randyjawa 

Perhaps I am opening a can of worms here but here goes.

In the bicycle appraisal forum I see lots and lots of value questions. Usually, we do not answer the question, but do chime in other ways - some helpful and some not so much. In my case, I will attempt to appraise and help the OP understand things that impact value (size, condition, location, etc)

I know it is difficult to determine value of a vintage bicycle (believe me, I know). With that in mind, when I answer a value related question these days I offer two prices. How much I would accept if I were selling the bike and what I would pay if buying the bike.

Does anyone else feel frustrated when no one actually offers his or her opinion regarding value when that is the only question asked?

thumpism 

Seems pointless not to offer a range, at least. Bicycle X might be worth the, say, $300 someone is asking for it but it might not be worth that to me, having no space and even less time for it. Good of you to let them know, especially the bid/ask range.

Moe Zhoost

Personally I try not to pay when selling a bike. Don't want to set a precedent.

To respond to your comment: A lot of responders may not trust their opinions of worth and so may not went to give a straight answer. Others who may give straight answers maybe should not trust their opinions so readily. If I gave a number for what I would accept when selling, I'd think that it would be on the low side of the market and that would be just enough for me to break even and also to avoid haggling. If I gave a price that I would be willing to pay, it would probably be higher than I actually would pay. It's easy to spend imaginary money, but forking out hard cash requires a bit more consideration.

Perhaps ebay selling price history is a better reference than we are.

bikemig 

I think people offer values when they have something to contribute. Sometimes they don't have a handle on value but have other advice to offer. I think the system works as well as can be expected given that markets for used bikes are thin (there is a lot of guesswork involved) and very location dependent. Plus prospective buyers are getting an extroardinary deal in terms of what they have paid for the advice they receive.

dweenk

The first answer to a "what is it worth" question is - (where are you located?) and (have you looked at Craigslist prices locally?). Then there are the condition questions and accurate description questions.

nlerner

I really don’t understand why anyone would ask strangers on the internet about the value of anything. That advice is worth what you pay for it. Completed sales data on eBay is far more valuable. Plus I thought that sub forum was for flea market and thrift store flippers.

Drillium Dude 

A bike - just like anything else - is worth whatever a person will pay you for it (or whatever amount you will pay another person) at that given point in time. It's really that simple. Every other consideration you can think of gets you to the buy/not buy teetering point, but in the end, the answer really is simple.

DD

bargainguy

What the OP is really talking about is wholesale vs. retail.

What would I like to pay for any given bike? Wholesale.

What would I like to sell any given bike for? Retail.

In everyday life, the spread between the two is where profit is made.

Keep in mind that with any bike, sometimes lots of work needs to be done to raise a bike from wholesale to retail, as most used bikes don't come in ready-to-sell condition.

When I give values, I like to give a range for the bike in as-is condition and in fully refurb'd condition. Wholesale/retail. Retail price is the more important one.

francophile 

I only pop over to the WIW forum every-so-often and try to give my personal opinion on different items, usually giving links to comparisons, recent sale info I looked up on eBay, or more info about the make/model/builder, and almost always my opinion whether I think it's "worth it" or if I'd pay that much.

Occasionally I also ask the value of something, because there are some things which truly have no real comparison or easily-accessible data. Sometimes, nobody is willing or able to give much input at all. Case in point, a bunch of Mavic stuff I'm considering offloading to another BF'er in need, a post which only saw one person offering their valuation IIRC.

But there are reasons I don't go over there more than a week or three out of the year. It gets frustrating with two things happening: (1) The return 'serial re-sellers' who repeatedly come asking the value of something, only to see it pop up elsewhere for 3x, 4x or more and (2) People who literally just sign up to the forum to ask about one bike, then never come back again. Both, I find, are take-only propositions and I personally come to BF C&V section for the give-take aspect. I come here to share one of my passions first and foremost, secondarily to buy and sell (and sometimes give away) stuff that helps me and other cyclists continue their personal pursuits.

To the drama you're speaking of, that all started when one of our serial re-seller types who rarely (if ever) posts anything of value recently popped in with another faked bike they bought to ask value. They caught some guff after suggesting they wouldn't sell it, only to have it outed by a mod they're listing that same $100-150 bike on eBay as a 'tribute bike' for almost $400. But I guess "it is what it is".

