noodle soup

What are common hubs?

I understand the spoke comment(non-proprietary), but what is a common hub?

BillyD

Question: WHY can't you guys answer the very simple question put forth by the OP without finding something(s) to argue about and personally attacking one another?

vespasianus

Things like Hope, DT, etc are hubs in my mind that provide bearings and tools to repair and replace things if you need.The offer easy conversion kits to go from 135mm hubs to 142mm hubs and so on. The novatec, bitex, and other forumula hubs like that are hard to repair or modify. Wheelset with hubs like that are basically disposable.

noodle soup

Cassette bodies are usually proprietary,no matter which brand. It's not easy to find proprietary parts for for junk like formula, but the others are available.

guadzilla

What is wrong with arguing in response to a question?

(I kid. I can sense the facepalm emanating from you. Deservedly so. Bikeforums and Slowtwitch probably have the highest cases of people just not willing to let things go and absolutely obsessed with getting the last word in. I blame the bicycle saddle).

colnago62

hubs such DT Swiss whose design, product and parts are used by other manufacturers. Chris King hubs are very proprietary, for example, compared to a DT Swiss or Shimano hub.

colnago62

The behavior has been allowed for so long that I am pretty sure there are people who come just to Insult and belittle someone. This behavior doesn’t seem to happen in the track forum. There are some strong personalities there that squash that behavior quickly. It simply is not tolerated.

hubcyclist

To dive into the debate (hopefully constructively), I think whenever people ask about wheel upgrades a valid question to have people think about is "what do you think you'll get out of it?" Yeah, people have the ability to spend money however they want, but I think it's fair to have folks consider if they really want to spend $1k for what I believe amounts to a few mins over the course of a long ride. For example, if I took a recent century ride I did in 5:14 using the stock Axis Sport wheels, how many mins would a reasonably nice set of wheels get for me? 5-10? Everyone has their own personal thoughts on what the value of performance is, but to me, that time savings, even added up across rides, definitely isn't enough to justify the expense of something around $1k (which is more than the bike cost in my case lol).

It may be different for someone else, which is fine, but I think it's always valid to put the question out there when people are considering upgrading wheels, because they may think of things differently if, say, the performance benefit isn't as great as they initially envisioned or whatever, and in some cases it might be worth investing in other aspects of getting fitter/faster (not to say nice wheels are reserved for only those who train, but training obviously has a big hand in this).

vespasianus

Yup, which makes them basically disposable as they are usually made of soft aluminum that gets chewed up by the cassette.

vespasianus

Yeah, but light carbon wheels just feel soooo good! (:

hubcyclist

Perhaps, I wouldn't know! lol Also, for me I've ridden outside a grand total of 5 days this entire year, so wheels aren't going to make a difference on the trainer!

rubiksoval

I ostensibly agree with this, and wheels were my very last upgrade after 3 years of riding shallow, al wheels. They came after ensuring I had the best value helmet (in terms of max speed for a particular budget), best value tubes/tires, much shorter crank arms (from 172.5 to 165mm) to maximize fit. and an aero cockpit that also served to improve fit (including going from 42cm to 38 cm bars, and a 110mm to 130mm stem).

If I had to do it all over again, and there weren't budget constraints, I'd knock all of those things out in one fell swoop along with some 55-65mm wheels, but I think it's a sensible progression in so far as really maximizing speed per $ and not just buying something for the sake of buying something.

The most heinous performance faux paus I see is expensive, aero carbon wheels with gatorskins or some other such tire. I fully understand not being able to optimize fit, and not wanting to deal with internal cable routing/handelbars, and maybe choosing a particular helmet or clothing for comfort, but I simply can't get my head around the reasoning of getting aero wheels for performance purposes and then intentionally slowing them down with anti-performance tires.

Long story short, there's typically much lower hanging speed available for significantly less money.

Of course, at the end of the day, if the only reasoning needed is that they look cooler, I can also get behind that...

