illusiumd

So just had the LBS build me a bike based on a SOMA ES frame with these wheels (as suggested by the LBS):

Dimension Road Rear Wheel 700c 36h Shimano Tiagra / Mavic Open Sport Silver
Dimension Road Front Wheel 700c Shimano Tiagra / Mavic Open Sport Silver

After a couple weeks and around 75 non-strenuous but occasional pothole commuter miles the back wheel is already way out of true. Should I upgrade or have them true it up and see?

If I were to upgrade - what is THE TOUGHEST fairly affordable road wheelset I can get? I'm around 240lbs. THANKS!

contango 

If they built you the wheel, presumably knowing your size and hopefully talking to you about what you're going to be doing on it, I'd say that if it's bent already it's not fit for purpose. I'd take it back and have them retrue it, and if it keeps going out of true so fast I'd expect a refund.

I built my own rear wheel after I broke the stock wheel following a 35mph pothole incident with a loaded pannier. I used a Hope Pro 3 hub, DT Swiss RR465 rim and DT Swiss competition spokes. I'm marginally heavier than you and so far I guess I've put about 2500 miles on the wheel. I checked and retrued/retensioned the wheel after the first 200 miles or so, since then it's been running true without any problem at all.

achoo

Your hubs are fine. If you want to upgrade to a bomb-proof narrow rim? Just rebuild your rear wheel with a DT Swiss RR585.

So the rear won't match the front. BFD.

If you bend an RR585 you need to change your riding style.

sstorkel

Wheel quality is determined by the skill of the builder more so than the quality of the components used. Sounds like whoever built your wheels may not have taken the time to properly tension or stress relieve them. I'd take the current wheels back to the shop and give them one opportunity to make things right. Tell them you want the wheels trued and you want the tension of every spoke checked with a tension meter. If a rim is bent, rather than just out of true, have them replace the rim (at their cost).

As a Clydesdale, you should realize that wheels are not a maintenance-free item... especially if you continue to plow them into potholes at speed. Learn to "ride light" (ex: by bunny hopping over pot holes, or at least standing on the pedals) and consider learning how to maintain your own wheels.

Wilfred Laurier

when the rim is bent
as opposed to out of true
its likely your fault

illusiumd

Dizam, great advice y'all. Thanks so much!

That's exactly what I'll do.

illusiumd

Took it to the LBS and they put a new wheel on it (is it a new wheel? couldn't you guys have at least made sure it was clean and had a cap on the valve?). Said the old wheel was a "warranty" issue. Acted annoyed when I questioned whether anyone checked the spokes... sigh...

JohnJ80

My experience is that most LBS's don't build enough wheels to be really expert at it. I love my guys at my LBS, and they are fantastic, but it's a repetition thing and if they don't do it a lot, it's hard to get really, really good at it. At least, I'd say, it's sort of luck of the draw on how much experience the LBS mechanic will have.

I built a bike a few years ago. I weigh not far from what you do, and I had continual problems with spoke breakage. Probably a bad set of spokes, maybe the rim - who knows? Either way, it was hard to figure it out and we just couldn't get it to work right - just kept breaking spokes. I gave the wheels to others in my family (lighter) and zero problems from that point on. I know a big part of it is that I'm a big guy and that's going to be tough on the wheel.

What I did then was had a pair of wheels build from HED Belgium C2 rims, regular butted spokes (DT Swiss - nothing fancy) and DT Swiss 350 hubs. They are bomb proof. I had them built by Excel Sports in Boulder CO (Excel Sports - Online Bicycle Retailer) who build a huge amount of wheels. Zero problems and several thousand miles on them. But they have several guys there that do nothing except build wheels. I think they've built something like 30,000 sets or something like that.

J.

TrojanHorse

I used to ride around on Easton EA90 wheels with 28 spokes in the rear when I was 240+ and never had a single problem with them for thousands of miles. Now I have another set of wheels - 32 spoke powertap wheel and again, never had a problem in thousands of miles. I'm lighter now but still 220 or so. Both wheels were hand built, the PT at Excel Sports.

