oldacura

My wife (Stoker) and I have been riding various types of bikes for a long time: single road bikes, single mountain bikes, road tandems, etc.

Our team age is now 120+ and we decided to try electric bikes. We rented some and then bought a pair (we now own 9 bikes).

After riding for a bit I noticed that e-bikes solve the same problem that tandems do - just in a different way: They allow 2 people with different abilities to ride together.

The e-bikes we bought are sort of "hybrid" bikes. They are the Faraday brand. These are not really true road bikes and they are not mountain bikes. They are more like upright bikes that can do well on roads as well as bike paths and gravel paths (not suitable as true mountain bikes). They have 26 x 1.5" tires, belt drive, a Shimano Alfine 8 speed internally geared hub, disc brakes and a front hub motor.

They have pedal-assist and the assist can be switched from none to low to high. Most of the time we ride with the motor turned off. When we approach a moderate hill, we can turn them to low boost. For a steeper hill we can switch to high boost. Riding these bikes makes us feel like kids again. The type of riding we do on them is "exploring". We still alternate with our road tandem but the ride is very different. We can go out for a 25 mile ride and only use about 25% of the range.

Sometimes when we climb a long hill, I can switch to low boost and my wife will switch to high boost. I can crank up the hill and not be able to catch her. We both get a workout at our own pace. It is really fun to be able to ride side-by-side and each of us get the workout we want.

Many bikers say they would never ride an e-bike. Several years ago we thought the same. However, never is a long time and at the point one gets where their choice is to ride an e-bike or not ride at all, would they really choose to not ride?

We did consider motorizing our tandem but being able to ride side-by-side is a completely different experience. For now we will keep our tandem as human powered and ride our e-bikes in different venues and times.

Other experiences?

car knocker

I did put a 500w front hub motor on our Periscope two years ago and it's wonderful! It's like a constant tailwind, and the assist going up hills is nice too. The 36v ,13ah battery gives us a range of 50 miles if the terrain is not too hilly,think rail trail,with panniers carrying our clothes on week long trips.I usually keep it on the first level of assist,and only use the throttle starting out on a hill or from a stop. Now if it's hilly the range drops,so you have to pedal more and use the assist less.With my wife recovering from a new knee,which happened 3 months ago,the assist makes it possible for tandeming to be enjoyed by both of us. So for us it's a win .

lichtgrau

I fully agree to what you’ve written. Recently we had some tours with friends who would not have been able to ride with us with their normal bikes any longer and we totally enjoyed the ride together: We ride our “Soulmate” (tandem, no motor) and they have their KTM-bikes (electrified). They are patient with us going up some steeper passages and we are trying not to exceed their max. speed (25 km/h, that’s about 16 mph) in the plain: Everyone is happy.

So, I’m somewhat a fan of E-bikes without even riding one. And I hope to ride with own (muscle) power as long as possible plus looking forward exceeding our active lifetime by having that electric support too...sometimes…

DubT

A little over 2 years ago, I converted our Calfee Tetra to an E-Tandem, I had full technical support from Rob Baird at Calfee.

We now have over 12,000 miles on the conversion and for us there is no turning back, it has made riding together even more enjoyable. We now ride where we want to go without having to take the wind direction into account. If the wind is strong I increase the assist level, our system has 9 levels of assist, it does not have a top speed limit and it is equipped with a throttle. We normally ride in level 2.

Our typical ride is between 30 and 40 miles and we average around 20MPH. Our top pedal speed is limited by our gearing 48/11 and our cadence, stoker does not like going over 90. We can ride at 30 without and problem. The bike will run 36 with just the throttle.

We are able to stay with any group ride and recently rode with an ultra marathon group and did a large percentage of the pace setting.

Alcanbrad

This is timely as we too are are in the 120+yr experience and are about to take our long planned trip to Hawaii. We have decided to not hassle bringing our travel tandem as we will only have 1 or 2 opportunities to ride. My stoker will not ride solo and the only rental tandems seem to be beach cruisers so we are going to rent an electric beach cruiser tandem to try it out. We both are experienced enough to know what to expect from the heavy bike and are looking forward to seeing what possibilities electric would offer us.

My only fear is we won't want to go back to organically propelled.

We'll post our impressions.

DubT

I am almost positive that once you experience the flexibility of the electric bike you will not even want to go back. We can ride ours with the motor off, but why would we want to, it is so much more fun with the motor on.