Koyote

Thank you for this very constructive post.

I think the related question - and maybe this is implicit in your suggestion - is "What kind of riding are you doing?" When I see these posts about fancy deep-section cf wheels, the posters rarely mention racing. Yeah, I get it: riding faster, either with your friends, or on Strava segments, or just for your own thrills, is fun; but to me (only speaking for me), that doesn't justify spending big money for equipment that is often less reliable than the stuff that costs less money. Even when I was road racing, I didn't see the point in spending huge money just to move up a couple spots in an amateur category.

I think that, for many riders, the equipment is sort of an arms race: everyone is trying to keep up, and hence no one gains an advantage in the long-run. And the gains are actually pretty small anyway, when you do the math. A person would, in many cases, gain more performance by spending less money and taking more time off from work for real training.

rubiksoval

Uhh, if you're trying to gain speed, then yes, everyone gains. Especially because most people aren't racing each other in the first place.

This isn't an either/or situation. Not sure why you're trying to turn it into one.

Koyote

I think my points didn't get across to you.

The question is: why is the rider trying to gain speed? If it is to keep up with other riders, then faster equipment is indeed like an arms race: everyone spends money on more weapons, and no one gains an advantage.

Regarding the second point: it may be an either/or situation: work more and earn money for equipment, or work less in order to ride more. Sure, plenty of people don't have that option - work hours are invariate. But they are often more flexible than that. If I taught summer school every year, I could've bought fancier bikes; but I gained more (in terms of riding speed, strength) by using that time to ride and do other workouts. Oh, and by spending more time laying on the couch, too.

ericcox

With extreme trepidation, I'm jumping in. I used to ride a lot / race on occasion. For the last decade+, I've spent way more time on my kids' activities. They're older now and with Covid, there have been way less kids activities + both kids like riding to an extent now. I have now ridden more miles in the last several months than I did in the past 6-7 years combined. Back in the day, I spent a fair amount on a pretty good Orbea with Ultegra. A few years ago, I bough a cheaper bike with 105 as it was all I needed (and really it was overkill for what I was riding at the time).

I'm not planning on racing, but I am riding a lot right now and plan to keep putting in miles the way I did in the past. I'm racing against myself if anything, though I will be joining in faster group rides as conditions warrant it. I bought some very cheap carbon wheels this summer because I wanted to. Yes, they're a little more aerodynamic than what I had, and they are definitely lighter. I could have spent a lot more on nicer ones, but decided to go cheap because back when I was racing, I couldn't afford them. So I bought them. Am I faster? Maybe, but it probably has more to do with the miles I'm putting in. I also just bought I power meter because I'm interested in the power data. I've always enjoyed pouring through information; the power data gives me more to look at. Oh, and right now I'm running gatorskins because some of the roads I ride on are atrocious - I actually flatted yesterday. I'm switching back to Rubinos when these wear out, however.

So what's the point of this? These little purchases are like rewards to myself. They aren't about massive gains, but they help incentivize me to put in more miles. Not everyone needs that incentive. Good for you. Others want to gain speed and have made every little upgrade to do so.

So... if someone wants something new, I think it is reasonable to ask what the priorities are: speed, longevity, cost, etc., and help them balance that. I went super cheap on Superteam wheels because speed was ostensibly a concern, but speed wasn't worth $1000 or $1500 to me. If they break after a few thousand miles, I won't be crushed.

I guess what I'm saying is can't we all just get along :-).

Kimmo 

If there are many folks like me (and I've learnt not to bank on that), another reason, perhaps the main reason, is that they're in love with the machine, and want a prime example just for the sake of it. A thing of beauty is a joy forever.

noodle soup

+1

For about a year, I've been searching for a great price on some 5th generation Campagnolo Delta brakes. I know they don't work better than the Chorus Monoplaners, but they are beautiful.

I rarely ride this bike, but I still want her to have Delta calipers.