dglevy

Hi all, I have a friend who is looking at a 2003 steel framed bike to purchase. The description looks good. If the bike is still available, we are going to go look at it tomorrow. I will inspect the frame for cracks, of course, but I'm wondering how to check to see if it's bent. I found this thread on BF. The consensus is to measure both sides with string but I don't want to get into that if I can avoid it. One comment was that one can ride the bike with no hands on the handlebars and, if it won't track straight, then the frame is bent. Is this a reliable measure?

veganbikes

No that is not a reliable measure a reliable measure is using proper frame tools tools that are made for this very purpose. You could use string and that will be a lot more reliable than taking your hands off the bars and taking a wild guess.

*Scuba 

Riding no hands is definitely not a reliable way to tell if a frame is bent or not. I would not recommend this method. If you don't have access to a frame alignment gauge, I would highly recommend string and ruler method,

The reasons why "riding no hand is not reliable".
1) If the headset is loose, the bike might be twitchy and you won't be able to ride no hand
2) If the headset bearings is too tight, the bike will want to pull in one specific direction
Neither of these poor ride feel actually lets you know whether the frame is true or not

Also, I once repurposed a vintage Specialized Crossroad from the original flat handlebars into drop handlebars with STI controls and that bike, no matter what I did was very difficult to ride with no hands. So, the test riding it with no hands on the bar method wouldn't let me know whether the frame was okay or not.

JohnDThompson 

That can tell you that something is not right, but not whether it is the frame or fork or something else.

dglevy

Thanks, everyone, for your comments! Thus far, though, the impression I'm getting is that riding no hands, if the bike won't ride straight or is too unstable--that tells you there's a problem, bent frame or other problem. But what if the bike rides straight and is not unstable. Does that tell you the frame is not bent? Let me put it a better way: Has anyone had the experience of riding a bent frame that did ride straight?

veganbikes

I don't ride bent frames and wouldn't suggest anyone else do the same. I would at least use the string and ruler method and double check or just pass on the bike. Why are you trying to not do this? Are you afraid of string or frame alignment tools or are you too cheap for string or do you just want to sing Flobots-Handlebars while actually doing that?

_ForceD_

Concur with above. Just because you can’t ride with no hands doesn’t mean the frame is bent. Once on a rebuild I inadvertently replace the top and bottom bearing races for the headset inverted (top on bottom, bottom on top). That caused the bike to no steer properly, and couldn’t ride with no hands. Once reassembled it correctly...steering was fine and I could ride it no hands.

Dan

3alarmer 

...the only thing you can determine from riding no hands is that if it does not happen, with your weight centered on the saddle, either the wheels are out of alignment (for any one of multiple reasons). Or possible that it is a very steeply angled frame, designed that way to allow for quick lane changes with minimum effort on the bar. Even then, it can be possible to ride no hands on a frame that is misaligned, iff you shift your weight to one side or the other, depending on the misalignment.

It's not a good test because it doesn't really tell you much. Compare it with taking your pulse and blood pressure, then trying to diagnose an illness.

cbrstar

I had a older Nishiki 80's road bike like this. It wasn't until I was putting on a nicer upgraded set of wheels that I realized the new wheel simply didn't want to align. I realized the previous owner had offset the dishing of the old wheel very slightly to compensate. Most bikes don't need to be perfect and the beautiful thing about steel is it's easily repairable. One possible sign is poor shifting but there's lots of other things that can cause this.

sovende

Very glad for the confirmation that the inability to ride “no hands” is NOT the go to test for a bent frame. I have one bike that I find very difficult if not impossible to ride “no hands”. Until now, I’ve been convincing myself that it was due to a bent frame. I will definitely be looking into the other potential culprits in the near future 👍.

delbiker1 

The first thing I would check is the headset.

Andrew R Stewart 

It is possible that more then one issue is at hand (pun) and they cancel each other out. So the bike tracks straight but isn't straight. No handed riding is just one sort of check and not at all specific. Now how the bike handles with no hands can suggest some stuff if the rider knows what to sense. A too tight headset as example, the bike tends to not respond to hip movements at first then react a lot and not come back "straight" easily. A too loose headset won't do much unless it's so loose that the fork is really rocking all over the place, which is easy to check for by doing the clamp the front brake and rocking the bike fore and aft.

Most of the bikes I've owned and made have had me have to slightly lean to the left to track straight. I consider the likelihood of all those bikes all being off in the same direction rather slim. Instead I assume it is me that is not even side to side (leg length, spinal curve, overly dominate side).

