patentcad

My pal Don and I are both pushing 50 (well, OK, I AM 50) and we raced together frequently over the years. We're both big fans of Zipp 404/tubular tire wheels, we ride/race on them. We were discussing this today during our ride in the lovely 28ºF/25mph NW wind weather (we are not wussies, we rode). We came to these mutual conclusions:

• People that actually claim clinchers are faster than tubulars seem to be informed by Internet not experience.

• Don said that @ Somerville last year the pro wheel pit was mostly tubulars and Zipps (or Zipp type) wheels.

• We both strongly feel the Zipp/tubular combo bolted on to any of our bikes feels noticeably faster in competitive riding situations, and we have enough experience to emphatically confirm that.

• Euro pros who generally ride whatever they feel is best because they're getting it free from sponsors or have the budgets to support it mostly ride tubulars.

• I've had people on this board tell me 160lbs is too much psi for road riding/racing. Uh huh. Been doing it now for over a year on the open road, Don says he races with guys who pump Contis up to 180lbs for crits. No problems.

• When I say 'Zipp', I use that term generically, insert your favorite brand of carbon deep dish light tubular wheel here ________.

We strongly feel the weight savings/higher pressure/better cornering/less puncture prone nature of tubulars makes them superior to clinchers. More of a pain? Of course? Worth it? Yes.

By the way, Don sends his flat tubies to a guy in Florida for repair. $10 to fix a flat sew up plus a couple of bucks for postage.

Discuss. Flame wars welcome. This place is getting boring.

ElJamoquio

Campy.


Oh wait, wrong thread.

patentcad

It's the effort that counts ElJ.

ElJamoquio

I voted with my wallet for tubular.

As you indicated one of the limitations of this study that we've all seen is that it only tests the tubulars up to 120 psi or something along those lines.

Additionally I believe the Zipp tubulars are slightly more aero than their clincher version.

I bought some Pit Stop in case I get a flat, but haven't had a chance to use it yet.

patentcad

I only drag out the Zipp 404s on perfect days. The fact that it requires a brake pad swap makes it a bit more involved. In the summer I often just leave the Zipps/carbon pads on the Cdale. But I'm riding those Zipps considerably less in the winter so the clinchers are back on the Six13 for this week.

patentcad

Both of us feel that what makes the Zipp tubies fast is the considerably lighter weight vs. clinchers (something like 300+ grams/wheelset) and the 160+psi we ride them at. I'll only pump clinchers up to 120psi. At speeds over 25mph and going up hill, the tubular Zipps really do seem to require less watts. We both strongly believe that. All in our minds? Perhaps. But we don't think so, and the other people I know who ride these in the real world all seem to agree.

biker128pedal

Three things that scare me.

3. Getting a flat.
1. No experience with tubular.
2. Cost. (But see below)


Maybe some day. Though the recent Performance or Nashbar sale on the Mavic tubular rims made think hard about them.

TheKillerPenguin

Just an FYI Pcaddy, you can use your Shimano pads on zipp wheels.

As for my opinion, I really dig the feel of tubulars, but ride clinchers because they're easier and cheaper to deal with in case of flats. I'd buy a pair of tubular rims for racing, but I don't have that type of guap stash to throw down.

GatorFL

Who's the guy in Florida who fixes them? I've thrown away a couple tubular tires and it would be nice to stop doing that....

ElJamoquio

Guap Stash?

TheKillerPenguin

^ oh my. I'm mad fresh money son. Ima get in on that.

Gaup Stash - benjamins. nest egg. cash money.

ElJamoquio

I gathered. So is it Guap or Gaup? And what is 'bling', anyway? Non-hip-minds want to know.

Homebrew01

I use clinchers for training, but tubulars for racing. You don't have to spend big bucks though. I have old 1980's front tubulars that are pretty light. I just bought a rear wheel off Ebay and am going to put on a lighter rim. I'll end up with a tubular pair weighing around 1500 grams (guessing), with a cost of about $250. They will have zero bling (I don't care). But they will ride better than $600 clinchers

PCad, 180 psi in a crit !!! I think you're better off with lower psi for cornering grip. Some say that too high a psi actually slows you down because it causes the bike to bounce & bump too much.

TheKillerPenguin

Guap. like Guac(amole).

Bling = ice

asgelle

What about this study? https://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/r...e-tubular.html

iab

https://www.tirealert.com/

iab

3. You swap tires on the road as you swap clincher tubes on the road. Argueably, changing a tubular is faster. And before some jackass says you have to ride slow on a spare, more accurate is you should not race on a spare. Anything else is fine.

1. If you don't tinker with your bike, don't get tubulars unless you have money to pay someone to do it for you. If you have the hand-eye coordination of a monkey, you can mount tubulars. There is more time needed for the initial set-up, but if you have more than one set of rims or an extra bike, there is no issue.

2. For wheels, absolutely not. I can build a sub 1300 gram tubular wheelset for $300 (not including my labor). For tires, yes. A single silk Dugast will run you up to $205. But you can also get cheap 3 for $50 tubulars too.

sfrider 

For me it's only about flats. I'm concerned about being halfway up a mountain somewhere without cell service and with a flat I can't fix. Or the second flat, if I brought a spare.

operator

Yawn. What's better for WHAT application? For training clinchers are superior to tubulars in everyway possible. What, you're going to bring 3 spare tires with you?

P.S This thread hasn't been done before /sarcasm

patentcad

Changing a tubie flat is easy. You don't glue it on the road, you just put it on the rim, pump it up and take it easy on the corners. You add glue later at home. The biggest pain? The valve extenders or presta valve core replacements. Tubular race wheels are pricey, but if you ride competitively I think they're the best bang for the buck next to a power meter. And power meters help you get faster but they don't give you an instant boost as soon as they're bolted to your existing rig.

KP: I have been told to only use carbon pads on carbon rims quite emphatically by multiple sources. The rubber Dura Ace pads collect small aluminum frags from the alu rims on clinchers, and those can scratch your carbon rims if you don't change them. I haven't tried it, but I don't want to find out that it was a bad idea on a set of wheels that just went up to $2100 MSRP (new 2008 Zipp MSRP).

That $1200 set of 2006 Zipp 404s with tires I scored on eBay in March look like a better deal every day.

I'll try to get you guys that FL flat guy's contact info shortly. KP, you can score Zipps after you become a bond trader at Goldman Sachs. You won't have time to train, but you'll have the Schwag.

Homebrew01

I used to train on tubulars once in a while. I would fold up 2 used tires (side by side) & use an old toe strap to attach them to the seat rails. Used tubulars make good spares because they should have some old glue that will help hold them on until you get home.

within

Here is a short thread regarding TireAlert. Ron usually emails or calls back the same day if you have any questions! Can't do seamless tires...

SpongeDad

Well, I sure as hell hope tubies are better - just got a pair of used 404 tubies off ebay.

Gotta get some carbon pads and then it's off to Hains point to test them out.

WxGuesser

I got my first set of tubies today (FSA rd488)... test rode them with no glue and they were smooth as butter... felt really nice.. almost like i had a tailwind.. i've got no experience with tubular.. but i did get the rundown on them... i was surprised that fsa says these wheels can be used for cyclocross.. NEVER!!
anyway.. i'm planning on riding them a lot.. wish me luck!

Homebrew01