Several years ago, I had a time-capsule Cinelli and a Masi I acquired and wanted to valuate. Forum members who chimed in came about 20-30% under what they actually sold for, calling around $2k-3k on individual bikes. I listed them here on BF in the ballpark of what was recommended in the WIW forum, but local pickup only so I wouldn't need to break down and ship. Professional appraisal told me not to touch anything, I listened. Anyway, end sale at the big auction site for both combined was in the mid-$6k range, and I'd listed here on BF about 25% less than what I actually got. I walked away with just over 4k after settling with the broker managing the sale, shipping, insurance, etc.

I think you take what you can get on the internet, pricing is so subjective: Personal interest, your local market, etc. I probably have a few hunks of gold in my pile of parts I'm totally unaware of today - it happens, and I think many folks coming to the WIW forum are hoping they found that lucky score. I generally trust y'alls opinion and appreciate those who give their educated thoughts. I can usually sniff out BS, and there's always eBay 'sold' listings (in Advanced search) if you're in doubt.

Drillium Dude 

+ a bazillion

DD

jamesdak 

Yep, I find it hard to chime in with actual values myself. For one I'll normally let something go too cheap just to move it on to another rider. On the flip side, I've been known to pay to much for a bike I want to try out.

In years past I usually "flipped" a couple of lower end bikes each year. Never for profit but just for the fun with getting a neglected bike sorted out and back on the road. So here again not a lot of experience with what I think many would say is a "proper" value.

Heck I currently am trying to get my collection down to around 20 bikes so listing a lot of stuff locally. When I start figuring how much I put into many of them it makes it even harder to figure an accurate price where I can just break even.

Anyway, probably rambling. Sometimes I'll give an actual value if it's similar to one I've sold or bought based on the value of my transaction.

randyjawa 

Now that is a good one. Thanks for the heads up on the error.

randyjawa 

Guys and Gals, I started MY "TEN SPEEDS" to help people better evaluate their hopeful purchases on Ebay or any place, for that matter. As nearly as I can tell, a lot of newbies don't (back then and now) really do not have a clue as to a vintage bike's value nor do they understand that once the bike arrives, the costs do not end right away. For example, I offered an Asian made Raleigh Record frame/fork set for auction, on Ebay, with a starting price of one dollar. Just the frame and fork sold for just over $300.00 US plus shipping...


My biggest point is that if someone asks a specific question, I do my best to answer it in a manner that I would approach the situation for myself, one again offering side information that should help newbies develop an understanding of a given bike's value. Otherwise, I move on to the next thread.

jamesdak 

So for fun I should open what's the value post for all the bikes I have up locally for sale? See what everyone thinks, LOL!

One funny trend I'm noticing is that the one's I've spent a lot on and hence ask a lot (by my standard) seem to garner the most attention. Don't know if that's due to people wanting more expensive bikes, the quality of the pics, or what???

I do know there have been several times I've responded with actual comparables off Ebay and such only to see the poster keep reaching for those high numbers.

Heck the Calfee Lemond frame post I started is in that boat. Guy is asking a way too high price even for this Lemond nut to consider. I showed him a couple of others that have sold that were the same "tribute" bike not the actual team bikes. He keeps referencing the team bikes as his source for pricing. Just not reality in my book.

27inch

When asking what any bike is worth always has two answers.
What you would be willing to pay for it, and what you would you would sell it for if it were yours.

SurferRosa

No. I offer what I know ... which may help in determining value. We usually know very little about the seller's market and marketing skills.

homelessjoe

To many factors involved.....Take a nice bike that sells consistently sells on e bay for 1000 dollars.........If you live in Malibu and its the middle of May your might be able to get $1650.00.....but ...if you live two hours outside of Fargo and its the middle of winter you wont be able to give it away if you get down on your knees............and condition means so much.....people are willing to pay way more if it is show room new.......an old rare bike in mint uncirculated condition to the right collector could go sky high......or little extras no one notices......like hutch pedals ...delta brakes...........or a 450 dollar Brooks saddle on a free spirit....... mountain bikes are worth way more where there are mountains..........but....the most important thing is the seller.........a friend of mine gets so much money for his bikes it is just short of criminal......how he gets absolute top dollar plus 40 percent is beyond my limited mental capacity..

merziac

Far too subjective, I gladly pay too much when I find something I want, many here would think me crazy for many of my acquisitions.

I don't have the time left to wait for deals that may never come, very simply "a bird in the hand".

