tiger1964 

Hmm, before examining the brakes closely, I ordered a replacement set of salmon Kool-Stops for the Suntour Superbe; "out for delivery" today. Cool (Kool?) but, looking more closely (mostly as I had to grind the caliper slots 3.5 more mm to get more reach on the rear), I see the pad holders enclose the pads on FOUR sides, not three. OK - now what? Off the top of my head, I can (a) pry open the 4th side, work the old pad out and the new pad in, and fold the 4th side back in and hope I get a nice appearance, (b) cut the 4th side off, end up with 3-sided retention like so many other brakes, and hope I can clean up the holder where I cut the metal off, (c) send the Kool-Stops back and ride using pads dating from the Reagan era, if not earlier. They look OK, but I presume looks and performance might be at odds.

Am I missing other alternatives? Of course, there's (d) dispose of the holders and replacement pads and put others in, like a set of Campys I have laying around. Not sure what my BF Search criterion might have been on this one.

Have not located a Park BPHP-1 (Brake Pad Holder Press) online yet for option (a).

Drillium Dude 

Speaking from recent experience, their performance is amazingly bad - and the badness is announced loud and clear by a banshee wail with every application of the brakes. I removed and sold the brakes as a result! The funny thing is I still have a mint spare set that came with them - but they're relegated to the display case for all time due to their lack of functionality.

I'd go for Option B.

DD

tiger1964 

Thanks for the response, DD; by "performance is amazingly bad", do you mean the pads... or the calipers? I surely hope it's the former; this is my first all-over-Japanese-components build, and while I can probably locate some MAFACs for the bike, I'd rather not. Option (b) does beckon, I thought I might try (a) first and if my hands are still intact and not overly punctured, I can move on to "b"... but I presume I'm not the first to encounter "encircled pads". Moreover, what for crying out loud was Suntour's motivation in the first place?

obrentharris 

Options "a" and "b" often end up being the same since the 4th side often breaks off after being opened then shut. So either way the rough edge cleans up nicely with a few strokes of the file.
Brent

Drillium Dude 

I assume it was the pads, tho I did notice that the calipers felt as though they flexed a bit more than the Campy Record calipers I normally use. The squealing-pig noises were certainly coming from the pads; said pads were pretty rock-hard, too (same with the display pair).

The fully-enclosed pads/holders were found on a lot of brakes back in the day as the pad and holder were often seen as a throwaway item - at least the Superbe holders had separate wheel guides which could be re-used over and over.

One thing for sure: if you wind up cutting off one end, ensure you cut them off from the back - you don't want one with the opening facing forwards for obvious reasons

DD

Vintage_Cyclist

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...l#post20798405

Brad L 

I replaced the original pads in my 4-sided Weinmann pad holders by gripping the old pad in a vise and prying the holder off. To install the new pad, I pushed it into the holder as best I could, then squeezed it the rest of the way in with the vise. Worked great!

Classtime 

It’s worth jamming those Kool Stops in those holders. I did it for some very nice Dia-Compes that were likely pre-branded Superbe. Now, while I was doing it, I wished I wasn’t but the brakes were pretty nice with modern cables and housing.

smontanaro 

The Superbe holders are easy to pry open on a long side. I use a putty knife or paint scraper. Only open them the smallest amount necessary. I generally lube the new pad slightly to ease insertion, then use a vise with padding on the jaws to close things back up. Make real sure everything's seated properly and the holders are closed up tight. Not something you want to pop out during a ride.

I have some first gen Dura-Ace brakes as well. I've yet to be able to pry them open in this manner. I think I'm going to have to cut off the back end so I can slide the pads out and back in like you'd do with Campagnolo Record holders.

