Team Ineos is finished!
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: South Carolina Upstate
Posts: 2,105
Bikes: 2010 Fuji Absolute 3.0 1994 Trek 850
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 762 Post(s)
Liked 555 Times
in
322 Posts
Team Ineos is finished!
from the most dominant cycling team maybe ever (beside Merckx). No Froome, No Thomas
what happened and how did it happen so quickly??
what happened and how did it happen so quickly??
#2
Senior Member
Their current form looks awful compared to what we are used to seeing, but I think it's premature to say they're altogether finished.
Bernal is still so young and they have the largest of any team budget, I'm thinking they'll remain near the top even if they don't dominate as they have in recent years.
But certainly they've had some setbacks . . .
Froome sustained a career-threatening injury and he's in his mid-30s so his form has dropped understandably.
Thomas, I wonder if he's had a hard time training effectively and staying race-fit during the lockdown. He didn't look strong in the Dauphine.
Sivakov has crashed twice already in this TDF and it's unclear how hurt he is, how effective he can be, etc
I have no reason to doubt Bernal, but I wonder if he will prove durable enough to be a repeat Grand Tour champ for years ahead . . . provided he has the team in place to support him.
Bernal is still so young and they have the largest of any team budget, I'm thinking they'll remain near the top even if they don't dominate as they have in recent years.
But certainly they've had some setbacks . . .
Froome sustained a career-threatening injury and he's in his mid-30s so his form has dropped understandably.
Thomas, I wonder if he's had a hard time training effectively and staying race-fit during the lockdown. He didn't look strong in the Dauphine.
Sivakov has crashed twice already in this TDF and it's unclear how hurt he is, how effective he can be, etc
I have no reason to doubt Bernal, but I wonder if he will prove durable enough to be a repeat Grand Tour champ for years ahead . . . provided he has the team in place to support him.
Last edited by jimmyodonnell; 08-31-20 at 02:45 PM.
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 5,750
Bikes: 2022 Salsa Beargrease Carbon Deore 11, 2020 Salsa Warbird GRX 600, 2020 Canyon Ultimate CF SLX disc 9.0 Di2, 2020 Catrike Eola, 2016 Masi cxgr, 2011, Felt F3 Ltd, 2010 Trek 2.1, 2009 KHS Flite 220
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4361 Post(s)
Liked 3,000 Times
in
1,853 Posts
Bernal is the defending champion and Carapaz won the 2019 GIro. What did Thomas and Froome achieve in 2019?
#4
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: South Carolina Upstate
Posts: 2,105
Bikes: 2010 Fuji Absolute 3.0 1994 Trek 850
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 762 Post(s)
Liked 555 Times
in
322 Posts
When I saw Jumbo Visma all riding at the front of the peleton on day 2, I was thinking ok, Ineos will match that and string this thing out, but they could not.
I've only been watching the tour for 5-6 years, and Sky/Ineos have dominated every one. Always able to ride to the front as a team and make the field suffer, but not now. They look weak
have seen Froome win 3 tours, Thomas 1. Things change quickly I guess
I've only been watching the tour for 5-6 years, and Sky/Ineos have dominated every one. Always able to ride to the front as a team and make the field suffer, but not now. They look weak
have seen Froome win 3 tours, Thomas 1. Things change quickly I guess
#5
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 5,750
Bikes: 2022 Salsa Beargrease Carbon Deore 11, 2020 Salsa Warbird GRX 600, 2020 Canyon Ultimate CF SLX disc 9.0 Di2, 2020 Catrike Eola, 2016 Masi cxgr, 2011, Felt F3 Ltd, 2010 Trek 2.1, 2009 KHS Flite 220
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4361 Post(s)
Liked 3,000 Times
in
1,853 Posts
When I saw Jumbo Visma all riding at the front of the peleton on day 2, I was thinking ok, Ineos will match that and string this thing out, but they could not.
I've only been watching the tour for 5-6 years, and Sky/Ineos have dominated every one. Always able to ride to the front as a team and make the field suffer, but not now. They look weak
have seen Froome win 3 tours, Thomas 1. Things change quickly I guess
I've only been watching the tour for 5-6 years, and Sky/Ineos have dominated every one. Always able to ride to the front as a team and make the field suffer, but not now. They look weak
have seen Froome win 3 tours, Thomas 1. Things change quickly I guess
Froome and Thomas's absence this year has nothing to do with whether the team can control the peloton. The stars don't do that work and so, you are confusing the identity of their stars with the depth of their team. Time will tell about the latter.
