Help outfitting for my first tour / bike pack
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Help outfitting for my first tour / bike pack
Good Evening,
I'm Andriy, a total beginner to the experience of a bike packer and touring enthusiast. Please take it easy on me!
I have been lurking on your forum for some time, subscribed to GCN Youtube channel and some other informative video channels gathering as much information as I could about bike packing before becoming a member on this great forum. I am delighted to be here and learn more "Safely," before going on my first tour / bike pack.
My goals are very simple. Enjoy bike packing for 1-3 nights, maybe even a long weekend, but working up to that point where I will start out with a local group up in Syracuse NY and do an overnighter during our summer months. It can be rainy, hot, muggy etc up here on occasions. I am also an amateur radio operator and plan on taking some radio equipment with me (very light weight stuff).
In December 2018 I purchased a Salsa Marrakesh 2018 in that hot orange color. I really like that bike alot, but we share a love / hate relationship. My salsa is very temperamental on rear derailleur shifts. Sometimes it stays in gear and sometimes not. Thank god for friction shifters! I have been riding for several years, off and on, but recently I have been going much more often in order to get in better shape.
I am also owner of a Cannondale Quick CX 2 that will be getting some modifications done in the future as well.
I would like to know how I should start outfitting my Marrakesh for bike touring / packing, evaluate my thoughts and pros / cons. There is so much information out here and through google that its difficult to absorb and know what is right vs wrong. looking for more scoped answers.
Here is what I have currently setup:
Here are my thoughts on a overnight bike bag setup as well as additional hardware:
I welcome some comments and suggestions on which way to go. As far as budget lets start out around ~300.00 - ~500.00.
Thank you and a pleasure to be welcomed to this forum.
I'm Andriy, a total beginner to the experience of a bike packer and touring enthusiast. Please take it easy on me!
I have been lurking on your forum for some time, subscribed to GCN Youtube channel and some other informative video channels gathering as much information as I could about bike packing before becoming a member on this great forum. I am delighted to be here and learn more "Safely," before going on my first tour / bike pack.
My goals are very simple. Enjoy bike packing for 1-3 nights, maybe even a long weekend, but working up to that point where I will start out with a local group up in Syracuse NY and do an overnighter during our summer months. It can be rainy, hot, muggy etc up here on occasions. I am also an amateur radio operator and plan on taking some radio equipment with me (very light weight stuff).
In December 2018 I purchased a Salsa Marrakesh 2018 in that hot orange color. I really like that bike alot, but we share a love / hate relationship. My salsa is very temperamental on rear derailleur shifts. Sometimes it stays in gear and sometimes not. Thank god for friction shifters! I have been riding for several years, off and on, but recently I have been going much more often in order to get in better shape.
I am also owner of a Cannondale Quick CX 2 that will be getting some modifications done in the future as well.
I would like to know how I should start outfitting my Marrakesh for bike touring / packing, evaluate my thoughts and pros / cons. There is so much information out here and through google that its difficult to absorb and know what is right vs wrong. looking for more scoped answers.
Here is what I have currently setup:
- Topeak MTX Rear Carrier bag with built in side panniers. I jury-rigged a non-disk rear carrier to fit my Marrakesh very well. I still have the stock Salsa rear carrier.
- All stock components and hardware on bike drivetrain.
- Leyzine MEGA C bike computer with WAHOO Sensors and MYZone heart monitor strap.
Here are my thoughts on a overnight bike bag setup as well as additional hardware:
- Obtain some fenders for front and back wheels
- Font rack / pannier bag holders: I currently have a virtue small front fork rack but have difficulty getting it on.
- Full center frame bag.
I welcome some comments and suggestions on which way to go. As far as budget lets start out around ~300.00 - ~500.00.
Thank you and a pleasure to be welcomed to this forum.
#2
Full Member
Welcome aboard.
I'm not a bikepacker so can't really help you there, sorry.
The first thing I'd do is get to the root of the shifting problem. We have to be able to trust our bikes. A love/hate relationship will eventually become a hate/hate relationship if left to fester.
As to what setup/hardware?
Surely it makes sense to look at what you want to bring and then figure out the best ways to carry it?
I'm not a bikepacker so can't really help you there, sorry.
The first thing I'd do is get to the root of the shifting problem. We have to be able to trust our bikes. A love/hate relationship will eventually become a hate/hate relationship if left to fester.
As to what setup/hardware?
Surely it makes sense to look at what you want to bring and then figure out the best ways to carry it?
#3
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My goals are very simple. Enjoy bike packing for 1-3 nights, maybe even a long weekend, but working up to that point where I will start out with a local group up in Syracuse NY and do an overnighter during our summer months. It can be rainy, hot, muggy etc up here on occasions. I am also an amateur radio operator and plan on taking some radio equipment with me (very light weight stuff).