JanMM

My stoker and I have been riding together for 40+ years. Most of our together riding has been on tandems since 2000, until this past Spring, when she got a Trek Verve+, a class I e-assist hybrid. Cuts out at 20mph, no throttle. She had been advised by a cardiologist to limit her riding to aerobic exercise, only, which took us towards the e-bike. We have been alternating between riding our tandem and riding single bikes together. When we encounter steepish climbs, if we are on the tandem, I kick up my efforts, and if we are on single bikes, she goes up a level on the assist. She loves the Trek, and I enjoy riding with her on one of my recumbent singles. We're finding our tandem rides are averaging a couple of mph slower than when riding singles together. I'm generally riding as fast as I wish, and am challenged to keep up on climbs.

oldacura

What island(s) are you going to?

Sixteen years ago we went to Maui with our coupled tandem and rode up (and down) Haleakala. Our team age at the time was 92. It was the hardest ride we have ever done. 10,000 vertical feet of climbing in about 40 miles. No support. It took us 9 hours to get up (7 hours of pedaling). About 2 hours riding down. I was so exhausted when we got down I could hardly sit up to eat dinner.

Later this month we are going to Kauai. There aren't many roads I would choose to ride on in Kauai. Only 1 road around the island with a lot of tourists driving rental cars. We may rent some single bikes in Kapaa to ride along the bike paths on the east side of the island. I don't think there are any e-bikes to rent.

Let us know how it goes for you.

Alcanbrad

We're starting in Kauia, then a big island, and then Maui. Our only target to ride is on Maui. Most, if not all of our vacations have been cycling centered, we're trying something different this time, though, I will get a ride or two in on a half bike and We'll try the electric tandem.

Will report back! Enjoy your trip as well.

oldacura

Not been to the Big Island. We're staying on the north shore in Kauai. On the east shore is the town of Kapaa. In Kapaa is Kauai Cycles. They rent bikes. I think they have a non-motorized beach-cruiser tandem. There are some pretty good bike paths north & south of Kapaa. I wouldn't suggest riding on the highway around Kauai (too busy).

In Maui is West Maui Cycles. I have never been there but I hear they rent bikes (maybe tandems). I'm not familiar with cycling on Maui except for Haleakala. I've heard that the West Maui Mountains make for good riding. Lots of traffic around the tourist areas of Maui. Riding down to Hana would be a real challenge (and maybe not recommended). I would think that West Maui Cycles would have some good recommendations on where to ride.

Good luck & have fun.

diabloridr

A late datapoint:

In our area one of the rider's was diagnosed with a heart condition and advised to maintain his heart rate below a certain threshold.

Not wanting to give up his friends or sport he bought an e-bike and now sits in the pacelines with everyone else.

E-bikes are nice tool for certain problems.

LakeMI2

With help from Dubt we converted our Co-motion using a Luna kit. It is now our Eco-motion. We are in our late 60’s and can now ride with our children who both ride tandems with their spouses. Even in the hilly areas in MI we can ride 40 mile rides with them and feel good after the ride. We could not ride with them or that long on our own. We are sold on it.

Alcanbrad

We're back and had a wonderful time (and I discovered Mai Tais 🍹&#128578

We ended up not renting an electric or organically propelled tandem. We found the roads either too trafficy or too narrow with too many tourists and my wife was not comfortable attempting to ride. I rented a half bike and rode a couple of dsys on Maui and was not impressed with the riding. To be fair we live in an area with almost limitless rural low/no traffic roads so we are somewhat spoiled.

We have discussed it and intend to try an electric tandem when the opportunity presents itself next.

oldacura

We too just returned from Hawaii (Kauai). We did see a few riders on the main road around the island but I think these people are crazy. The roads are narrow with little or no shoulders and many tourists driving 50 mph on unfamiliar roads in rented cars.

From what I have seen Kauai is not a good place for road bikes.

We did rent some beach cruisers and rode up & down a bikepath along the northeastern shore. This was a short, descent ride but the tradewinds weren't blowing and it was very hot and humid (87 F x 87%).

Monoborracho

We love our coupled Seven Ti, but I'm pretty sure there is a Hawthorne E-Assist with E-shifting somewhere in the not too distant future. I have two friends that have them. One of them put straight bars on instead of drops and says he won't go back. The machines are gorgeous and in my opinion well designed with the battery under the boom tube and the assist on the stoker crank.

twocicle

Just take note the E-Steps so-called "narrow Q-Factor that matches single mtb" is something like 177mm. For my stoker, that is a good 10mm wider than what she can use. Also note, the 1x chainring config, which means using super wide cassettes, which means super wide ratio jumps between gears. These might be acceptable trade offs for some teams to get the E-Steps, but generally all stoker mounted mid-drive solutions are out of the mix for us.

FWIW, there are some tandem builds that put the assist motor up front, which remedies the above issue points, but presents others such as running all the captain + motor power through the (usually same-side drive) timing chain, plus needing to find a non-front eccentric (perhaps using a tension pulley). I would like to do this implementation for a mtb tandem, cause literally dragging my stoker up long steep climbs is not much fun and limits our trail range. Road tandeming is no problem and I don't see getting an assist for that at until we're at least 70yrs... only another decade

jim_pridx

Just curious, but could you possibly tell me what the base price might be for a Hawthorne tandem? I don't see any prices on their website. I don't think we're quite ready for an E-assist bike quite yet, but I'll have to admit that for a couple in our mid-60s, the idea of having one some day intrigues me.

oldacura

My original posting was pointing out that electric single bikes were a different solution to a problem that tandems solve: To allow riders of different abilities to ride together. We have a human powered tandem as well as electric single bikes. We still ride both but the way each solves this problem is quite different.

I find that riding electric single bikes is fun because my wife can ride her own bike and we can ride side-by-side when we like. We both find this very enjoyable.

I doubt that we will ever electrify our tandem. This would add a lot of cost and weight to a bike that we spent a lot of money to make as light as possible. When we get to the point that we can't easily ride under our own power, we will likely just ride the single e-bikes exclusively.

- Just my perspective.

Monoborracho

It will depend on how much customization you want, but from my prelim conversation a couple of years ago, I think you need to be thinking in the 15K+ range for a coupled bike with some customization.

twocicle

On a single bike, my wife tends not to stick close enough to me to make "riding together" as enjoyable as on a tandem. Plus she doesn't do well in busy traffic situations. The tandem alleviates all that, especially when riding in Europe where she would be hopeless on a single - regardless of e-assist or not.

As far as opportunities to ride side-by-side SAFELY... IMO that is probably a lot less often than you think and I am never impressed by people who are inconsiderate enough to do that on bike paths... you know, get in MY way as I/we blast along. LOL. Everyone's perspective is just that. We had kind of a funny write up in the local rag here from one elderly lady who likes to totter along on what was specially built as a bike path. Her perspective was that bikes were not allowed to pass her until she acknowledge your warnings AND told she you it was ok for you to pass. Off topic, but amusing.

FWIW, while I am proficient at riding any bike, I've had enough experience to know that I much dislike trying to ride the tandem among recreational singles. Racers have something of a clue, but not your average non-racer. Oil & Water Don't Mix.

oldacura

Agree with your observations about riding side-by-side. We rarely do it except in ideal conditions. If I am on the inside, I'm always checking behind me for overtaking traffic and/or using a mirror to monitor the situation behind me. I too find it very inconsiderate when riders do this without awareness of those overtaking them. It is also dangerous for all involved.

Monoborracho

We no longer do the Hotter'n Hell 100 for the very reasons you mention. Mixing it up with 15000 singles and a couple of hundred, at the most, tandems just doesn't work.

jim_pridx

Thanks! That's probably not within my budget anytime soon, especially after buying a new Co-Mo earlier this year. They appear to be very nice bikes, though.

twocicle

Yes. In perspective, I've had my fill of "big events" even on my single. Seen too much carnage, bother and expense, and came to the conclusion I'll ride on my own for free thanks.

Monoborracho

The first kick was Tour of Dallas when a guy passed us on the right at a street/45 degree railroad intersection and then crashed in front as his wheel hit the track ditch. I braked and crashed and stoker got bruised and hit her head. I should have run across him. A cop was there and saw it. The rider jumped up to take off and the cop stopped him as he caused it. The kicker for us was when some younger than us triathlon chick cut in front of us on the HH100 and slammed on the brakes for a rest stop. I rolled over her and her bike and stopped in the grass. End of charity rides for us. Most single riders don't have an understanding of the weight-speed-inertia of a tandem.