pushstart

I could use some help identifying this (late 80s?) frame. The seller had apparently been given this bike by a taller friend (who had clearly evolved this bike over the years), so he [the seller] couldn't tell me much about it. I plan to sand it down, deal with rust issues (hopefully nothing is rusted through) and repaint it, but was curious if anyone had any idea what the heck it is.

Cross-posting from the steel-is-real FB group, hoping someone here might know.

Notable things:
- Someone previously had put on logos (or paint) that read "Conlago" (yes, not "Colnago"); outlines can be seen under the paint. Also has some Colnago-looking clover logos. So that makes me think it is probably not an actual Colnago. But no idea.
- The internal routing through down tube for the front & rear derailleurs (and chain stay for rear mech) seems very distinctive. Also it seems like there was some other piece here before (probably down tube shifters?). Have been googling for frames that did this, but haven't been able to find much.
- It does have Campagnolo ("Brev Campagnolo") dropouts.
- It has full Campagnolo, though the groupset (Chorus) is 8sp and the wheels are 7sp tubies, so I'm trying to get that fixed (replace wheels) so it shifts properly.
- Italian threaded BB shell
- Seatpost is 27.2
- Rear spacing is 130mm.
- BB has markings, but due to some surface corrosion hard to read other than "60" -- seat tube measures 60cm center-to-center so assume that's the size.
Anything else that might help narrow this down? Thanks in advance!

Piff 

I'm not an expert, or even an amateur, but the downtube shift mount would be early 80s if it's original. Which it probably is, I assume the PO had a frame builder alter the frame to have cable stops and internal routing in the 90s or 2000s to make this frame compatible with brifters. Repainted at that time, too.

juvela

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1984 was the extreme tail end for top mount shifters; launch was 1982

note that drive side dropout exhibits the small hole for the portacatena feature, another dating aid



somewhat concerned by the lumpy appearance in this image

appreciate that it is "probably" just paint

you will be able to closely examine the surface when you have the paint removed...


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pushstart

Oh, interesting! That hadn't occurred to me that I might be looking at two different points in time. The modification makes a lot of sense. I wonder if I could further modify it to let me pass full housing instead of bare lines ... though perhaps that would be too tight through the chain stay.

pushstart

Thank you -- very helpful! Yes, also a bit concerned here, though the paint looks like it was brushed/rolled on very thick. There are also those "Conlago" decals, which may be contributing. Hopefully that is what it is. I think I will have it powder coated, so I'll tell them to give me a call once they've media blastaed it so I can review whether part #2 in that process is actually worth pursuing.

pushstart

TIL ..! https://bikeretrogrouch.blogspot.com...dea-whose.html -- So does this suggest that maybe the frame wouldn't have originally been 130mm rear spacing?

This is quite an archeology here.

jdawginsc 

I’m not sure those are brifters stops, but rather cable guides for the top mount cable routing. You’d think if someone put brifter stops at least they’d be a cylinder shape.

I think it is pretty much as built, just someone wanted a Colnago.

Are those Bottecchia or Olmo bottom bracket cut outs?

Piff 

jdawginsc
I'm having a hard time visualizing the holes and cable stops being compatible with top mount shifters...I've never seen or heard of those little brackets or guides being necessary. To my eyes they'd just get in the way.

However, I just found this thread: https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...-shifters.html

It has a picture of strikingly similar internal cable routing. Unfortunately it's impossible to see if the cable guides are there as well:

Mad Honk 

That top mount shifter braze on screams Asian build at me, with some modifications added later. I would like to see the inside of the BB and follow the cable routing as it is configured. Smiles, MH

juvela

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few Asian machines constructed with Campag ends and Cinelli investment cast crowns...


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John E

Usual questions:
1) BB threading
2) seat post diameter
3) internal markings on frame tubes

P!N20

Is the rear brake cable internal too?

Strange that with all the internal cabling there isn't any markings of the marque. Casati comes to mind, but I'd expect to see their logo on the seat stay caps.

