BNB

I am looking for the lightest custom steel frame road bike. I've only read about True Temper S3 on a couple websites that talk about sub 2.5 pound TT S3 frames. I've contacted a few custom builders and several have come back with Columbus SL. How to compare these? I am 115 pounds, do rocky trail sections to commute to my mostly hilly group road rides. Would appreciate any polite advice or suggestions.

TIA.

waterlaz

There is no way a Columbus SL frame is going to weigh 2.5 pounds. I'd expect 3.5 at best and more close to 4 pounds.
My Columbus SL frame is 1750g (3.8-3.9 pounds)

unterhausen

even at your weight, you might be better off with a little bit stouter frame than the S3 given your stated riding conditions. An S3 bike would be fine for you on the road, obviously, but rocky trails would probably be pushing it a little. It's too bad that SL doesn't come in thinner sections.

Scooper

The "new" SL (Niobium alloy instead of Cyclex like the 1980s SL) has 0.8mm/0.5mm/0.8mm walls, while the original 80s Cyclex SL had 0.9mm/0.6mm/0.9mm.





Columbus Spirit, also Niobium alloy, has even thinner walls (0.5mm/0.38mm/0.5mm), but with the OP's intended use on rocky trails even at his weight, Spirit might be pushing it.

Road Fan

Scooper, how is the new SL "triple butted?" I guess I've never really known what that means.

It looks really good, I might want to have my broken Mondonico re-tubed after all, in Columbus 8-5-8!

Scooper

In this case, it's Italian for "double butted."

BNB

thanks for the specs. "his" is a "her". not too many 115 pound men ...

Scooper

Oops! Sorry. The picture in your avatar looks to me like a guy.

Andrew R Stewart 

BITD I built a frame using Columbus KL. Traditional diameters but .7/.4 walls IIRC. Frame ended up at just over 3lbs. I was around 125/130lbs and about 5' 6" at that time and the frame was WAY flexi. felt like it had wings going up and like it had a loose hinge going down the hills of the Finger lakes. (reminds me of what Andy Hampsten once said about the too light climbing bikes in the then pros. "only thing scarier then descending on one is not having one while climbing").

I would think a .8/.5 walled tube set would build up to a 3.5/3.75 frame (in a small size). A .9/.6 walled tube set gets you a 4/4.25lb frame in a small size. Andy

Scooper

That's interesting, Andy.

I'm 6' tall and weigh 185. My 61cm Waterford frame (Reynolds 953) weighs 3.6 pounds and has .5/.3/.5 top tube and .6/.4/.6 down tube (tubing is OS), and the stiffness is indistinguishable from my 61cm standard diameter 531 Paramount with a frame weight of a little over 5 pounds. Both bikes have virtually the same geometry.

The OS diameter tubing provides essentially the same stiffness at a significant savings in weight.

BNB

That's funny because yours looks like a girl! Ha! What's this world coming to!

Andrew R Stewart 

Of course the torsional stiffness of a tube is far greater (being geometrical) with increasing diameters. But we know that. And with increased strength (not to be confused with stiffness) a thinner walled tube suffers less "beer canning". Andy, (who is enjoying a Great lakes Edmund Fitzgerald porter right now.)

Scooper

That photo is from the 'big hair' years (1972). I was 30.

The hair is white now.

BNB

Definitely not a girl in this photo.

Thanks again for the tech info.

JohnDThompson 

Not sure about the new SL, but the old Japanese "triple-butted" tubes added a butt where braze-ons were likely to be placed.

Scooper

That's interesting, John.

Ishiwata used the term "triple-butted" to describe tubing that had different wall thicknesses at the butted ends (T1 and T3 in the illustration below).



Columbus seems to use it to describe any tubing that has three wall thicknesses, e.g. end butt/center section/end butt, even if the end butts have the same wall thickness. IOW, Columbus describes tubes most of us call "double-butted" as "triple-butted".

Miyata claimed its tubing was triple-butted in the same way Ishiwata did.

Road Fan

Andy, then your KL frame tubes were similar to OX Plat in standard diameter, which is 0.4 mm rather than S3 at 0.3 mm.

duanedr 

R&E Cycles makes some of their Rodriguez frames with S3 and they have one built up in the shop and it's very light. Not my thing but, amazing nonetheless. I would call them and ask about their experience and recommendations.

busdriver1959

I just tried S3 for the first time. The frame came out at just over 1400 grams without paint and the built up bike without pedals is 14.8 lbs. That's with a SRAM Red group and a couple of weight weenie choices on the other stuff. It was also my first time trying Fillet Pro. Overall, the bike rides well, as a steel bike often does. There are no issues with flex at all. I'm sure the 38mm downtube has something to do with that. I can't speak to durability since I only have a couple of hundred miles on it.

edit: I forgot to say, the frame size is 56cm.

squirtdad

just a thought: look at total build weight not just frame. Like are are you willing to go tubular to save weight ? is it worth it to have a little stronger frame and make up for the difference in the rest of the build. Very personal vision thing i know

BNB

Can you post pics of your bike? Very interested.

Nessism

S3 is nifty and all but with a small frame size you gotta select your tubes carefully or after the tube it cut to size there may not be any butt left on one side.

Scooper

True Temper apparently offers (or used to offer) S3 tubesets in three sizes with different length center sections for small, medium, and large frames.

busdriver1959

The Ipad isn't cooperating. I'll upload more when I get home in a week.
The wheels are American Classic hubs laced to Velocity clincher rims. Seatpost is American Classic also. Saddle, bars and integrated stem are Chinese carbon. I have a death wish. The 90 degree stem isn't my first choice. I know the brake lever position violates the rule that the lever tips are even with the drops. Since I never try to ride holding onto the tips, I position the hoods where I like them instead.

BNB

Nice looking bike. Like the corks. Riding comfortably is way more important than following "the rules".