twalls

Here in Western WA. with temps in the high 20's, and lots of moisture in the air, we've got frost in a lot of places, as well as icy patches on the roads. This is mixed with clear dry patches in the sunny spots. I have Marathons on my Troll, which I know will be dicey in spots. Can I run a studded tire that would also be OK on dry pavement? If so, which ones? Thanks.

Tourist in MSN

I use Schwalbe Marathon Winters. I have not tried the plain Winters that have half as many studs, but they might be just as good. If I recall (I might have this wrong?) the extra studs on the Marathon Winters are further to the side which rarely contacts the ice, so the plain Winters might be just as good for ice patches.

The tires are very slow, huge rolling resistance. But I use them to get out on the bike for exercise, so a slow tire only results in me getting more exercise - which is my goal. Thus, I do not complain too much about that.

Yes they work on pavement, but are quite noisy.

At higher pressure, the studs do not contact the surface as much as at lower pressure. So, when I use them because of an occasionally ice patch, I will run them at higher pressure. But if there is lots of ice, I drop the pressure so the studs get a better grip on the ice. Studded tires are the only tires where I actually modify the pressure for the road conditions. You can see in the photo that the studs are not in the center of the tire, but off to the side a bit, that is why air pressure can modify how well they grip.

If there is more than about a half inch of snow (roughly more than a centimeter) they do not work as well, the snow is enough to hold the tire up off the ice so that the studs do not grip the ice. But on snow free ice, they are great. Mine are 50X559 size.



I did not buy them from Peter White, but I will say that his page on studded tires is very educational. I learned a lot there.

https://www.peterwhitecycles.com/studdedtires.asp

LeeG

I used Nokian Hakkapeliita W106 commuting 12 miles a day when it was snow and ice riding often on sidewalks as riding in traffic was insane. About half the ride was wet roads with sidewalks icy. It would be nice if there was a 26" tire like the 700c Nokian A10. PeterWhite describes the W106 as having the least rolling resistance of the other studded 26" tires that have more aggressive treads. You take a big reduction in speed with the studs on wet/dry roads and you really don't want to be flying around corners into ice patches anyway.

It's not so much that they're OK on dry roads it's that the ability to stay upright and not crashing ballisticly everywhere breaking wrists and collarbones is worth it. Without them I simply could not ride up out of slushy traffic onto the sidewalk to get out the way of drivers who were out of control or there wasn't room. It is a cool revelation to be able to ride on surfaces you couldn't walk on. If you have a ten mile ride on a wet/dry road with a dozen unrideable ice patches get used to riding 25% slower with a steady buzzing sound. I haven't had any studs rip out but my riding/braking is very conservative in those conditions and with those tires.

imi

Maybe just need a studded tire on the front in those conditions

mantelclock

I am using Continental Nordic Spike studded tires for winter conditions in CT. They come with either 120 or 240 studs. I have the 120 stud tires, which do not have spikes in the center, making them suitable for dry roads as well. I have been very satisfied riding with these over icy patches.

continental bicycle Nordic Spike

bikemig 

I would recommend something a little different; try the continental winter contact tires. No they're not as good as studded tires for snow/ice but they are very good for the occasional icy patch.

I run bikes with different tires in IA. I commute on studded tires and I run studded tires on my mtb for kicking around on.

I also run the conti winter contact tires on a drop bar mtb conversion which is my workhorse bike throughout the cold winter months. Fine tire and it will work well for the conditions you describe.