Regardless, 240 isn't great for a bike wheel but I'm clearly not the first to tell you... that isn't the issue.

jsigone

well if it falls under warranty, it should be replaced rather quick and for free

thrllskr

Factory assembled wheels are not strong. You need to have a wheel built or learn how to do it yourself. I have found most wheels that are assembled are more than 20% or more out of targeted spoke tension tolerance. You will be busting wheels until you have someone build one.

Slowhead

I ride tiagra/open sport 32 spoke, on an Soma ES also. The wheels stayed true for about 3 years and now.
There have been different scenarios mentioned. It could be a combinations of things that resulted your wheel problem.

bigfred 

It's great that they provided a quick warranty replacement. It's too bad that it sounds as though they aren't interested in stress relieving and tension balancing that wheel.

The single most important contributor to getting reasonable service life from clyde wheels is the quality of the build, how thoroughly the spokes are stress relieved and that they are uniformly tensioned to a reasonably high load for the components in question.

Keep a close eye on your new wheel. As soon as it starts to exhibit any variation in spoke tension or even the slightest bit of out of true get it back to the shop ASAP for tension balancing and stress relieving in addition to truing.

illusiumd

Update here and need advice. So here's what was quoted to me on a new build at the beginning of all this stupidness:

Dimension Road Rear Wheel 700c 36h Shimano Tiagra / Mavic Open Sport Silver 1 $128.00 T
Dimension Road Front Wheel 700c Shimano Tiagra / Mavic Open Sport Silver 1 $116.00 T

So it turns out I actually wound up with two 32h wheels - one of which -rear- pancakes/goes out of true under my weight. This was a custom build where I said I wanted strong wheels from the get go.

LBS says they can either take the rear back and build up what they promised at no cost or order me a DT Swiss TK540 36h 700c Black rim for 120.

Which should I do? I'm 240lbs with a 15-20lbs pack. They haven't addressed what they're going to do about the front wheel.

bikemig 

I'd go with 36 hole rim in the rear and I'd opt for a little wider (and heavier) rim than the open sport; the mavic A319 would be a good choice.

jeichelberg87

I do not know where you live or anything about the roads, but I have had my Raleigh Revenio for a little over a month...6'0" and down to 240 from 267...I have roughly 500 miles on the bike already...Vittoria Zaffiro tires 700x23 and Weinmann TR-18 rims...stock...no flats and the wheels are as true as when I first rode the out of the Lbs...change the way you ride...I live in NW IN...roads suffer from a lot of potholes and regular detriotion due to freezing winters and hot summers...

bigfred 

Unless I'm mistaken, Dimension is a distributor house brand. I suspect that any such wheels would be machine built and at best hand trued and tensioned to within +/-20% (which is the industry standard). For trouble free clyde service I try to maintain tension balance of +/-5% for my personal wheels.

If your LBS has a Park TM-1 tension meter and is willing to invest the hour or two it takes in combination with Parks TCC spoke tension spreadsheet, they should be able to make the existing rear wheel servicable. The limiting factor may be the Mavic Open Sport rim's ability to support tension. I believe that Mavic indicates 110kgf as the max for that rim. On a normal Shimano hub that drive side tension results in only 50-55kgf on the non-drive side. Which is frequetly insufficient to maintain non-drive side tension during rim flex and subsequently non-drive side spoke nipples have a tendancy of backing off.

A lot of us clyde home wheel builders are aiming for around 130kgf of tension on the drive side. This increases non-drive side tension to around 70 kgf. Which seems to equate to sufficient elongation of the NDS spokes to keep the nipples from backing off without the use of thread locking components.

Another trick that can help with NDS tension is to accept a slight out of dish condition (just a mm or two) to the left side. This helps minimize the side to side tension differential and increase NDS tension without increasing DS tension.

Something else for you or them to think about, is that if given the affordability of the wheels initially, there is a good chance they are laced with straight gauge spokes. If this is the case, using some double butted spokes on the non-drive side of the rear will create greater elongation at the same tension and help ensure that tension remains on the nipples during moments of lateral deflection.

At your weight there's little reason why those rims and 32 spokes shouldn't be up to the task of supporting you.