I would also consider removing and reinstalling the front wheel "backwards" (if no disk brake) to see if it settles into the fork symmetrically. Andy

vane171

Is the bent frame problem because it is no longer safe to ride? Because if it rides straight with hands off, it 'works as it should' and 'what more can one want'? You won't end up with un-ridable bike if you bring it home. But I surmise it is the safety issue.

I think OP doesn't want to use some measuring so as not to offend the seller by being too suspicious, to keep the bike inspection meeting amicable so to speak. Can always say, he is checking the bike for fitting, it could pass if the seller is not too knowledgeable when it comes to bikes.

I would look at overall setting of the seller's place, if it raises or allays suspicions. Just general advice for any secondhand buying. The bike's paint shouldn't look newish (I assume bent frame might show some signs in the original paint or the newish re-painting might indicate there was a trouble with the frame. New paint finish is always suspicious.

drlogik 

+1 riding with no hands is not a reliable way. Road crown alone can give a wrong impression. If that is your only viable way then find the flattest piece of pavement, a playground might be a good option. The down and dirty home-brew way is to "string" the bike and take measurements. If the seller gets miffed at you stringing the bike, maybe yoiu shouldn't be buying that bike. If they have nothing to hide they should not object.


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veganbikes

If a seller has issues checking the frame for not being bent, then that is not a seller I want to deal with. If they are trying to hide something, why would I want to buy that bike from them. A seller should be upfront and honest about the bike or you shouldn't buy it.

dglevy

Many thanks to the experienced many who kindly took the time to give feedback. My buddy bought the bike without even riding it because the bike had no brake pads and the tires were flat! Hopefully the seller was not lying about having never crashed it. We shall see. For the benefit of those who took an interest in the question, I will post an update once he has ridden it (with brake pads, that is...)

veganbikes

That was a bad idea hope your friend didn't get ripped off it sounds like that is quite possible. A bike without brake pads and flat tires sounds like a bike that needs a lot of work and only is worth it if it is a high end bike that is really really really really cheap. People will do what they do though.

Geepig

I used to ride no hands a lot. I mean the handlebars were there to hold the brakes, or something to pull on for really steep hills - that kind of thing.

You can tell a lot by riding no hands, but it is much simpler and quicker to learn to use a piece of string and how to examine a bike than learning what your bike is doing no handed. Bent frames tend to lean, because you need to shift your position to compensate. Loose or stiff fork bearings should be felt before getting on the bike, as well as wheel alignment in the forks and stays. My folders are *****y no handed as their forks are relatively straight, and will snap to the side with little warning unless the surface is really smooth.

Litespud

do the string thing. Measurement is minimal, so it’s really quick. Tie the string to the rear dropout on one side, loop it around the head tube and tie it off taut to the other dropout. Compare the distance between the string and the seat tube on both sides (this is the measuring part). If the string is the same distance on each side, you’re good. If they differ by more than 1-2 mm (I’m using this as the limit of resolution of a quick&dirty measurement), there’s something up. You could also bring a sharpie and mark the string at a specific point wrt the frame on each side, and also at the midpoint on the head tube. Remove the string, bend it in two at the head tube mark, and the other two marks should line up. Again, more than a few mm out and there’s a possible problem. This might sound like a faff, but it’s basic due diligence when buying a used bike.

vane171

That is one valid interpretation, what I had in mind is that the buyer doesn't want to make the seller look like a crook, showing him that he is suspicious of him by taking measurements. There are people like that who want to be nice to others. Not the way to do business but here you are.

veganbikes

I don't think the seller would need to worry about being a crook if they sell the bike honestly and I think the buyer shouldn't feel the need to just hand someone money without checking it over. You gotta kick the tires and stuff make sure you are getting the right stuff.

Bosco13

Never would work for me. I have a crooked spine and when I think I'm standing equally on both feet, i have 70 pounds is on my left foot and 90 on my right foot. I have to adjust for weight imbalance when riding with no hands.

mrrabbit 

Riding without hand will tell you if one of the following is off:

1. Frame / fork alignment.
2. Wheel dish.

Which one? Requires further inspection.

=8-|

Bosco13

Based on my response you need to add least one more item.

3. Crooked, out of balance rider.

Troul 

better to determine it by the psi on the right side of the rear's tire looking at it from the left chain stay with a L.E.D. light.