martianone

In my mind, regular schwalbe marathons are sort of equivalent to an "all season" car tire - good for a lot of messy conditions - but not optimal. Used the W106 tire for a number of years - they gave one a confident feeling on icy surfaces and patches. Not long after I had them, rode up to an intersection that had a pretty clear coat of frozen snow melt washed across it. I had to stop, put my foot down and promptly fell from slipping on the ice. Reminder, when you stop on an icy patch with this type of tire, keep the brakes on when stopping and hang on to your bike. Beginning of last season, the W106 were worn out, my LBS had the Schwalbe Winter tire in stock- I used them last year and so far this season. They have a similar number of spikes more near tire center, both have worked well. Was out earlier today, the roads were hard pack ice to sloppy stuff and bare spots - tires were effective on all the surfaces. Take corners carefully (flat), rolling resistance is a lot greater - that is also coupled with snow slush resistance. Run the at around 40-45 psi, when new- their makers suggest riding them on dry pavement for a few km to set the spikes. $$ of Both W106 and Winter tires may surprise you, there are less expensive alternatives - my suggestion is to get tires with carbide studs, many of the less costly tires don't have carbide studs. One set of W106 tires lasted me about 10 years - they were a good value.

Tourist in MSN

One more quick note. I mentioned above that I drop the pressure when there is a lot of ice for better grip and raise air pressure when not much ice to make the tire roll better. Keep in mind that your front tire is a tire you really do not want to go sliding on, so it can be a good idea to run lower pressure in the front. In my front tire I often run about 75 or 80 percent of the pressure that I run in the rear.

As noted above by imi, a studded tire in front is an option. There were a lot of bike commuters where I used to work, some used studs front and rear, but some only used studded tires on the front.

79pmooney

I went for my first snow ride today on the Continental Topcontact Winter tires. (These may be the contact tires bikemig talks about.) Not studded but very, very grippy. I was riding in about an inch of new snow on cold ground so there wasn't much ice but the tires felt good on the ice I did see. (I did ride over a frozen huge puddle/lake that some walkers warned me about. I rode it as ice, very smoothly, no accelerations, brakes or turns but mostly so that I wouldn't break through! I could feel it depressing under the tires.) They are grippy enough that you will seek out snow to lower the rolling resistance. At a skinny 37c (much narrower than my Paselas at 35c) they are skinny enough to ride through snow you cannot ride over. Not cheap tires, I paid ~$75, but a very good addition to the stable. If they keep my hip off the pavement just once, they will have earned their place. (I've gone down enough that each hard hit is bursitis and sleeping with a piece of foam with a cutout under my hip for 18 months.)

Best of all, they make riding in iffy conditions fun.

Ben

LeeG

This makes sense

continental bicycle Top CONTACT Winter II Premium

bikemig 

Yeah, they're great all purpose winter tires. Not as good as studded tires for the serious stuff but fine tires and of course loads better than studded tires on pavement.

dh024

I'll second the recommendation for a studded front tire and a studless winter tire in the back for these sorts of conditions.

My favourite combination on my cross bike is a Winter Marathon studded up front and a Conti Top Contact Winter studless tire on the rear. You stick well on the cornering (big confidence builder in the winter), and really good rolling resistance in the rear where it matters most (and decent traction). I have been running this setup for a few years and love it.

DropBarFan

Interesting, for 10 years I've been telling motorist friends to buy winter car tires. I mention the new tech with micro-cells that stick much better than std "all-season" tires but they ignore, thinking that their traction-control or AWD solves all problems. Car snow tires, now, reportedly work so well that one can drive Vettes & Porsches comfortably in light snow.

So it's nice to see that not only can bikers buy studded tires but there are winter-compound tires available that give good grip but work equally well on bare road. On local bike path it's amusing to see various bike tire tracks thru the snow. Narrow-tire roadies's tracks swerve wildly but even MTB riders w/knobby tires slip about when snow gets icier.

twalls

Thank you all for your thoughtful responses. Of course, after I asked the question the weather here began to moderate! So, the Continental Winter tire sounds like a good bet for the next couple-three months when the temps can slip in and out of freezing. Tim

Tourist in MSN

I do not know if it is imagination or not, but I think that where there is smooth ice or a quarter inch dusting of snow that my studded tires roll better. So, on the bike paths, I preferentially seek out the frozen puddles and dusting of snow. Thus, I am sure I leave behind some roadies that are scratching their heads trying to figure out why there are tracks in places that they avoid.