Just my thoughts.

illusiumd

Thanks for the advice, LBS has revised its recommendations ... they now want put Velocity Chukker 700 36h rims for both front and rear on this bike. Wow bigFred, that's great info - I'm a total newb and will have to re-read what you wrote

They said that DT Swiss rim would be too wide for a Soma ES frame... but looking it up, it looks like the TK540 comes in at 23mm wide and the Chukker comes in at 24mm?

Fangowolf

If they true it up and tension it properly, Chucker is more than enough wheel. I had a back wheel 36h chucker for 1400 miles before I switched bikes and not a peep out of it. I was about to build a truing stand out of wood and some metal bits, when I found a $45 truing stand online. On my next bikes, I trued up the wheels and about 200 miles in I re trued them. My LHT is still using factory wheels and is about to hit 2500 miles. Truing them up is not very difficult and just takes some time and patience.

bigfred 

Find a new LBS.

illusiumd

So here's what they want to do. I dropped 244 on two 36h Dimension Wheel 700c 36h Shimano Tiagra Mavics. I ended up with two 32h, one of which got bent to **** under my fat butt.

For the front they want to " order a new 36h hub for the front and trade your current wheel in at full value."

For the rear they want me to spend 100-120 to upgrade to Velocity Chukker rim.

Is this fair?

//Sidenote rant

I should have known as soon as I saw the bike that this wasn't the LBS for me. They quoted me a black stem/bar/tape on this brownish frame. When I picked the bike up the headset and stem were both chrome and the bar and tape were black. Am I being a doofus for thinking that's BS? I asked them why the stem was chrome and they said "to match the headset." But you dudes quoted me a black stem. Whatever. They swapped out the stem for a black one, but left the headset chrome and I just didn't have the energy to say anything.

I wish I could just return this whole thing and start over with a different LBS. They kept saying, "Try it out" , "See how it feels" ... "We can mke adjustments" -- but now it's been since mid-June and it's too late to return the thing. Big Sigh.

TJClay

I'm not a believer in the need for 32 pr 36 spoke wheels for clydes. My weight has gone from about 240 to 225. My first wheelset were Fulcrum racing 7s, 20/24 spokes. I put at least 7500 miles on them with never a problem, no loose or broken spokes and stayed true.

Then I found a great deal on a set of Fulcrum racing 1s, I think 16/20 spokes. Very light and responsive wheelset. At about 2000 miles I decided to check the tension and found a few loose spokes and while tightening them like a dummy I twisted some of the spokes. That's all it took and a week or so later I broke one. Aluminum spokes are not cheap! Replaced one then promptly broke another. Replaced it and sold them.

So them I broke down and popped for a set of Shimano C24 9000s, also 16/20 spoke count. They are an amazing wheelset 7000 miles, straight, no loose spokes and spin awesome.

I've come to the conclusion that there's a lot more to broken spokes and out of true wheels then a riders weight. I ride primarily in Orange County, Ca where the roads are about as pristine as they come. I don't drop off curbs, bunny hop and rarely hit a pot hole. I'm not saying theres anything wrong with a custom built 32/36 wheelset, I just don't believe it's the answer for everyone.

JohnJ80

Take the swap for the factory built DT Swiss rims. It's a step up and it's clear this LBS is not any good at building wheels. If they mess around with building it again, why would you expect them to get that right? Every education has a tuition and at least you'll be done with them and have some really nice wheel that will last and have a warranty that means something. You'll have no problems with those wheels. I'm a big fan of DT Swiss hubs and spec them on my wheel builds.



J.

bigfred 

I believe the DT Swiss option was $120 for simply the TK540 rim, built onto the existing hub. Not an entire DT Swiss built wheel, nor hub.

bigfred 

Unless you're young, dumb, and full *um, and riding in an aggressive or reckless manner, you shouldn't need a chukker rear rim in order to get reasonable service life out of your wheel.

How are you using the bike? Road riding? Innercity curb hoping? B and C road adventure riding? Leaving it parked outside an office building or classroom?

240lbs isn't that heavy around this forum.

Is the current rim actually "bent" or simply "untrue"?