Koyote

Spend a little more time around here, particularly in threads that reference tubeless tires, cf wheels, and the like. It's pretty obvious.

You've lost the plot: I've never told anyone to change their equipment, nor pretended that my own use-cases are universal; my objections are to uninformed people spreading misinformation about newer tech -- tech that they obviously don't understand and have not tried. (And for what it's worth, I was just out in the garage for the past hour working on my steel-framed 9 speed bike that has rim brakes and -- GASP -- inner tubes!)

Yup.

seypat

The best part about is no commentation. Just the sights and sounds. In today's world of overproduced sports(overproduced everything), it's a breath of fresh air. No fireworks, lights shows or hype men/women.

3alarmer 

...yes, you ride a lot in groups or on trails. I don't doubt at all it's better and probably safer in those circumstances. I, on the other hand, ride solo most days, and pretty much on asphalt. For me, integrated shifters are just overkill, and I dislike the need to return my hands to the hoods in order to shift. I have brifters on some bicycles, so the idea that I have just never experienced the joy of integrated shifters is mistaken. They work fine, I know how to use them.

That won't prevent the repetition of it ad infinitum.

I would not ride fast in a close group with someone using friction DT. Or if I had to, I'd maintain a large gap between us. But the chances of me riding in a group is pretty limited at this point. Not my thing. That's more of a road thing.

seypat

That could of been the beginning of the end. Seems like that group isn't compatible with any other Shimano stuff. I could be wrong.

3alarmer 

...that is unlikely to happen. But I did ask who those people are. I'm not going looking because I've seen what happens in the last year's epic heavier is better wheel rims thread. I already gave.


...if you can find someplace where I've said anything, other than disc brakes might be overkill for a lot of use cases, as well as tubeless, I'd like to see it. If there are people coming in here from the C+V, picking on you, I apologize for them. But I have seen the unholy likes alliance in full swing here, and it quickly becomes a lesson in group dynamics. I try very hard not to post advice about stuff I haven't personally experienced.

Yet it seems to have been my posting that triggered your rant about C+V bullies, invading the general cycling forum. The timing coincidence seems to be an unavoidable fact. If it was not intended to address me, I was thoroughly fooled. So congratulations.



...see above. I'm over and out, having once again overstayed my welcome.

seypat

I'll say that most any other brand of STI out there is an improvement over the crunchy, long throw of a Shimano brake lever shift.

3alarmer 

...it was new, and it worked precisely and flawlessly. Why would you care about compatibility, when there would be newer and better stuff next year ? Sell it to some retrogrouch and move on.

big john

When I started riding with a road club there weren't any brifters. Most everyone had DT. A friend raced and did quite well with bar ends. Freaked other racers out but I guess they got used to it when he was winning a lot.

I used friction on some of my mountain bikes. Always had triples until 2018 when I bought a mountain bike with a 1by. It's an XT 11 speed and it's great.

RH Clark

According to Click and Clack that's the wrong way to come to a stop. Dropping a gear isn't the same as Downshifting through every one, like it's the proper way to decelerate.

13ollocks

"niche" isn't a criticism - as I said, I used bar-ends once and I liked them fine. I'm using "niche" here because bar-ends represent such a small proportion of shifters out there that, for a general discussion of friction- vs indexed shifting, they don't really warrant inclusion. Clearly people use them and like them - just not that many.

Eric F 

This weekend, I watched video coverage of the CX World Championships that had no commentary. It was pretty nice.

Eric F 

Hmmm...I prefer Shimano STI over Campy Ergo. My opinion is only based on the 5yo Campy Record 11s on my Storck, however. Compared to Shimano (I've used 8, 9, 10, and 11s), Campy feels less refined. My only SRAM experience is XX1 1x12 on my MTB, and I like it just fine.

genejockey 

"'Return'?"
"Forget it. He's rolling."

genejockey 

I think it was somebody else.