In December 2018 I purchased a Salsa Marrakesh 2018 in that hot orange color. I really like that bike alot, but we share a love / hate relationship. My salsa is very temperamental on rear derailleur shifts. Sometimes it stays in gear and sometimes not. Thank god for friction shifters! I have been riding for several years, off and on, but recently I have been going much more often in order to get in better shape.
Here is what I have currently setup:
- Topeak MTX Rear Carrier bag with built in side panniers. I jury-rigged a non-disk rear carrier to fit my Marrakesh very well. I still have the stock Salsa rear carrier.
Here are my thoughts on a overnight bike bag setup as well as additional hardware:
- Obtain some fenders for front and back wheels
- Font rack / pannier bag holders: I currently have a virtue small front fork rack but have difficulty getting it on.
- Full center frame bag.
2015-04-23 06.25.21 by Stuart Black, on Flickr
rather than this
DSCN1255 by Stuart Black, on Flickr
You probably don’t need quite as much carrying capacity as the Cannondale but something like that would serve you better for on-road touring. The mountain bike is set up for off-road touring where a low riding bag like the Cannondale would be a liability. But the load on the Moots is rather high and make the bike much more difficult to control.
The bags on the Cannondale are Ortlieb which are waterproof which is a plus but it does make them more expensive. For a short tour, you might even be able to get away with just the front bag. I even mount the front bags on lowriders on the front without the rear bags for short tours. The low riders I use are Tubus Tara which look like this
2015-01-11 12.20.06 by Stuart Black, on Flickr
I would also suggest not using a triangle bag unless you absolutely have to (good for off-road). The benefits (a bit of extra space) is outweighed by the liabilities. The larger area serves as a sail and takes up the space for water bottles. It’s also a bit wider so it brushes your legs regularly. A bit annoying. It’s also an expense that you could spend on good panniers and a handlebar bag.
__________________
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
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Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
#4
Miles to Go
How much do you intend to trek offroad? If offroad, a lot of technical singletrack, or mainly fire roads?
The rougher the terrain, the more you want to lean toward a bikepacking setup.
If mainly on roads/dirt roads, traditional panniers would be a good start.
The rougher the terrain, the more you want to lean toward a bikepacking setup.
If mainly on roads/dirt roads, traditional panniers would be a good start.
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Good Afternoon everyone,
Thank you for your replies.
A lot has changed since my initial post. My wife has decided that she would like to get involved and start touring. She and will need some conditioning, but eventually will get her there. Went to our local bike shop and picked her up a Salsa Journeyman.
So no single track or off road touring for us, mainly sticking to roads or groomed bike trails.
Thank you for your replies.
A lot has changed since my initial post. My wife has decided that she would like to get involved and start touring. She and will need some conditioning, but eventually will get her there. Went to our local bike shop and picked her up a Salsa Journeyman.
So no single track or off road touring for us, mainly sticking to roads or groomed bike trails.
#6
Senior Member
To keep things fun, and to gradually improve both your riding and fitness levels, I would just suggest doing regular rides that are not too long, and gradually increasing distances. Over the years, I have introduced my wife to biking more and more, and also done things with our kids, so the most important thing is not to overdo it, and keep distances realistic for her abilities, so that it remains a fun activity.
Really make sure that you always have enough water and snacks-again so that its a fun activity.
the more both of you ride, the more accustomed you both will be used to all the aches and pains of riding, especially for a newer rider. Padded bike shorts make a real difference for comfort, and making sure the bike is set up properly for her , is super important.
and yes, your bike just needs a quick, small rd cable adjustment. The store you bought it at can do it in about 1 minute. If interested, learn how to do it yourself and at least look at some youtube videos, such as the Park Tools series, on rear derailleur cable adjustment, as the Park tool ones are very well made and will help understand the concept. There is no reason that you need to use friction, index shifting is supremely reliable and consistent , and the adjustment to make it work is very straightforward.
enjoy riding together, thats the main thing.
Just make it a fun experience and hopefully she gets hooked.
ps, given the lack of urgency, keep an eye out on craigslist, kijiji etc, for used panniers . This can be a good way to try out touring inexpensively, around here there are always people selling used panniers--just be aware of what is available new and at what price--be an informed craigslist shopper--lots of stuff is overpriced for unsuspecting buyers.
visit large bike stores, or places like REI, to get an idea of what racks and panniers cost, and what is available, and various qualities.
pps, I cannot emphasis the importance of regular riding to become more comfortable with being on a bike, as well as improving fitness gradually. Commuting is an excellent way to do this, but obviously do not leave these bikes locked outside, they are nice bikes and will be an attraction to thieves.
Really make sure that you always have enough water and snacks-again so that its a fun activity.
the more both of you ride, the more accustomed you both will be used to all the aches and pains of riding, especially for a newer rider. Padded bike shorts make a real difference for comfort, and making sure the bike is set up properly for her , is super important.
and yes, your bike just needs a quick, small rd cable adjustment. The store you bought it at can do it in about 1 minute. If interested, learn how to do it yourself and at least look at some youtube videos, such as the Park Tools series, on rear derailleur cable adjustment, as the Park tool ones are very well made and will help understand the concept. There is no reason that you need to use friction, index shifting is supremely reliable and consistent , and the adjustment to make it work is very straightforward.
enjoy riding together, thats the main thing.