Highmass

I can confirm Drillum Dude´s claim that they´re horrible AND that they squeal like crazy. I have a bike from 1982 that was pretty much new when I bought it, and the Superbe brakes were FAR from superb, and they were very noisy.
As my brake pads looked like new, I didn´t want to destroy them. As the Superbe brakes were made by Dia-Compe, I choose to buy some new Dia-Compe pads. The GC76AL pads (Holders with either brown OR black inserts) have looks that are pretty close to the original Superbe pads. They work way better than the old pads, and they don´t squeal. They are still not as good as modern pads, but for what I use them for, they are acceptable, and they look quite close to the originals. They could however likely be improved with Kool-stop inserts. That way you can get looks that are close to right, presumably good stopping power, AND avoid ruining the originals.

smontanaro 

I've never had problems with the Superbe brakes, though the original pads tend to age much worse than the competition. If the salmon pads aren't too your taste, I believe Kool-Stop now makes black compound pads as well.

Andy_K 

I had some Superbe brakes and what I think were original salmon-ish pads. On first ride they were, shall we say, the kind of brakes that won't slow you down. But then I sanded off the outer layer and they worked great. YMMV

tiger1964 

Did not know about the Dia-Compe/Suntour connection. Interesting.

And I have both paint scrapers and putty knives here; plenty of household tools. I just want to end up with my hands intact.

Interesting and I see the Superbe arrived already toed-in; indeed, seems like the arms are toed in at four different angles. Possibly trying to reduce squeal. Then again, I'd had my share of MAFAC squeal.

I saw those - for some reason stuck with the salmon.

Good tip! and easier to do now than after the pads are on the bike.

smontanaro 

Mine still are. I think you'll be fine. Just exercise the usual modicum of caution.

Edit: I requested Kool-Stop to make the Superbe reproduction pads a few years ago. I sent them holders/pads and some dimensions from someone on BF who had some NOS pads. They returned my holders to me with several complimentary sets of pads, one of which was installed in one of my holders. I'd never performed that sort of holder surgery before and asked about it. They basically said, "easy peasy." With that recommendation in my brain, I went ahead and performed my first pad transplant. The rest, as they say, is history.

As for Drillium Dude's contention that the Superbe brakes were substandard, I believe they are just about identical geometrically to Campy Record. I would think the only significant difference between the two are the pads.

SJX426 

I have a set of hidden spring Pros on the 760. Kool stop pads. They rival any of the dual pivot brakes I have, Campagnolo.

I was shocked!

Classtime 

You CAN install the new pads without bending the sides of the holders. It is work. By the 4th pad, you will have it down, but you won’t want to do it again.

tiger1964 

OK, done, and my hands survived. Putty knife made little inroads, ended up using a straight-slot screwdriver on a short-end of the holder; this pried the pads out, and/but bent the aluminum short-end out 30 to 45 degrees, so this is a hybrid result. Lubrication merely meant I could not get a grip on the pads so I stopped that. I did trim a fraction of a mm off one corner of the rubber's "flange" so I could get them started. By my measurement, the widest part of the flange is 3mm wider than the holders' narrowest dimension, I do not see how I would have succeeded get old pads out or new pads in without bending (unless there's the equivalent of those cork squeezers that wineries use to install corks, just to compress the brake pad). Once started, I used the bench vise as a press, only minor marring. All tight now, I did my best to know which narrow end I bent and placed that so, if it breaks off in use (I think unlikely), the pads won't come flying out.

Hmm, my bike-shop days were 45 years ago, so I do not remember, and in most cases, yeah, would simply replace the whole assembly. Now you have me squeezing the brakes to see if I perceive flexing.

Very interesting story about your involvement with Kool-Stop!

Sounds like a different set -- much different -- than the ones I have?

Interesting story about you and Kool-Stop!

Sounds like a different set than I have.

You got that part right!

Roger M

Thanks OP for starting this thread. I have a set of Superbe brakes with less than a hundred miles on them. They work, but the blocks feel pretty hard, and they make some noise.

I found some Koolstop blocks on ebay. I will be using the tips here to get them swapped.

Chombi1 

When I replaced the brake pads on my Weinmann Carrera 400 calipers with new ones from Kool Stop, I just pulled out the old pads with pliers and then put the new brake pads in really hot water for a while, before squeezing them into the holders with tape padded channelock pliers. The hot water makes the new pads softer and more pliable, making it easier to slip them into the holders and I did not have to bend out the holder sides to get them in.