Presumably you also watched Bernal win the tour last year. Doesn't he count to Sky/Ineos's credit? His absence from your list of recent Sky/Ineos tour winners raises some suspicions.
Likes For MinnMan:
#6
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 5,750
Bikes: 2022 Salsa Beargrease Carbon Deore 11, 2020 Salsa Warbird GRX 600, 2020 Canyon Ultimate CF SLX disc 9.0 Di2, 2020 Catrike Eola, 2016 Masi cxgr, 2011, Felt F3 Ltd, 2010 Trek 2.1, 2009 KHS Flite 220
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4361 Post(s)
Liked 3,000 Times
in
1,853 Posts
Also, you watched one mountain stage (in which both Bernal and Carapaz finished with no effective time penalty) and declared the team with the defending champion as "finished!" Either you have a crystal ball or you are jumping to conclusions based on a small sample.
I for one never rooted for Sky/Ineos in the Wiggins/Froome/Thomas days. Froome was never endearing to me plus the feeling that Sky's greatest strength was really just its fatter wallet left me cold. On the other hand, to me Bernal and Carapaz are much more sympathetic. Carapaz more than Bernal, perhaps because I also love Ecuador.
If all of you trash talk Sky/Ineos enough, I just might find myself rooting for them.
I for one never rooted for Sky/Ineos in the Wiggins/Froome/Thomas days. Froome was never endearing to me plus the feeling that Sky's greatest strength was really just its fatter wallet left me cold. On the other hand, to me Bernal and Carapaz are much more sympathetic. Carapaz more than Bernal, perhaps because I also love Ecuador.
If all of you trash talk Sky/Ineos enough, I just might find myself rooting for them.
Last edited by MinnMan; 08-31-20 at 02:26 PM.
Likes For MinnMan:
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Missouri
Posts: 2,690
Bikes: Giant Propel, Cannondale SuperX, Univega Alpina Ultima
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 672 Post(s)
Liked 417 Times
in
249 Posts
Pay a little attention to strategy and races other than the TdF. Ineos is doing just fine, and they're riding for the reigning champ. He's 17 seconds behind the leader on stage 3, so he's in fine shape, with the mountains coming up. Nobody wants to take yellow on stage 1 and defend it for the entire tour.
Froome's accident last year took a substantial toll, he's leaving Ineos for Israel Startup Nation at the end of the season, and the TdF has reduced team sizes this year, so it's no surprise Brailsford opted to put his faith in Bernal. Froome and Thomas will each have dedicated support for the Giro and the Vuelta, so it's not as if Ineos just left $10 million dollars in salary lounging around the pool.
Froome's accident last year took a substantial toll, he's leaving Ineos for Israel Startup Nation at the end of the season, and the TdF has reduced team sizes this year, so it's no surprise Brailsford opted to put his faith in Bernal. Froome and Thomas will each have dedicated support for the Giro and the Vuelta, so it's not as if Ineos just left $10 million dollars in salary lounging around the pool.
__________________
Formerly fastest rider in the grupetto, currently slowest guy in the peloton
Formerly fastest rider in the grupetto, currently slowest guy in the peloton
#8
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: South Carolina Upstate
Posts: 2,105
Bikes: 2010 Fuji Absolute 3.0 1994 Trek 850
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 762 Post(s)
Liked 555 Times
in
322 Posts
didn't mean to exclude Bernal, he is great as well, and it's true most of my cycling viewing is the Tour. I guess time will tell
Likes For Flip Flop Rider:
#9
bored of "Senior Member"
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: MD / metro DC
Posts: 2,883
Bikes: Cross-Check/Nexus commuter. Several others for various forms of play.
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 642 Post(s)
Liked 592 Times
in
453 Posts
I didn't see JV, UAE, Bahrain Merida, or Arkea Samsic drilling it on the front into the 3k mark. The marginal gains from a well oiled and still capable machine will mount up.
#10
velo-dilettante
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: insane diego, california
Posts: 8,311
Bikes: 85 pinarello treviso steel, 88 nishiki olympic steel. 95 look kg 131 carbon, 11 trek madone 5.2 carbon
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1626 Post(s)
Liked 3,112 Times
in
1,682 Posts
not worried about ineos...they'll be just fine. i am a little worried about sivakov tho...had excellent form but has done a lot of pavement surfing
ranked him as one of the last guys to pull off driving the ineos/bernal mountain train with only carapaz remaining afterwards. sivakov has finished
waay down the ladder/nearly dfl on all three stages so far. hoping he can recover and show off the form he had.
ranked him as one of the last guys to pull off driving the ineos/bernal mountain train with only carapaz remaining afterwards. sivakov has finished
waay down the ladder/nearly dfl on all three stages so far. hoping he can recover and show off the form he had.