Just make it a fun experience and hopefully she gets hooked.
ps, given the lack of urgency, keep an eye out on craigslist, kijiji etc, for used panniers . This can be a good way to try out touring inexpensively, around here there are always people selling used panniers--just be aware of what is available new and at what price--be an informed craigslist shopper--lots of stuff is overpriced for unsuspecting buyers.
visit large bike stores, or places like REI, to get an idea of what racks and panniers cost, and what is available, and various qualities.
pps, I cannot emphasis the importance of regular riding to become more comfortable with being on a bike, as well as improving fitness gradually. Commuting is an excellent way to do this, but obviously do not leave these bikes locked outside, they are nice bikes and will be an attraction to thieves.
Last edited by djb; 07-19-19 at 06:50 AM.
#7
Banned.
I don't know if I quoted this correctly but this question was directed @cyccommute For as much riding as you do, and the different setups you are familiar with, have you ever tried something like a Surly 8 pack, 24 pack, or some type of pizza rack on there for bags like how you have your bikepacking setup in the front?
I am wondering what your thoughts in general would be on such a thing.
Thanks
I am wondering what your thoughts in general would be on such a thing.
Thanks
Last edited by Bike Jedi; 07-23-19 at 09:04 PM.
#8
Senior Member
For camping, if you’re just getting into it and on a budget, I recommend the Klymit sleep pad, a cheap canister stove from Amazon(Something that weighs very little and has lots of good review feedback for under $20), a cheap cook set with the same qualifications, a cheap backpacking sleeping bag(that does not say it’s waterproof, it’ll be clammy to sleep in), and I’ve recently seen a tent called the Yosemite by a company called Hyke and Byke(hopefully their inability to spell isn’t an indication of their quality...) that is very light weight for the price and has pretty good reviews.
Sorry to recommend a bunch of Amazon crap, but if you’re starting out on a budget, I can’t think of a way to get better value for your money. Add on a set of Arkel Dry Light panniers for $100. That gear should function just fine(never used the tent personally, though), and all be under ~10lbs for less than $300. I wish I had started with that weight and price-point. The two person version of the tent will fit you and your wife if you don’t mind a small sleeping space. You could share a stove and potentially cook-set. Just add on another $180 for panniers and a sleeping bag/pad for her and she’s in the game too, both of you camp touring under $500. You’d probably be carrying ~7-8lbs each if you split the tent weight. I bet you could easily add the clothes and food needed for a couple nights and stay under 20lbs each.
Then spend another $60+ each on locks and $20 on bolt-on skewers if you plan on riding near other humans, because some scumbag will steal your bike if you give them the chance.
Sorry to recommend a bunch of Amazon crap, but if you’re starting out on a budget, I can’t think of a way to get better value for your money. Add on a set of Arkel Dry Light panniers for $100. That gear should function just fine(never used the tent personally, though), and all be under ~10lbs for less than $300. I wish I had started with that weight and price-point. The two person version of the tent will fit you and your wife if you don’t mind a small sleeping space. You could share a stove and potentially cook-set. Just add on another $180 for panniers and a sleeping bag/pad for her and she’s in the game too, both of you camp touring under $500. You’d probably be carrying ~7-8lbs each if you split the tent weight. I bet you could easily add the clothes and food needed for a couple nights and stay under 20lbs each.
Then spend another $60+ each on locks and $20 on bolt-on skewers if you plan on riding near other humans, because some scumbag will steal your bike if you give them the chance.
Last edited by 3speed; 07-22-19 at 09:03 PM.
#9
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Good Evening,
I'm Andriy, a total beginner to the experience of a bike packer and touring enthusiast. Please take it easy on me!
I have been lurking on your forum for some time, subscribed to GCN Youtube channel and some other informative video channels gathering as much information as I could about bike packing before becoming a member on this great forum. I am delighted to be here and learn more "Safely," before going on my first tour / bike pack.
My goals are very simple. Enjoy bike packing for 1-3 nights, maybe even a long weekend, but working up to that point where I will start out with a local group up in Syracuse NY and do an overnighter during our summer months. It can be rainy, hot, muggy etc up here on occasions. I am also an amateur radio operator and plan on taking some radio equipment with me (very light weight stuff).
In December 2018 I purchased a Salsa Marrakesh 2018 in that hot orange color. I really like that bike alot, but we share a love / hate relationship. My salsa is very temperamental on rear derailleur shifts. Sometimes it stays in gear and sometimes not. Thank god for friction shifters! I have been riding for several years, off and on, but recently I have been going much more often in order to get in better shape.
I am also owner of a Cannondale Quick CX 2 that will be getting some modifications done in the future as well.
