DaveSSS 

The news is out on the rival axs 12 speed group. The cassettes require the xdr freehub body, just as I predicted. The brake hoods are smaller because there is no bite point adjustment, but there is brake lever reach adjustment. I add up $1158 for a complete group with a BB. I'm no fan of the 13T difference at the crank, so I use grx cranks for more range with my axs drivetrains.

https://www.biketiresdirect.com/search?kw2=rival

https://cyclingtips.com/2021/04/sram-rival-axs-review/
https://www.sram.com/en/sram/road/series/rival-etap-axs

Quiglesnbits

hopefully this moves Di2 downmarket into 105 as well.

msu2001la

12 speed, 1x friendly gearing options, disc only, electronic, integrated power meter... this seems to be the future.
I'm somewhat disappointed by the pricing. From the (excellent) Cyclingtips article:

• Rival AXS 2x with power meter: US$1,639 / AU$2,454 / £1,516 / €1,688
• Rival AXS 2x without power meter: US$1,420 / AU$2,124 / £1,314 / €1,463
• Rival AXS 1x with power meter: US$1,409 / AU$2,110 / £1,304 / €1,453
• Rival AXS 1x without power meter: US$1,190 / AU$1,780 / £1,102 / €1,228

It's also somewhat disappointing that Rival AXS is a full 900g heavier than Shimano's 105 mechanical disc, but I get that there's an extra gear and motors. I guess if you're a weight weenie, mechanical is still way more attractive in general.

• Rival AXS 2x with chain, cassette, rotors, crankset: 3,155g
• Force AXS 2x with chain, cassette, rotors, crankset: 2,964g
• Red AXS 2x with chain, cassette, rotors, crankset: 2,478g

All that said, I like this direction for groupsets and hope Shimano also follows suit with 12sp and an electronic 105 groupset. The built-in power meters are a nice bonus.

Koyote

It's two pounds heavier than 105 mechanical? Yikes.

I'd just buy Ultegra Di2. I don't need a twelfth gear that badly.

Leinster

2lbs heavier, and twice the price, of mechanical 105.

I'd just buy 105 mechanical, I don't need a 12th gear, or electronic shifting, that badly. And if I had that money for a Group, I'd probably go with Chorus 12, because I'm a Campag snob at heart.

I'm sure 105 Di2/12 is already in the works anyway, and it'll be interesting to see the weight/price difference when it comes about.

Koyote

I think the weights demonstrate one of the advantages of Di2 vs SRAM's approach: SRAM's derailleurs each need their own batteries and wireless receivers, and so they necessarily weigh more and cost more.

sarhog

I’m glad to see the tech moving downstream. I have a Rival 1x12 drivetrain on my Salsa Cutthroat now (albeit not electronic).

DaveSSS 

I switched from Chorus 12 to Force 12 last summer and saw absolutely no weight gain on the bike. I kept my Chorus 12 crank on the bike. The cycling tips comparison with 105 is way off. I found a site listing 105 disc with a weight of 2478, which is 637 grams less than Rival, but the 105 group is not 12 speed and of course, not electronic. Comparing a smaller cassette on the 105 group to the largest and heaviest Rival cassette add about 56 grams to the Rival group weight. I also switched to disc brake frames late last year. The rotors alone add 240 grams and the disc wheelset of the same model from Campy/Fulcrum are 100 grams heavier.

I always wonder if those who worry so much about a pound of weight are competing and keep their body weight to a bare minimum. After the winter, I've always got 4-5 pounds to lose to get down to 133-134.

https://ccache.cc/blogs/newsroom/201...ght-comparison

https://cyclingtips.com/2021/04/sram-rival-axs-review/

Leinster

Per the Cyclingtips article, the Rival FD is 180g. An Ultegra Di2 FD apparently weighs 132g, so about 1.7 oz difference there. Having separate batteries for each derailleur is not where the big weight difference is.

eduskator

DI2 should get 12sp way before 105 becomes electronic.

DaveSSS 

Axs and Di2 both carry the same 50 grams of battery. Being entirely wireless apparently adds weight, unless the Sram servo motors are also heavier. The Red RD weighs 77 grams more than DA Di2 and the FD weighs 38 grams more. I don't see much difference in the brake/shift levers.

ericcox

I think it was a Bike Radar comparison of Force AXS and Ultegra Di2 write up that noted that Shimano's quoted weights do not include wires or the dFly sending unit. Once you include those, Ultegra is still a little lighter than Force (and Rival), but the difference is not much once you include the full system weight.

Rodrigo Kenobi

If we're comparing to Shimano 105, the crankset is quite a bit heavier. 861g for the Force AXS and 713 for the Shimano 105. The lack of hollow alloy construction being the most likely culprit, I think. Just a curiosity, that shouldn't matter more than a multitude of other factors.

I'm just exited for the future of a possible 105 Di2. We'll probably have to wait for the new tech in the next generations of Dura-Ace and Ultegra Di2 to arrive first, of course. Cool stuff all around.