bikemig 

One thing is for sure, I'd never ignore what a Canadian has to say about winter riding, . When I first started thinking about winter riding, I was impressed how many people were out there riding in much worse conditions than I deal with in Iowa,

Leebo

Ugg, seems like a recipe for disaster. 2 studded or nothing at all. I'm sure my MA riding is different. YRMV.

djb

I've never ridden through the winter, but I have lost the front on ice a few times and would only consider using a studded tire if I were to ride in winter. I'm fairly comfortable with slides, front, rear, both-- but losing the front on ice happens so fast that you are on the ground before you can react.

thats neat that there are softer compound winter bike tires now, makes sense, this is what makes a good car snow tire, a much softer compound that works well in cold temps and on ice.

And makes it essential to put your winters on as late as possible in fall winter, and off the car as early as possible in spring--drive around with them in warm weather, and you will take a whole seasons worth of winter driving off them in very short order in 20c 70f temps, especially if you drive at highway speeds and or drive brake hard.

Hypno Toad

I've been a winter rider in Minneapolis for many years and have tried a number of tire options. The studded front and Top Contact Winter rear is the best and never once put me on the ground. The only reason you'd really need studs on the rear is for fast accelerations or steep icy climbs; the front will is doing the steering and most of the braking.

dh024

I guess you haven't tried it, then. Experience is always a better guide than "theory" or suspicion, right?

Leebo

I own 4 sets of studded tires. The ice affect the front and rear wheels equally. For me, it makes no sense to run one. My MA riding sees lots of freeze thaw for roads and trails as well. I value not crashing and burning, as opposed to saving some rolling resistance. All the drive power is on the rear tire, as well as most of the weight. The back wheel turns and is needed for traction as well. Never crashed with just 1 studded tire up front? Maybe MN has less ice? YRMV.

Hypno Toad

You're killing me with that one!

I'm not different from you, hitting the ground sucks; I have no time for it (and I have done it with non-winter tires on ice). The ice in Minneapolis starts in early November and can last until end of April. I bike daily, year-round, roughly 850 miles per winter. I've gone through many sets of winter tires, including non-winter MTB tires, high-stud count, low-stud count, and Top Contact Winter. I used Top Contact Winter front and rear one season and was 95% happy; putting a low-stud count on the front makes me 100% happy.

To each his own, I have no issue with you running studs front and rear - I know many Minneapolis riders with 2 studded tires. I would advise the OP that if they are touring, efficiency will have increased importance and that some riders have great experience with a studded front tire and non-studded rear.

dh024

There is certainly nothing wrong with running studded tires on both wheels -- when the roads are REALLY icy up here, I have a 29er with studs front and back that I pull out for commuting. Plus I have a 29+ 'fat' bike for when it gets really snowy.

But the OP was asking about conditions when occasional ice and frost occur. We get some of that up here, especially in the shoulder seasons, and running studs front and back is overkill, IMO. That's when either two non-studded winter tires, or one studded up front (for extra confidence) really work well.

I am surprised you keep arguing with people that have tried different tire combinations and have found what works best for them, when it appears you have never even tried studless winter tires to know how they perform. Or did I miss where you mentioned this?

Leebo

I have not met ice that was only a little slippery. I prefer to stay upright. Your results may vary. If that combo works well for you great. IMHO, I think 1 studded tire is a bad idea. I have no desire to try for less traction and see. Not arguing, just relating my experience from my riding.

dh024

I haven't met ice that was only a "little slippery" either. But to be fair, that wasn't what I said.

What I do encounter, and was the topic introduced by the OP, is when you have mostly clear pavement, but here and there there may be small patches of ice and frost. That's where two studded tires is overkill, IMO, based on personal experience trying different combinations of tires and finding what works best.