I would like to know how I should start outfitting my Marrakesh for bike touring / packing, evaluate my thoughts and pros / cons. There is so much information out here and through google that its difficult to absorb and know what is right vs wrong. looking for more scoped answers.
Here is what I have currently setup:
Here are my thoughts on a overnight bike bag setup as well as additional hardware:
I welcome some comments and suggestions on which way to go. As far as budget lets start out around ~300.00 - ~500.00.
Thank you and a pleasure to be welcomed to this forum.
I'm Andriy, a total beginner to the experience of a bike packer and touring enthusiast. Please take it easy on me!
I have been lurking on your forum for some time, subscribed to GCN Youtube channel and some other informative video channels gathering as much information as I could about bike packing before becoming a member on this great forum. I am delighted to be here and learn more "Safely," before going on my first tour / bike pack.
My goals are very simple. Enjoy bike packing for 1-3 nights, maybe even a long weekend, but working up to that point where I will start out with a local group up in Syracuse NY and do an overnighter during our summer months. It can be rainy, hot, muggy etc up here on occasions. I am also an amateur radio operator and plan on taking some radio equipment with me (very light weight stuff).
In December 2018 I purchased a Salsa Marrakesh 2018 in that hot orange color. I really like that bike alot, but we share a love / hate relationship. My salsa is very temperamental on rear derailleur shifts. Sometimes it stays in gear and sometimes not. Thank god for friction shifters! I have been riding for several years, off and on, but recently I have been going much more often in order to get in better shape.
I am also owner of a Cannondale Quick CX 2 that will be getting some modifications done in the future as well.
I would like to know how I should start outfitting my Marrakesh for bike touring / packing, evaluate my thoughts and pros / cons. There is so much information out here and through google that its difficult to absorb and know what is right vs wrong. looking for more scoped answers.
Here is what I have currently setup:
- Topeak MTX Rear Carrier bag with built in side panniers. I jury-rigged a non-disk rear carrier to fit my Marrakesh very well. I still have the stock Salsa rear carrier.
- All stock components and hardware on bike drivetrain.
- Leyzine MEGA C bike computer with WAHOO Sensors and MYZone heart monitor strap.
Here are my thoughts on a overnight bike bag setup as well as additional hardware:
- Obtain some fenders for front and back wheels
- Font rack / pannier bag holders: I currently have a virtue small front fork rack but have difficulty getting it on.
- Full center frame bag.
I welcome some comments and suggestions on which way to go. As far as budget lets start out around ~300.00 - ~500.00.
Thank you and a pleasure to be welcomed to this forum.
Boy, did you come to the right place. Their is a lot if combined years ready and willing to pass it on. You certainly have plenty of bike for touring. For 2&3 day rides I don't think frame packs are nesssesary. In fact with front and rear racks and a detachable handle bar bag I think your covered. Sleeping bag, tent, mat, stove, pan, change of clothing, socks, food. This doesn't include tools, parts, tubes but even on loooong tours this list doesn't need to be bigger. Dragging a loaded touring bike up an endless hill is no joy to start with and every item you don't use adding to the weight lessens that joy. Of course you have to suit yourself on the essentials. Paperbacks were an important part. Now it's a charger for the phone/flashlight. Washing your clothes at night and air drying during the day keeps you "fresh".
Organized touring usually involves a sag/sweep wagon and sometimes breaks into a race to the next stop. Your touring bike might be overkill but I like familiar and comfortable things so I'd stay with it and above all enjoy every memory. You remember the good times but more vividly, the tough times when you overcame. 😏
#10
Banned.
#11
Senior Member
I agree with cyccomute that the Topeak bag is not the ideal touring/bike-packing choice. It might do the job if it's what you have. I love that bag as a commuting accessory. But as a touring accessory it weighs more with a lower capacity than actual panniers, and is not as robust as better touring gear. I find the rack is fine, though. I've taken plenty of trips using Ortleib panniers on my Topeak rack.
If you're no longer looking specifically at bike-packing, then a rack and pannier combination can be one of the most versatile set-ups and get you the most carrying capacity. But if you can travel light, and get all the required gear in a seat bag and handlebar roll, then I still think it's worth investigating for the weight savings, but I still prefer the versatility of a good, rear rack. I have abandoned my front rack in favor of a handlebar roll and frame bag, though. But if you need to carry a lot of gear, the four pannier set-up is still likely the most stable and easy to manage. But unless you have some extreme capacity needs, I wouldn't go for a front rack, rear rack, and frame bag, but that's more personal preference. For bikepacking gear, there are some great, cottage vendors, but I've been really happy with my Revelate gear. https://www.revelatedesigns.com/ For traditional panniers, you'll find a variety of opinions, but Ortleib seems to be the most popular choice, and it's certainly my preference.
