerer down below the top haedset bearing. It's light, simple and seemingly more fool-proof than most of the other designs imo. But might it be as good to simply increase the steerer thickness over the same length to the tune of the same weight increase as any reinforcing sleeve (creating in effect a double-butted steerer)?
Did anyone here ever had a CF fork tube failed under their hands while riding? If so, are they 100% sure that the stem bolts were tighten to the proper specs & there was no other damage? So many factors to consider prior to jumping to a conclusion.
Last edited by eduskator; 09-26-19 at 12:54 PM.
09-26-19, 07:08 PM
#60
Senior Member
This is how mass hysteria begins.
09-27-19, 04:22 AM
#61
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 316
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 174 Post(s)
Liked 177 Times
in
99 Posts
I'm already on the bandwagon... 🙄.
Although it makes me feel better that in the video, the steering tube didn't fail immediately, it gave the rider time to slow down and avoid a crash.
He probably thought he could make it across the finish line before it failed and said "f**k it" though.
Although it makes me feel better that in the video, the steering tube didn't fail immediately, it gave the rider time to slow down and avoid a crash.
He probably thought he could make it across the finish line before it failed and said "f**k it" though.
09-27-19, 06:42 AM
#62
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Québec, Canada
Posts: 2,108
Bikes: SL8 Pro, TCR beater
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 981 Post(s)
Liked 579 Times
in
437 Posts
You want to win a race? Tighten the other contestant's stem bolts with an impact driver. There ya go!