I often have something to say about pricing and value but also rarely venture a number as don't consider myself a seller or expert on pricing.

kross57

I will only offer specifics on prices if I have experience with the bike, and with the caveat that these prices are super local in nature, unless you are willing to ship.

On the "ask" side, I look for info on any bike I am not familiar with. Sometimes I get great little tips on a particular bike.

As far as what people say a bike is worth compared to what it actually sells for, you can't expect these valuations to be anywhere near accurate. Too many variables.

Chuck M 

One man's trash is another man's treasure is enough of a variable I would think to make it hard to value a C&V bike. Factor in pandemic pricing, terrible pictures, location and the "these sell for $x.xx on ebay" and it becomes more muddled. Bless those that offer honest and helpful opinions. But as mentioned already in this thread, when you ask for opinions online, you get what you pay for.

And it is probably for the best that only a few offer opinions on value. People argue over which way to wrap bar tape, which way QR skewers go and if you can lube a chain with WD-40.

iab

What's it worth? is possibly the dumbest question there is. Put a price on it. If it doesn't sell, lower the price. If it sells in a day, you may have been able to wring a couple more scheckls out of it, but that would just involve more of your time, ain't worth it.

Should I pay $XXX for it? is possibly the second dumbest question there is. It's your money, you should know what you can and cannot afford.

Why the **** would a stranger's opinion matter in this at all? is the best question.

bark_eater 

I think the value of everyone's time is the variable that offers the biggest variations of profit and loss. I've sold a few bikes for 400% profits, but have not been able to pay myself more than todays minimum wage, and that's with aggressive time management. That's why eBay bike prices make sense for buyers, if for what ever reason you want X bike and don't want to spend your time tracking one down. Most of the valuation advise that can be given over the internet will just be suggesting a price point.. IE its a bike that will get you from point A to point B as is $100-200, +/- $100 for condition. Or Bike with Brifters $300-$400, +/-$100 for condition. Lugged Touring bike See Bike with Brifters. All these values are then adjusted for supply and demand -30-50% for being a 3 hour drive from any where, +30-50% for being across the street from a metro station, +50-100% if there's a pandemic bike boom. I've got a lot of bikes that I acquired for free to $30 that I if I find the time to pay my self todays minimum wage, I may be able to put them in the $100-200 category. The trap I've set for my self is fixing up bikes for my self, as its easy to throw $$$ at a $75 project bike, that is functionally equivalent to a $1000+ steel frame bike from Surly or Soma, but will never make it out of the low end of "Category 1"
I'll be right next to the guy selling his tricked out mid '80 Schwinn "Steel is real gravel grinder" with my "Finely fettled century ready randoneus vintage conversion" .

jamesdak 

Yep, this is me. To me sometimes the cost of a new bike is the "price of admission" to get something I want to see or try. So I grab it not really caring what a "true market value" may be.

jon c. 

If the market were all old steel bicycles, it would be easier. Even then it would be highly dependent on supply in a given area. But with anything above the bottom level, each item is totally unique. The same models aren't sold all that often and even that comparison can't be made due to varying condition. And buyers are highly individual as well in what they are seeking.

So any "estimate" really has to be thought of in terms +/- 50%. Sometimes even exceeding that. That wide a range makes people uncomfortable. It's human nature to want greater specificity. But if that is accepted as the agreed reality, I think the appraisal form is valuable for buyers. And to an extent for clueless sellers. Because what most people want is not to be way wrong. They're not purchasing bicycles frequently so they don't need to employ the standards of the collector. If the BF C & V valuation is in the range of $200, there's absolutely nothing wrong with paying $300 if you like the bike. You're really not "overpaying". But the market is crazy enough that someone is going to be asking $800 for the same bike. That's the kind of mistake people want to avoid.

If people approach the forum understanding that this is the nature of the game, then the forum does serve a valuable function.

billytwosheds 

The WIW forum is an interesting beast, indeed.

Lots of helpful information, links, etc about rare bikes. Sometimes this leads to a sale outside the FS subforum (whoops!) and other times the inquiring party becomes so interested in the bike that they no longer wish to sell it.

Part of the issue is that most knowledgeable forum members can estimate a bike's value in parts alone, and forget the time and resources it took to gain that ability. This skews the valuations.

Offering a range is fair, doesn't take much time, and isn't obligatory for the more curmudgeony folx around here.

But yes, the sound of crickets can often be heard when no BF member is ready to chime in.