If you're no longer looking specifically at bike-packing, then a rack and pannier combination can be one of the most versatile set-ups and get you the most carrying capacity. But if you can travel light, and get all the required gear in a seat bag and handlebar roll, then I still think it's worth investigating for the weight savings, but I still prefer the versatility of a good, rear rack. I have abandoned my front rack in favor of a handlebar roll and frame bag, though. But if you need to carry a lot of gear, the four pannier set-up is still likely the most stable and easy to manage. But unless you have some extreme capacity needs, I wouldn't go for a front rack, rear rack, and frame bag, but that's more personal preference. For bikepacking gear, there are some great, cottage vendors, but I've been really happy with my Revelate gear. https://www.revelatedesigns.com/ For traditional panniers, you'll find a variety of opinions, but Ortleib seems to be the most popular choice, and it's certainly my preference.
#12
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I think you can safely mix and match classic touring gear and bikepacking setups to fit your needs. Both the marrakesh and the journeyman como with a great deal of places to attach things so you have versatility.
Consider what you need and where to carry it. You want heavy things secure and as low as you can, and you are more free with the lighter stuff.
I would go with the following setup:
Rear rack
full frame bag
handlebar harness
top tube bag
bottle cages on the fork blades and below the bb.
this way you can carry a good amount of water ( for example 2x 1 lt bottles on the blades and 1x 750ml at the bb, without even needing oversized cages)
You can carry sleeping gear, that is light and bulky on the handlebar harness.
this way, you use the front to carry things but without loading it with weight that could affect the handling.
on the framebag you can carry heavy stuff, like additional water in a bladder, tools, spares, electronics, tent poles, and food.
on the top tube bag you carry snacks, phone, wallet and that sort of things.
and in the rear rack, you can, according to your needs, use your commuter bag, panniers, or simply strap things.
This way, I think, you can mix between the comfort and ease of use of traditional rack set up and the minimalism and lightweight of bikepacking, and also leaving your bikes practical for commuting when not travelling.
Consider what you need and where to carry it. You want heavy things secure and as low as you can, and you are more free with the lighter stuff.
I would go with the following setup:
Rear rack
full frame bag
handlebar harness
top tube bag
bottle cages on the fork blades and below the bb.
this way you can carry a good amount of water ( for example 2x 1 lt bottles on the blades and 1x 750ml at the bb, without even needing oversized cages)
You can carry sleeping gear, that is light and bulky on the handlebar harness.
this way, you use the front to carry things but without loading it with weight that could affect the handling.
on the framebag you can carry heavy stuff, like additional water in a bladder, tools, spares, electronics, tent poles, and food.
on the top tube bag you carry snacks, phone, wallet and that sort of things.
and in the rear rack, you can, according to your needs, use your commuter bag, panniers, or simply strap things.
This way, I think, you can mix between the comfort and ease of use of traditional rack set up and the minimalism and lightweight of bikepacking, and also leaving your bikes practical for commuting when not travelling.
#13
Senior Member
Think long and hard about what you really need to carry. Go over the list over and over again eliminating the fat. Then actually assemble the gear into one place see how well it all packs. Work on compressing every thing. Remember that you do not need to carry much food or other consumables, better to buy daily or at least as close to daily as the remoteness of the trip allows.
Then figure out the best way to carry what you assembled.
Here are my thoughts on a overnight bike bag setup as well as additional hardware:
Obtain some fenders for front and back wheels
Obtain some fenders for front and back wheels
Last edited by staehpj1; 07-31-19 at 06:49 AM.
#14
Senior Member
re fenders--personally I see no problem with them, ie they dont bug me on the bikes that I have them, and I have a bike without that I ride often--but boy, when I ride that bike and its wet, do I ever remember right away how messy one gets without fenders--and I'm talking just me, not my drivetrain, chain etc
but thats personal.
as per a mirror--this I feel strongly about. We wouldnt drive our cars around without mirrors, and sure as heck wouldnt ride a motorcycle without one, and not being as situational aware as much as you can is just raising risk.
I always remember getting my first mirror after a few tours, and realizing how much more relaxed I was having one. I knew when the rear approaching truck or RV or whatever was moving over, I knew and could judge distances of a rear approaching truck as a forward approaching truck and me were all meeting at the same spot in time and place, or not
the majority of times it meant that I could relax and not be tense about all of us being close to each other, if I knew there was time for one to move over.
yes, part of my view on this is coming from a motorcycle background, but I feel strongly about how the use of a mirror significantly reduces risk by giving you a heads up on stuff, and not just "hoping for the best" in many situations where its not safe to turn and have a look
and yes, I write this stuff for the new guy, or gal, and hope it gets a point across.
To me there is no downside to using a mirror.
but thats personal.
as per a mirror--this I feel strongly about. We wouldnt drive our cars around without mirrors, and sure as heck wouldnt ride a motorcycle without one, and not being as situational aware as much as you can is just raising risk.
