zacster

While I was out riding the other day I was applying maximum (for me anyway) pressure on my front wheel while mashing up a hill and I was hearing the sounds of the spokes. When I was nearly done with the ride I noticed that the wheel was wobbling a bit and found a loose spoke. OK, no surprise. I took out my tension gauge and went around the wheel and found the tension on one side was all over the place but the other side was still pretty consistent. So I tried to bring all the tension back up and when I got to the loose one I realized that the nipple had broken and that's why it was loose. But it was very difficult to get the old broken nipple off and I used WD-40 and vice grips and was eventually able to free it up.

When I went to re-true the wheel after all of this I found that all the spokes on the other side were seized and I couldn't turn any of them. And somewhere in the process I broke the flat portion off with the spoke wrench on two other spokes.

The wheel is a Velomax/Easton Orion from about 10-15 years ago, so no surprise there either that the spokes have seized. It is radially spoked and the spokes are threaded into the hub and held there with Loc-Tite. If it weren't for that I'd cut the spokes and just replace them and rebuild the wheel, but these double threaded spokes are hard to come by. I didn't check if Easton still has them available since they stopped using them. These wheels are a real PITA to work on. For this reason I just want to free up all the nipples so I can true it normally. I have the rear wheel too that I had rebuilt with a new rim, but left all of the old spokes on it and it still is completely straight after 10+ years.

So what is the tried and true method for freeing spokes? WD-40? Some other penetrating oil? Some other method? Is a vice grip used to prevent the spoke from twisting a good idea?

dsbrantjr

Kano Kroil is IMO the best penetrant, followed by PB Blaster

Pop N Wood

Free the nipples!!!

I typically lube my nipples with a shot of WD40 like product every now and then to try and keep them from seizing like yours have.

Now that yours have seized the best penetrant you can use is a 50-50 mix of acetone and automatic transmission fluid. I would be careful using vice grips on spokes, probably only way I would do that is sandwiching them between two pieces of plywood first.

If one spoke went then I hate to say it buts others are going to join its funeral. Think I would do what is necessary to respoke that wheel.

zacster

It is a rainy day today so I'm not likely to ride. I'm going to pull out my old Campy Vento wheel and mount the tire to it for now. I'll put WD-40 on the Velomax wheel and let it soak and penetrate since that is what I have. I'm hoping to not need the vice grips. I may also have a few double threaded spokes but not sure if they are the right size. I actually had two pair of Velomax wheels and needed spokes for the other pair when I crashed hard. But the funny thing is that the front wheel took almost a head on collision, the frame cracked, but the wheel just needed a couple of spokes and is still being used on yet another bike by my son. That's the reason I bought the second pair, they seemed indestructible.

Bill Kapaun

IF these are conventional nipples, replace with new.
Use the vise grips to strip off the old nipple.
Wire brush the spoke threads.
Old nipples just don't give the consistent "feel" when tightening.
It'll save much frustration.

ThermionicScott 

You could slice the nipple lengthwise with a Dremel cutoff wheel...

zacster

The likelihood of the nipple being sliced rather than my finger is pretty low.

zacster

That's actually pretty good advice.

I just now applied the WD40 to all the nipples. I looked at my collection of parts and found ONE new double threaded spoke that appears to be the correct size. I'm debating too whether to just replace the rim with a new one, but the old one still seems OK. I'll see if it sits flat once I take it off. It hasn't ever been in any accidents, just this one spoke nipple breaking that started this thread.

My biggest fear is that I'll get off about 3/4s of the nipples and the others just won't budge, and getting it back together will be impossible. The other PITA with these spokes is that the hub side is held in place with Loctite, so I'd have to undo that as well if I wanted to replace spokes, not that I have replacement spokes. Even Easton stopped using them, going instead with standard straight pull spokes from Sapim.

This whole thing is getting to be annoying. Maybe it's time for a new wheel. I got 15 years of use out of it after all and that's pretty good. I have the Vento wheel in the meantime, but these were pretty heavy considering the low spoke count. I don't know what Campy was thinking with these wheels.

zacster

I just undid the wheel and EVERY spoke was stuck on. They must've used a compound to keep them tight like that, but that makes them very difficult to true and that's what I was just trying to do in the first place. I broke one spoke when I just couldn't get the nipple to turn. And I have one replacement. The WD-40 didn't do squat.

I'm debating whether to see if Easton still has new spokes for this or just use the old ones, this is why I undid it this way in the first place so I wouldn't have to replace the spokes. Their website used to have all the technical information for these but it seems to be gone. I may have downloaded it but it would be on my old computer and I haven't turned it on for a long while.

And in doing a search for the tech manual I came across the thread I started 3 years ago on replacement bearings. I thought it was a lot longer ago than that. While the wheels weren't new, they weren't actually used for about 5 years because of the loose bearing, and then I decided to do something about it, and it was easy. But I can't find the instructions on replacing spokes and I think I tossed the tube of loctite that I'll need as it had dried out.

dabac

Three things comes to mind:
1) heat. I’ve used everything from a 75W soldering iron to a cigarrette lighter to a MAPP torch to heat stuck nipples. Actually, for really stuck nipples, alloy can be easier to deal with. Due to their lower melting point, (on alloy rims) it’s possible to melt them straight off w/o doing any apparent damage to spoke or rim.
2) anyone with a spoke threader machine can make you double ended spokes just as easy as making a regular spoke.
3) if you don’t mind bug-ugly, make a double ended spoke out of two regular spokes. I’ve pushed them through a crimp-on cable connector, hooked the ends and crimped the sleeve. For my use, it held up fine.

zacster

Do bike shops still have spoke threader machines? I had thought about using my soldering iron to heat them up but since I got them off it wasn’t necessary. I ordered new nipples and the proper loctite for the hub end as I unwound a few from the hub that’ll need to be reglued. I’ll properly prep the spokes too so I can easily do this.

the season is winding down and for the trainer I’ll use my vento wheel.

zacster

I took nail polish remover to all of the spoke threads plus the threads on the hub end for the 4 spokes that came undone. I made sure that the hub threads were clean and I could easily put a spoke all the way in, plus went around with a clean nipple and made sure all the rim threads were equally clean. Acetone is the only thing that will dissolve Loctite 262 apparently, so now my work area smells like a nail salon. Once the acetone is dry I'll use the loctite. This 262 variety is not supposed to ever come loose. It requires 500℉ to soften it enough to loosen a bolt and it surprises me that I could even break the seal on the few that I did. The spokes should become one with the hub, which is why I have no desire to replace them all.

One thing that I did discover though is my spare spoke is actually short. The original spokes were 292 but my spare is 288. I'll fudge it at both ends. All of the originals stuck out of the nipple a bit anyway. If it breaks I'll figure something out.

epnnf

10yo? new wheel

zacster

Maybe more even. But it wasn't used for most of those 10 years and it is a nice light wheel. When I removed the spokes the rim still lays flat. The bearings are relatively new and very smooth. There's really no reason not to use it once I rebuild it. I've got stuff that is a lot older and is still used.