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Posts: 877
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 528 Post(s)
Liked 230 Times
in
161 Posts
The current TdF and Giro champion in one team and it is "finished"?
Hyperbolic statement. If you mean their dominance is finished, maybe still to see what happens. For sure TJV and others are stronger and will contest Bernal, but that's about it.
Hyperbolic statement. If you mean their dominance is finished, maybe still to see what happens. For sure TJV and others are stronger and will contest Bernal, but that's about it.
#12
Newbie
It does seem a little early to say they are finished. But, based on the Dauphine and the early TDF, they are going to have to really improve and work to defend Bernal's title from last year. Certainly JV looks strong. Imagine how they would look if Kruijswijk was present and healthy. Honestly, one team can't dominate in any sport year after year, without another team eventually catching and surpassing them. But, just one crash or missed break, and the tables could turn quickly!
#13
Rider. Wanderer. Creator.
Join Date: May 2007
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 763
Bikes: Bike Friday Pocket Rocket, Cinelli Hobootleg, Zizzo Liberte
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 389 Post(s)
Liked 768 Times
in
372 Posts
Also, you watched one mountain stage (in which both Bernal and Carapaz finished with no effective time penalty) and declared the team with the defending champion as "finished!" Either you have a crystal ball or you are jumping to conclusions based on a small sample.
I for one never rooted for Sky/Ineos in the Wiggins/Froome/Thomas days. Froome was never endearing to me plus the feeling that Sky's greatest strength was really just its fatter wallet left me cold. On the other hand, to me Bernal and Carapaz are much more sympathetic. Carapaz more than Bernal, perhaps because I also love Ecuador.
If all of you trash talk Sky/Ineos enough, I just might find myself rooting for them.
I for one never rooted for Sky/Ineos in the Wiggins/Froome/Thomas days. Froome was never endearing to me plus the feeling that Sky's greatest strength was really just its fatter wallet left me cold. On the other hand, to me Bernal and Carapaz are much more sympathetic. Carapaz more than Bernal, perhaps because I also love Ecuador.
If all of you trash talk Sky/Ineos enough, I just might find myself rooting for them.
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 5,750
Bikes: 2022 Salsa Beargrease Carbon Deore 11, 2020 Salsa Warbird GRX 600, 2020 Canyon Ultimate CF SLX disc 9.0 Di2, 2020 Catrike Eola, 2016 Masi cxgr, 2011, Felt F3 Ltd, 2010 Trek 2.1, 2009 KHS Flite 220
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4361 Post(s)
Liked 3,000 Times
in
1,853 Posts
#15
velo-dilettante
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: insane diego, california
Posts: 8,311
Bikes: 85 pinarello treviso steel, 88 nishiki olympic steel. 95 look kg 131 carbon, 11 trek madone 5.2 carbon
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1626 Post(s)
Liked 3,112 Times
in
1,682 Posts
sivakov finished at the tail end again. didn't watch any of the stage today so dunno if he made early contributions and then bounced
or was holding on for dear life the entire time.
or was holding on for dear life the entire time.
#16
I'm good to go!
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 14,945
Bikes: Tarmac Disc Comp Di2 - 2020
Mentioned: 51 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6173 Post(s)
Liked 4,790 Times
in
3,305 Posts
When you are at the top so long everyone else gets to analyze your tactics and figures out how to respond. It's not unexpected and in some ways becomes more interesting.
Still, too early to count anyone out. Lets see whats happening at the end. While I don't root for Sky/Ineos, they've brought a lot of seemingly good methods and strategies of training and racing to the forefront, whether their own idea or just realizing the importance of something long known but little considered.
Still, too early to count anyone out. Lets see whats happening at the end. While I don't root for Sky/Ineos, they've brought a lot of seemingly good methods and strategies of training and racing to the forefront, whether their own idea or just realizing the importance of something long known but little considered.
#17
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Posts: 877
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 528 Post(s)
Liked 230 Times
in
161 Posts
Wouldn't call it more interesting. TJV does exactly the same now, control the pace, no one attacks, and Primoz drills it the last 500-1000m. Rinse and repeat. Stage 4 was a copy of both Tour de l'Ain and Dauphine pre crashes. Stage 6 today wasn't because there were no bonus seconds to be had and apart from Alaphillipe gaining 1 second, it was completely controlled by Primoz.