As mentioned, the Portacatena holes suggest a 1978-1982 timeframe. Rear triangle must have been cold set if it's 130mm.

Looks like there may be more numbers following on from the 60 on the BB shell. Not that it's probably going to help us much.

CO_Hoya 

Here’s the top-mounted, internally routed shifters on my Vicini:


Seems similar or identical to what the OP has.

The RD exit from the stay is different on mine then what’s shown here, and the lack of branding on the frame indicates its not a Vicini, but may have come from the same builder. My understanding is that my frame came from a contract builder for Vicini.

HTH

jdawginsc 

I think those loops were just re-purposed as cable stops; my guess is they are to keep the shifters in a parallel position when up shifting to the small-small rings/cogs.

As far as a contract build, that seems pretty likely. Top tube cable routing likely done later though maybe not.

Lug cutouts would be normal for a contract builder to use, I think? The lack of pantograph info on the fork crown makes it difficult to say what it was badged as.

obrentharris 

Yes. Without those two little stops the shifter levers would contact the down tube in the fully forward position.
Brent

Mr. 66

I have seen a Jack Taylor that had that shifter and internal route, but I don't recall the how the exiting was done.

pushstart

I haven't found any markings on the frame tubes that I can see, but Italian threaded BB and 27.2 seatpost
​​​diameter.

pushstart

Wow, that does look identical. Your frame is beautiful; I like the Campag 8sp, but maybe I should see if.i could source some top mount shifters 🤔

Interesting idea about contract builder. Just so I understand, Vicini contracted different builders (in Italy?) to build their frames and yours (and possibly mine) might have been "sold direct" from one of those builders?

CO_Hoya 

I believe that Vicini sold my bike as their own, rather than direct from a contract builder. Mine allegedly came from a shop in Arizona (Domenic’s?) that was a US distributor for Vicini.

At this point, the only commonality I see between our bikes is that DT shifter fitting. I don’t know if that was a custom piece indicating from the same shop, or something off-the-shelf which would mean it they (probably) didn’t. I don’t really see anything else that they have in common, fwiw.

One detail you can check is that mine has what appears to be a builder’s stamp (circled MB) on the BB - I don’t see that on yours but maybe it’s there? I have no idea what that stamp means, though.

pushstart

Ok, good point. That BB certainly looks completely different. I don't see any builder mark on mine. I used a 3m abrasive brush to clean off the surface rust and reveal the serial, though I don't imagine it helps a whole lot.

MauriceMoss

Could you post a picture of the top of the lower head lug (that shows the cutout) and also of the internal cable routing entry/exit on the top tube/

Wondering if they look like this:

MauriceMoss

Re: the MB stamp on the bottom bracket shell - I contacted Billato a while back and they confirmed that this was their factory punch for a while. You can also see it on other Billato built frame of the period (like the cromovelato Detto Pietro ones that get posted on BF from time to time).

pushstart

Yes, they look exactly like those! Will post a photo when I'm finished with breakfast.

Edit here are the pics (I was cleaning up the brake entry/exit to make sure the corrosion was just surface-deep).

jethin

Maurice "C&V Sherlock" Moss strikes again.

MauriceMoss

I just wanted to confirm, since everything else lined up with what I was thinking.

Your frame was made by Olmo. They used to do the serial number format both with the size leading and trailing the frame number during this period, so if you look into Olmos, you'll see it stamped either way. Also, the internal cable routing is original. Going by the serial number (9846?) it might be a 1983 (or possibly even 1982) - the Olmo registry has a 9862 as a 1983.

If the frame is in the US (or came from the US), it's highly likely that it was originally badged Nishiki Cervino. Another company that sold Olmo contract made frames that looked very similar to this was Euro-Asia Imports, under their Eurospeciale brand, but I've never seen one of those with internal cable routing.

Here are some pics of Nishiki Cervinos:









60 9835:




Shifter mount w/o shifters (best view I could find):




This one is a 9844: