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Training Status??? (IV)

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Training Status??? (IV)

Old 09-21-20, 09:15 AM
  #15351  
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In my experience I need to be really fresh for the limiter to be my aerobic system. If I have any sort of (even mild) fatigue, pain in my legs is the limiter.
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Old 09-21-20, 09:51 AM
  #15352  
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Originally Posted by TheKillerPenguin View Post
I would wager my FTP is between 355 and 360 but I really haven't tested this year. GoldenCheetah says 360, but when I do ftp by feel I tend to settle in around 357-358. Earlier this week my 3x20 were just below 360, yesterday my by feel 1x29 was 352 with a higher NP due to rolling uphill, tight turns, and such, but I could have done more.

I wouldn't say my legs give out per se, it's just obvious that they fatigue more quickly than my lungs do. For example, 3x20 day didn't really feel like much aerobically but my legs were not so happy by the last interval. So I am trying to figure out how to get legs and lungs to fatigue at roughly the same rate, but maybe that's not really possible.
Even during 20' intervals some portion of your power is going to be produced anaerobically. Maybe only a 5%, but that 5% is most likely what is causing your legs to "fail". Improving vo2 and efficiency is going to allow more of that power to be produced purely aerobically, increase the time to failure and increase your 20-60' power. Improving lactate clearance will allow you to use more of the anaerobic glycolytic system, while being able to keep blood lactate levels lower. Some of the 'efficiency' can be gained with low cadence / high muscle tension work, so you need less muscle fibers recruited to generate the same power. You might also do some 5-10' intervals as well to work on lactate clearance and possibly bump up vo2. Doing long endurance rides will also help improve stroke volume, not just at the beginning of a ride, but allow you to keep the higher stroke volume during longer rides. Lots of people don't understand that the reason the pros have the same FTP at the beginning of the race as at the end of the race is because of that. Lot of text book stuff, this isn't anything I came up with on my own. Hopefully it helps.

That's a lot of power too man, I'm jealous lol.
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Old 09-21-20, 12:08 PM
  #15353  
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Question.........is it also kind of normal that the less trained an individual is, the more the VO2 contribution to that aerobic power will be? Kind of like how someone like me is closer to 92% for hour vs 20min power compared to a pro who might be more like 95% ?

Either way.....over 500 TSS last week. Legit. Before last week I had failed to play nanny with TP to correct the rTSS to HRTSS. I feel the rTSS might reflect how you feel when tossing runs into bike stuff, but as for actual "fitness" I think the HRTSS works better for me. I thought about going for 30min easy at lunch today.......legs said nah. Taco lunch day.
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Old 09-21-20, 12:33 PM
  #15354  
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Also, I learned this weekend that teams are not needed to win UCI world tour stage races and having some baby fat is okay. I want to be on Tadej Pogačar’s diet - I think.
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Old 09-21-20, 12:36 PM
  #15355  
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Originally Posted by procrit View Post
Even during 20' intervals some portion of your power is going to be produced anaerobically. Maybe only a 5%, but that 5% is most likely what is causing your legs to "fail". Improving vo2 and efficiency is going to allow more of that power to be produced purely aerobically, increase the time to failure and increase your 20-60' power. Improving lactate clearance will allow you to use more of the anaerobic glycolytic system, while being able to keep blood lactate levels lower. Some of the 'efficiency' can be gained with low cadence / high muscle tension work, so you need less muscle fibers recruited to generate the same power. You might also do some 5-10' intervals as well to work on lactate clearance and possibly bump up vo2. Doing long endurance rides will also help improve stroke volume, not just at the beginning of a ride, but allow you to keep the higher stroke volume during longer rides. Lots of people don't understand that the reason the pros have the same FTP at the beginning of the race as at the end of the race is because of that. Lot of text book stuff, this isn't anything I came up with on my own. Hopefully it helps.

That's a lot of power too man, I'm jealous lol.
Well, the thing is this is across the power curve, I used FTP as the example because I'm doing a lot of FTP lately. With tempo it obviously takes longer but still happens, vo2 is the same deal - always legs before lungs.

It is interesting you talk about low cadence work, a rower I know just recommended the same thing. I guess in rowing the aerobically-skewed will do some Rocky 4 **** like drag a can on a string behind the boat to develop power per stroke.

RE: watts, there's always a bigger fish...
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Old 09-21-20, 02:11 PM
  #15356  
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Try a flying (no standing start) pursuit style efforts on the road with high cadence 110 -120 rpm or 2-3’ @ 140%. That should jack up your breathing. Legs may still crap out but your lungs will burn...more. I may cough for an hour or more after a pursuit race.
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Old 09-21-20, 03:41 PM
  #15357  
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Originally Posted by TheKillerPenguin View Post
Well, the thing is this is across the power curve, I used FTP as the example because I'm doing a lot of FTP lately. With tempo it obviously takes longer but still happens, vo2 is the same deal - always legs before lungs.

It is interesting you talk about low cadence work, a rower I know just recommended the same thing. I guess in rowing the aerobically-skewed will do some Rocky 4 **** like drag a can on a string behind the boat to develop power per stroke.

RE: watts, there's always a bigger fish...
Have you ever done a 3 minute critical power test?
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Old 09-21-20, 04:14 PM
  #15358  
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Yep, a bunch of 3-4min max efforts in the books. I mean I can taste blood after doing that sort of thing, but it's never my lungs that make me slow down, it's my legs.
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Old 09-21-20, 05:46 PM
  #15359  
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Originally Posted by TheKillerPenguin View Post
Yep, a bunch of 3-4min max efforts in the books. I mean I can taste blood after doing that sort of thing, but it's never my lungs that make me slow down, it's my legs.
Sounds like you need to channel Jens Voigt and just tell your legs to shut up lol.
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Old 09-22-20, 01:15 AM
  #15360  
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Originally Posted by TheKillerPenguin View Post
Well, the thing is this is across the power curve, I used FTP as the example because I'm doing a lot of FTP lately. With tempo it obviously takes longer but still happens, vo2 is the same deal - always legs before lungs.

It is interesting you talk about low cadence work, a rower I know just recommended the same thing. I guess in rowing the aerobically-skewed will do some Rocky 4 **** like drag a can on a string behind the boat to develop power per stroke.

RE: watts, there's always a bigger fish...

Back in the day we'd use 36 hole big gauge spoke box rims with heavy tires for training. I have no idea if it made things faster on race day, but I guess we broke less carbon in training. Welp, I guess there wasn't really carbon then.
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