Awesomeguy

I tried a gravel bike and it seems less upright than endurance bikes, is it always the case?

tomato coupe

No.

Elvo

No.

Wildwood 

Nothing is always the case. with bicycles & geometry.

And everyone's "comfortable" is different. muchly, but not always.

Lugged steel, turn of the Century (actually just after), Fast Road Endurance bike, 28mm tires max.

Slight headtube extension, slightly sloping TT doesn't show in pic (on a hill) but allows for tall headtube. I like to stretch out on endurance type = longer, hillier rides. Compact double crank.

shelbyfv

No +4

Awesomeguy

Which gravel bikes have more relaxed geometry?

chaadster

There are so many, and I don’t think that line of inquiry is going to get you to the comfort issue, which you referred to in the thread title and alluded to with the question about being upright in the OP.

“Relaxed geometry” usually refers in major part to head tube angle, but to other elements like chainstay length as well. Of course comfort cannot be divorced from geometry, the question about being upright suggests the greater issue is setup, specifically bar height and bar reach, and also specific elements of geometry, specifically frame stack and frame reach, which talking about “relaxed geometry” doesn’t really a count for.

Have you ridden a bike you think felt comfortable? Which was it, and in which size?

veganbikes

Tell us what you are looking for in a bike? What kind of riding are you looking to d? What is your actual real budget ($400 and it has to be lightweight fast and have a billion things on it, isn't real)? Things like that will help us give you better advice. Depending on the bike you might be more comfortable or less comfortable. A big part of that is geometry and some is what the frame is made of and how it is constructed and size of tires will help as well.

Some bikes are upright some are not. More race oriented bikes are going to be less upright because people who race want more aerodynamics and a more aggressive position to put down the speed and win.

Rolla

"Comfort" and "upright" are relative and subjective terms. Bar, stem, and steerer tube often have as much to do with either as geometry does. IME, a degree of steepness or slackness is often undetectable, but a cm of stem length or handlebar height or reach can make all the difference in the world.

Awesomeguy

I had tried Fuji jari (gravel) and Fuji sportif (endurance) the gravel bike was more bent over , and endurance was more upright and I preferred the comfort of it, I believe the sportif was a size large and so was jari I believe ..
But I like the jari gearing and longer wheel base thus less toe overlap

Random11

I'm interested in this question too, but I thought the opposite was true. My only bike is a Specialized Diverge (gravel) and was thinking of getting an endurance bike as a second bike. My Diverge seems so comfortable to me that I was wondering if I'd be less comfortable with a less-upright endurance bike. Do I have this backwards? One bike I was looking at was a Cervelo Caledonia, but I think it is less upright than the Diverge. (I haven't actually ridden a Celedonia, because no shops near me have one.) For another example, isn't a Roubaix less upright than a Diverge?

chaadster

Perfect. Looking at the geo charts, you can see the Jari is lower and longer in the front:Jari - 592 stack / 382 reach

Sportif - 601 s / 376 r

You can take those Sportif measurements, then, and look for gravel bikes which are close to the same numbers.

Now we don’t know how the bikes were set up, so those are variables, but if you rode showroom bikes, it’s fair to assume that they were stock parts and at max height (the bars), so if you find another new bike with a wee bit more stack, you’ll be able to adjust down if needed.

As far as toe overlap, I don’t think you’ll have to worry about that with a large size frame. I mean, the Sportif did not have toe overlap, did it? The geo doesn’t suggest it would.

Awesomeguy

yes

chaadster

Surprising. Did it have fenders? If overlap is a concern, maybe there’s an online calculator you can use to see which geometries produce that...though I suppose it also dep3nds on shoe size.

Maybe bikecad.ca has it in the version...

blakcloud

Last night I was entertaining a Trek Checkpoint as a gravel bike to compliment my Trek Domane endurance bike. When comparing the geometries of 54cm there was a significant difference in geometries. For example the head tube on the Checkpoint is 3.4 cm smaller than the Domane. That certainly is going to change my saddle to bar drop. In my particular example the reach is more and the stack is less.

I am not from the school of thought that both bikes should be the same because each bike serves a different purpose. The stack and reach are not the same for my Winter flat bar road bike, Rivendell Country bike, Brompton folding bike and my Trek Domane. It is ludicrous to think they should be.

Back to your original assumption that gravel bikes are getting lower and longer than endurance bikes and I would some are but others aren't. Some are making their bikes more like mountain bikes ever yesteryear. Slack head angles and short stems, wide flare bars. Lots of disagreement of what exactly a gravel bike is doesn't help. Keep looking until you find something that works for you. The beauty is there is so much to choose from, though stock maybe limited.

In the end for me, I couldn't see how much more a Checkpoint would do for me that my Domane couldn't do with bigger tires. I talked myself out of a new gravel bike.

Sy Reene

Not uncommon at all for gravel bike to have less upright (if that's how perhaps one defines 'endurance' fit) geometry than endurance. Another example is Cervelo's Caledonia (arguably their current 'endurance' model) vs. the Aspero (their racing gravel bike). I guess in theory, gravel bikes come in racing vs endurance geometries, just like their road counterparts.

EDIT: On further reflection and looking, the stock configuration on complete bikes from Cervelo, gives the Caledonia a 10mm longer stem than they provide on the Aspero. I believe, though I'm not fitting expert, that basically these 2 bikes would feel about the same for a given frame size.

icemilkcoffee 

Notice that the standover height is quite different between the two models. For example, with the Aspero I would ride a 54cm with my 780 inseam. Whereas on the Caledonia I would have to move down to the 51 size. You would think the gravel bike, with the higher bottom bracket and fatter tires, would have higher standover for a fiven frame size, but somehow that is not the case here.

shelbyfv

Nobody sizes a bike by standover anymore and haven't since sloping top tubes became common. Size by the top tube length,stack and reach.

icemilkcoffee 

Why wouldn't you pay attention to standover height? The stack and reach is important, but those are things you can actually compensate for with different stems. The seat height, seat setback, stem length, stem rise, etc, can all be adjusted after the fact. The standover cannot be adjust in any way and must be correct from the get go.

mstateglfr 

Sloping top tubes largely made standover height a non-issue. That isnt a rule, just a trend, so examples can be cited that show standover does matter..