I always remember getting my first mirror after a few tours, and realizing how much more relaxed I was having one. I knew when the rear approaching truck or RV or whatever was moving over, I knew and could judge distances of a rear approaching truck as a forward approaching truck and me were all meeting at the same spot in time and place, or not
the majority of times it meant that I could relax and not be tense about all of us being close to each other, if I knew there was time for one to move over.
yes, part of my view on this is coming from a motorcycle background, but I feel strongly about how the use of a mirror significantly reduces risk by giving you a heads up on stuff, and not just "hoping for the best" in many situations where its not safe to turn and have a look
and yes, I write this stuff for the new guy, or gal, and hope it gets a point across.
To me there is no downside to using a mirror.
#15
Senior Member
re fenders--personally I see no problem with them, ie they dont bug me on the bikes that I have them, and I have a bike without that I ride often--but boy, when I ride that bike and its wet, do I ever remember right away how messy one gets without fenders--and I'm talking just me, not my drivetrain, chain etc
but thats personal.
as per a mirror--this I feel strongly about. We wouldnt drive our cars around without mirrors, and sure as heck wouldnt ride a motorcycle without one, and not being as situational aware as much as you can is just raising risk.
I always remember getting my first mirror after a few tours, and realizing how much more relaxed I was having one. I knew when the rear approaching truck or RV or whatever was moving over, I knew and could judge distances of a rear approaching truck as a forward approaching truck and me were all meeting at the same spot in time and place, or not
the majority of times it meant that I could relax and not be tense about all of us being close to each other, if I knew there was time for one to move over.
yes, part of my view on this is coming from a motorcycle background, but I feel strongly about how the use of a mirror significantly reduces risk by giving you a heads up on stuff, and not just "hoping for the best" in many situations where its not safe to turn and have a look
and yes, I write this stuff for the new guy, or gal, and hope it gets a point across.
To me there is no downside to using a mirror.
but thats personal.
as per a mirror--this I feel strongly about. We wouldnt drive our cars around without mirrors, and sure as heck wouldnt ride a motorcycle without one, and not being as situational aware as much as you can is just raising risk.
I always remember getting my first mirror after a few tours, and realizing how much more relaxed I was having one. I knew when the rear approaching truck or RV or whatever was moving over, I knew and could judge distances of a rear approaching truck as a forward approaching truck and me were all meeting at the same spot in time and place, or not
the majority of times it meant that I could relax and not be tense about all of us being close to each other, if I knew there was time for one to move over.
yes, part of my view on this is coming from a motorcycle background, but I feel strongly about how the use of a mirror significantly reduces risk by giving you a heads up on stuff, and not just "hoping for the best" in many situations where its not safe to turn and have a look
and yes, I write this stuff for the new guy, or gal, and hope it gets a point across.
To me there is no downside to using a mirror.
That said, if anything on tour I am more likely to find myself on roads where I can hear tire noise of approaching vehicles for a half mile off. I still would be inclined to do the same on tour as at home though.
Pretty much the same deal with fenders. For utilitarian riding like commuting or running errands at least Id' think folks would just do the same on tour as at home. I guess there is one big difference with fenders though. Some may either be racers or want a racer vibe and resist fenders at home and not care about that vibe on tour. That or they may be fair weather riders at home and just not ride in the rain or on wet roads after a rain. So I can see an argument for doing differently on tour if that is the case.
Personally I spent a lot of time riding/racing mountain bikes in the rain/snow/sleet/mud and riding on the road in all kinds of weather and never really minded not having fenders. For me rain generally isn't a reason to not ride unless it is torrential and sometimes I go out even then. I did a few long tours with fenders and since then some without. Others like fenders and that is great, but yeah I just don't generally see a tour as the reason to suddenly start to use them unless maybe you live in the desert and are going to someplace it rains every day or otherwise are suddenly starting to ride in wet conditions.
So I come back to; if you like fenders, mirror, kick stand, baseball card noisemaker in your spokes, or whatever and use them at home you probably should on tour too, if not you probably shouldn't unless there is some specific reason why your tour conditions are different.
#16
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Figuring out what you want to carry and then the bags is a good idea.
I have recently embraced a mixed set up of traditional and bikepacking bags to suit my purpose and flex them between various rigs.
The frame bag can expand if wanted or zip smaller and allow two water bottles in the frame.
The panniers on the rear are designed for the front but I don't need the large volume of rear bags so they serve well.
A simple dry bag with a harness works as a handle bar bag and I sometimes use a gas tank bag for my camera and snacks.
Both bikes have rear racks and if I wanted to forgo the panniers (single track or very bumpy roads that would shake the panniers loose) I can bungee a drybag on top.
Even though I have a seat bag I dislike them for trips as they hold less volume than a saddlebag and risk flopping down on the rear wheel if the straps fail (seen that happen).
With panniers, saddlebag, drybag, frame bag and gas tank bag I can flex the system for equipment size and terrain needs.
Here are two pics using the same gear on two very different bikes
I have recently embraced a mixed set up of traditional and bikepacking bags to suit my purpose and flex them between various rigs.
The frame bag can expand if wanted or zip smaller and allow two water bottles in the frame.
The panniers on the rear are designed for the front but I don't need the large volume of rear bags so they serve well.
A simple dry bag with a harness works as a handle bar bag and I sometimes use a gas tank bag for my camera and snacks.
Both bikes have rear racks and if I wanted to forgo the panniers (single track or very bumpy roads that would shake the panniers loose) I can bungee a drybag on top.
Even though I have a seat bag I dislike them for trips as they hold less volume than a saddlebag and risk flopping down on the rear wheel if the straps fail (seen that happen).
With panniers, saddlebag, drybag, frame bag and gas tank bag I can flex the system for equipment size and terrain needs.
Here are two pics using the same gear on two very different bikes
#17
Senior Member
no prob Staehp, I just cannot resist doing the "pro mirror" thing for folks new to biking on travelled roads.
and yes, the old "baseball card in the spokes" thing really was the coolest thing when we were kids, your good natured comment makes me hear the childhood sounds of that in my head. They were a pretty good audio speedometer werent they?
and yes, the old "baseball card in the spokes" thing really was the coolest thing when we were kids, your good natured comment makes me hear the childhood sounds of that in my head. They were a pretty good audio speedometer werent they?
#18
Senior Member
#19
Senior Member
I have been touring since 1975 and have used equipment in the past that would be deemed ill-suited for touring. I still use some ill-suited items and they work just fine. I am also a thrifty person that does not buy cheap stuff unless it is really well made (if that is even possible!).
Back in 75 the Pletcher rack was the standard off the shelf rear rack for the common man. The upper echelon had racks built for their touring rigs. My riding buddy and I toured all over the Midwest using Pletcher racks and had zero problems. Another friend of mine road cross country on his Schwinn Continental using a Pletcher rack without trouble. Of course, they are out of date now, but the point is, the Topeak rack you have will be just fine.
Keeping it simple is the best solution to avoid a problem. Rear panniers of 2000cc will hold enough gear and clothing for a month long tour, and a handlebar bag will provide room for maps, camera, snacks, and some other items provided it is large enough. So don't get a small handlebar bag and if the panniers are a single compartment each side, organization and bagged items are the only way to go.
Never used front rack or bags. Never needed the extra room as we were only out there for 4 weeks max. Bikes were slightly light on the front end, but we understood this and didn't ride like idiots.
Summer time is typically warm and a winter rated sleeping bag is not necessary. If it is all you have on hand, then that is OK by me. User a waterproof stuff sack to carry on the bike. The tent we used was a Eureka timberline about 7 pounds and never failed us. The same model is still sold today. Buy what you can afford, or better yet, borrow one if you can for the first time out.
Cooking gear for me was a simple and cheap Sterno stove. Pete had a Gerry LP stove. It could boil water faster than mine, but in the end it made zero difference to me. As long as I could eat I was happy. Keeping cooking simple meant using a simple canteen kit courtesy of Uncle Sam. Still use it to this day. A little big, but it works and I still have plenty of room in the panniers.
Groceries started out with us, but as we ran out of supplies we visited local grocery stores for fresh fruits and canned goods. At that point, because we were not off in the wilderness we grocery shopped each day toward the end of that days ride. Always made sure we had our Gerry Tubes filled with peanut butter and jelly along with a loaf of bread. Yes it got smashed, but when one is hungry a bite of bread and squirt of PB&J from the tubes worked really well!
Didn't have bike computers back then, but I use a simple Cateye Velo 8 now. I don't need GPS as I am pretty good at mapless navigation, but I do have maps to set a general course that I carry with me. For my cross country tour that I plan on doing I will be using the Adventure Cycling maps.
With all this said, there are a million ways to go about the simple job of carrying gear, just keep it simple. Don't over think it and take test tours starting with a weekend and then a week to see what your needs and wants are.
Back in 75 the Pletcher rack was the standard off the shelf rear rack for the common man. The upper echelon had racks built for their touring rigs. My riding buddy and I toured all over the Midwest using Pletcher racks and had zero problems. Another friend of mine road cross country on his Schwinn Continental using a Pletcher rack without trouble. Of course, they are out of date now, but the point is, the Topeak rack you have will be just fine.
Keeping it simple is the best solution to avoid a problem. Rear panniers of 2000cc will hold enough gear and clothing for a month long tour, and a handlebar bag will provide room for maps, camera, snacks, and some other items provided it is large enough. So don't get a small handlebar bag and if the panniers are a single compartment each side, organization and bagged items are the only way to go.
Never used front rack or bags. Never needed the extra room as we were only out there for 4 weeks max. Bikes were slightly light on the front end, but we understood this and didn't ride like idiots.
Summer time is typically warm and a winter rated sleeping bag is not necessary. If it is all you have on hand, then that is OK by me. User a waterproof stuff sack to carry on the bike. The tent we used was a Eureka timberline about 7 pounds and never failed us. The same model is still sold today. Buy what you can afford, or better yet, borrow one if you can for the first time out.
Cooking gear for me was a simple and cheap Sterno stove. Pete had a Gerry LP stove. It could boil water faster than mine, but in the end it made zero difference to me. As long as I could eat I was happy. Keeping cooking simple meant using a simple canteen kit courtesy of Uncle Sam. Still use it to this day. A little big, but it works and I still have plenty of room in the panniers.
Groceries started out with us, but as we ran out of supplies we visited local grocery stores for fresh fruits and canned goods. At that point, because we were not off in the wilderness we grocery shopped each day toward the end of that days ride. Always made sure we had our Gerry Tubes filled with peanut butter and jelly along with a loaf of bread. Yes it got smashed, but when one is hungry a bite of bread and squirt of PB&J from the tubes worked really well!
Didn't have bike computers back then, but I use a simple Cateye Velo 8 now. I don't need GPS as I am pretty good at mapless navigation, but I do have maps to set a general course that I carry with me. For my cross country tour that I plan on doing I will be using the Adventure Cycling maps.
With all this said, there are a million ways to go about the simple job of carrying gear, just keep it simple. Don't over think it and take test tours starting with a weekend and then a week to see what your needs and wants are.
#20
Banned.
Use a waterproof stuff sack to carry on the bike.
The tent we used was a Eureka timberline about 7 pounds and never failed us. The same model is still sold today.
Always made sure we had our Gerry Tubes filled with peanut butter and jelly along with a loaf of bread.
For my cross country tour that I plan on doing I will be using the Adventure Cycling maps.
#21
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I don't know why this isn't always the first and most obvious answer. It is a way better approach than buying baggage and then filling it IMO.
Think long and hard about what you really need to carry. Go over the list over and over again eliminating the fat. Then actually assemble the gear into one place see how well it all packs. Work on compressing every thing. Remember that you do not need to carry much food or other consumables, better to buy daily or at least as close to daily as the remoteness of the trip allows.
Then figure out the best way to carry what you assembled.
I thought that on my first big tour and added fenders. I found them more trouble than they were worth. I have since given up on them after using them on quite a few tours and mostly cursing them. I think that folks tend to think they need to go for things for touring that they don't use at home. A lot of them might be better assessed by whether you use them at home. I think that things like fenders and mirrors are often in that category. If you use them at home it is a slam dunk that you will want them on tour, but IMO if not I wouldn't add them just because it is a tour. Just me, but I'd advise doing what you are used to on stuff like that.
Think long and hard about what you really need to carry. Go over the list over and over again eliminating the fat. Then actually assemble the gear into one place see how well it all packs. Work on compressing every thing. Remember that you do not need to carry much food or other consumables, better to buy daily or at least as close to daily as the remoteness of the trip allows.
Then figure out the best way to carry what you assembled.
I thought that on my first big tour and added fenders. I found them more trouble than they were worth. I have since given up on them after using them on quite a few tours and mostly cursing them. I think that folks tend to think they need to go for things for touring that they don't use at home. A lot of them might be better assessed by whether you use them at home. I think that things like fenders and mirrors are often in that category. If you use them at home it is a slam dunk that you will want them on tour, but IMO if not I wouldn't add them just because it is a tour. Just me, but I'd advise doing what you are used to on stuff like that.
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Personally no, but touring is even tougher. When a truck or rv is moving over to clear an oncoming car and the bike lane has turned into a crumbling line that you must ride inside is a situation that rarely comes up in commuting. Still since my neck doesn't swivel like it used to, I can't ride anywhere except maybe a test ride in the neighborhood without one.
#24
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The larger bags in that picture are 40 L (4000cc). I've got clothes and bulky items in that bag while the front bags hold cooking stuff and food.
That depends on the rider and their preferences. If I were doing hotel touring, I'd just use my small front bags and a handlebar bag. If I'm doing camping, I'd use front and rear (4 bags) for anything over about 4 days. If I'm doing off-road, my approach is bikepacking. It's not a good a system in my opinion but it better for rough riding than panniers.
me old by Stuart Black, on Flickr
If you look at my pictures in post 3, you can see that the Timberline takes up as much room as my bag, pad and tent do now.
Adventure Cycling Association is a bicycle touring organization that dates from the US Bicentennial. They were originally "BikeCentennial". They set up the TransAmerica Bikecentennial Trail in 1975 to celebrate the country's 200th birthday. Many people use their maps for touring.
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Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
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#25
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bikejedi, for someone who says they are always connected to the net, you ask and want answers to "what is 2000cc" or "what is a gerry tube" etc , yet a 3 second google search gives you the answers. I almost wonder if you are yanking our 7, 8, 9 and 10 speed chains here a bit....you knew right away that a certain type of emergency alarm was the button type, and not the pull tab type, so you know how to search for details of stuff.
Last edited by djb; 08-06-19 at 06:13 PM.
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