Eric F 

Just curious...Where are your hands most of the time?

For me, on a drop bar bike, I'm on the hoods way more often than not.

HTupolev

On an older road bike with non-aero brake levers, it often makes sense to fit it so that the drops are a primary cruising position. Whereas modern hoods are designed as handrests, those hoods are better thought of as grip nubs, both due to the shape of the hoods and the brake lever geometry (which is similar to the brake levers of flat bars, and not optimized for operation from the "back" of the lever like on modern brifters).

This approach has obvious benefits when using bar-end shifters, but it also provides relatively direct access to the shifters when they're on the downtube. If the bike fits well and you're in the drops, there's not much "reaching" to the shifters, you just sort of let your arm drop inwards and your hand gets where it needs to be.

Eric F 

Even on my bike with non-aero brake levers and friction DT shifters, I tend to ride on the hoods more, but then again the saddle-bar drop is set up that way on my bike. That said, I don't ride that bike very much.

If you're riding in the drops on an STI bike, there is no need to move up to the hoods to use any of the controls. Everything is at your fingertips without having to let go of the handlebar at all. That's why I asked 3alarmer's for a clarification on the comment.

SurferRosa

Thanks, but I don't know what that is and now I also don't want to know what that is.

Koyote

I was not referring to you, nor was I attempting to fool you; like most of us, you just want to believe that everything is about you.

To my knowledge, you're not one of the posters providing misinfo about all of these newfangled thingamajigies.

By the way, you mentioned that you asked me to name names...Surely you've been around here long enough (as have I) to know that that is a no-no.

HTupolev

No, but the shifting ergonomics usually aren't as good from the drops. When doing complex shifts (like a front shift with a lot of compensatory rear shifting), I'll sometimes put one or both hands on the hoods before initiating it, to make it easier to resolve the shift quickly once it begins.

Electronic drivetrains can substantially alleviate this, due to the light button action and freedom of shifter placement, and optional automatic shift patterns.

tomato coupe

It refers to the two hosts of Car Talk, a program that ran on NPR from the mid 70s until roughly 10 years ago. It was a call-in show about cars with a very heavy emphasis on humor.

3alarmer 

...my hands wander all over the bar. I move them a lot. And I can do double shifts (F+R) with one hand with DT shifters. This is important to me when I am riding on something set up with half step gearing. But what is important to me is less important to you. I think that was my original point.

...I don't mind quoting you from the recent tire width/pressures thread, just FYI.

So forgive me for thinking that, yes, maybe you do have a tendency to preach about what to ride, and how it should be ridden. You might, at this point, be unaware of how you've dropped into a style of mansplaining stuff to people who might actually know almost as much as you do, about things bicycle. But I can tell you, from personal experience, that it's obvious from your contributions along the way.

I'm happy you have a 9 cogged rear on one of your (steel framed) bicycles. That you consider that, somehow, as a credential for expert commentary on what does, and does not, work well for a variety of user demographics says something. I'm just not sure what it says, exactly.

Here was my own, naive but well meaning, initial post in that thread:

But I'm not going to get sucked into any more of this. I went for a short run in a break between storms here, had a late lunch of hash and eggs, and now plan a leisurely shower. Wish me luck on the water temperature, because I wouldn't want to violate current popular norms on that. I know that back in the olde days, cold showers were popular in the athletic literature.

Koyote

In the context of the thread, those quotes mean something very different than is suggested by your cherry-picking...and your petulant condescension makes your "mansplaining" accusation seem like a bit of projection.

Hope you enjoy the shower. It'll give you a chance to be all wet, and not just figuratively.

Atlas Shrugged

Shifting through the down tube may sound simple, but one can't help but imagine contorted hand gymnastics reminiscent of a bicycle-based Rubik's Cube. The elegance of simplicity might be debatable in this case.

smd4

With DT shifters at least I don’t need to worry about cable fraying. And they’re lighter.