#19
Señor Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Hardy, VA
Posts: 17,921
Bikes: Mostly English - predominantly Raleighs
Mentioned: 70 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1491 Post(s)
Liked 1,087 Times
in
637 Posts
Wouldn't call it more interesting. TJV does exactly the same now, control the pace, no one attacks, and Primoz drills it the last 500-1000m. Rinse and repeat. Stage 4 was a copy of both Tour de l'Ain and Dauphine pre crashes. Stage 6 today wasn't because there were no bonus seconds to be had and apart from Alaphillipe gaining 1 second, it was completely controlled by Primoz.
This said, I do agree with you about the tactics. It worked for US Postal/Discovery, a bit less well for CSC and Astana, and then again for Sky/Ineos. Until there are more radical changes (eliminating team radios is possibly the only thing that might be realisiticaly enforceable), there's little hope for team tactics to change. If you find a rider who's a great climber and a superior time-trialist, you hire him and surround him with domestiques to protect him who can set the pace going up the big climbs fast enough to render attacks by other GC contenders suicidal - rinse and repeat.
__________________
In search of what to search for.
In search of what to search for.
#20
I'm good to go!
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 14,945
Bikes: Tarmac Disc Comp Di2 - 2020
Mentioned: 51 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6173 Post(s)
Liked 4,790 Times
in
3,305 Posts
If you only watch the tours to see all out balls to the wall performance then it will be boring. An understanding of all the competitions for different things within the overall competition makes even the relatively event-less till near the end stage 6 interesting.
Likes For Iride01:
#21
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Posts: 877
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 528 Post(s)
Liked 230 Times
in
161 Posts
You didn't watch the same stage 6 that I did. The organizers created a masterful stage, but only a handful of riders with no Grand Tour ambitions took the bait. You can't blame that on TJL.
This said, I do agree with you about the tactics. It worked for US Postal/Discovery, a bit less well for CSC and Astana, and then again for Sky/Ineos. Until there are more radical changes (eliminating team radios is possibly the only thing that might be realisiticaly enforceable), there's little hope for team tactics to change. If you find a rider who's a great climber and a superior time-trialist, you hire him and surround him with domestiques to protect him who can set the pace going up the big climbs fast enough to render attacks by other GC contenders suicidal - rinse and repeat.
This said, I do agree with you about the tactics. It worked for US Postal/Discovery, a bit less well for CSC and Astana, and then again for Sky/Ineos. Until there are more radical changes (eliminating team radios is possibly the only thing that might be realisiticaly enforceable), there's little hope for team tactics to change. If you find a rider who's a great climber and a superior time-trialist, you hire him and surround him with domestiques to protect him who can set the pace going up the big climbs fast enough to render attacks by other GC contenders suicidal - rinse and repeat.
#22
Señor Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Hardy, VA
Posts: 17,921
Bikes: Mostly English - predominantly Raleighs
Mentioned: 70 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1491 Post(s)
Liked 1,087 Times
in
637 Posts
Well this stage for sure was different. TJV had 6 at the front for a long time but then the pace went up and they dropped like flies, then Poga attacked and the favorites got torn apart. Though the 2nd group finished just what, 11 seconds behind so not that much lost. Still 7 riders within 1 minute. Poga looks strongest right now. He kept up despite attacking yesterday.
__________________
In search of what to search for.
In search of what to search for.
Likes For USAZorro:
#23
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Posts: 877
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 528 Post(s)
Liked 230 Times
in
161 Posts
It has become a very rare thing for there to be a rider who is consistently strong enough to put in attacks and make them stick. It is even rarer for them to no have a director who dictates that they only counter-attack. I guess Stephens and Peiper are smart enough to know what they have, and realize that the strategy that's been in ascendance of the past 30 years isn't suited for their rider. It doesn't hurt that he's strong enough to put time into everyone else when he picks his points to make his attacks. Reminds me of Contador in some respects - but with a better instinct for winning a contested sprint.
#24
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: San Mateo,Ca.
Posts: 3,984
Bikes: TRIMMED DOWN THE HERD
Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1090 Post(s)
Liked 935 Times
in
600 Posts
I think they are now. Bernal couldn't even keep up with the others today. Finished a measly 18th with almost no one else from Ineos around him. Good. Not an Ineos fan anyway.
#25
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 5,750
Bikes: 2022 Salsa Beargrease Carbon Deore 11, 2020 Salsa Warbird GRX 600, 2020 Canyon Ultimate CF SLX disc 9.0 Di2, 2020 Catrike Eola, 2016 Masi cxgr, 2011, Felt F3 Ltd, 2010 Trek 2.1, 2009 KHS Flite 220
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4361 Post(s)
Liked 3,000 Times
in
1,853 Posts
Well, now Ineos is finished.
Likes For MinnMan: