Search
Notices
General Cycling Discussion Have a cycling related question or comment that doesn't fit in one of the other specialty forums? Drop on in and post in here! When possible, please select the forum above that most fits your post!

N+/-(a number)

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 09-04-18, 09:45 AM
  #1  
Jon T
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: West Orange County, CA
Posts: 1,112

Bikes: '84 Peugeot PH10LE

Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 397 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 55 Times in 39 Posts
N+/-(a number)

Please pardon my ignorance but what does N+/- (a number) mean? I've wracked my pea-brain trying to figure it out.
Thanks
Jon

Last edited by Jon T; 09-05-18 at 12:17 PM.
Jon T is offline  
Old 09-04-18, 09:56 AM
  #2  
kuroba
Full Member
 
kuroba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Chile
Posts: 498
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 124 Post(s)
Liked 22 Times in 13 Posts
Rule #12
kuroba is offline  
Old 09-04-18, 09:58 AM
  #3  
zze86
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 663
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 238 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
N = the number of bikes currently in your stable
+x = adding to the stable by x number of bikes
-x = subtracting from the stable by x number of bikes

The N+1 phrase is generally used when someone is unsure whether to keep a bike or replace it with another and has the connotation that having one more (or more variety) is better.
zze86 is offline  
Old 09-04-18, 10:15 AM
  #4  
Milton Keynes
Senior Member
 
Milton Keynes's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 3,947

Bikes: Trek 1100 road bike, Roadmaster gravel/commuter/beater mountain bike

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2281 Post(s)
Liked 1,710 Times in 936 Posts
N+1 until D-1.
Milton Keynes is offline  
Likes For Milton Keynes:
Old 09-04-18, 10:22 AM
  #5  
Flip Flop Rider
Senior Member
 
Flip Flop Rider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: South Carolina Upstate
Posts: 2,105

Bikes: 2010 Fuji Absolute 3.0 1994 Trek 850

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 762 Post(s)
Liked 555 Times in 322 Posts
don't limit yourself to just one bike!
Flip Flop Rider is offline  
Likes For Flip Flop Rider:
Old 09-04-18, 02:38 PM
  #6  
rumrunn6
Senior Member
 
rumrunn6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: 25 miles northwest of Boston
Posts: 29,549

Bikes: Bottecchia Sprint, GT Timberline 29r, Marin Muirwoods 29er, Trek FX Alpha 7.0

Mentioned: 112 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5224 Post(s)
Liked 3,581 Times in 2,342 Posts
currently planning on replacing two with one, so that would be n-2+1
rumrunn6 is offline  
Old 09-04-18, 02:45 PM
  #7  
Cl904
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 315
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 106 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 36 Times in 23 Posts
Originally Posted by Milton Keynes
N+1 until D-1.
d= number of bikes that causes a divorce.
Cl904 is offline  
Likes For Cl904:
Old 09-04-18, 06:07 PM
  #8  
Ghazmh
Senior Member
 
Ghazmh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: The banks of the River Charles
Posts: 2,029

Bikes: 2022 Salsa Beargrease, 2020 Seven Evergreen, 2019 Honey Allroads Ti, 2018 Seven Redsky XX, 2017 Trek Boon 7, 2014 Trek 520

Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 696 Post(s)
Liked 910 Times in 487 Posts
Originally Posted by Cl904

d= number of bikes that causes a divorce.
i wonder what that number is on average? My wife has slowly come around to accept the completely rational logic behind me needing a 7th bike.
Ghazmh is offline  
Likes For Ghazmh:
Old 09-04-18, 06:16 PM
  #9  
ph0rk
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Southern Appalachians
Posts: 453

Bikes: A hauler, a commuter, and a steamroller.

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
I like s-1 as it captures the universe of possible nasty outcomes beyond a mere divorce.

There is another, third, rarely used equation in this system to be balanced: s+1

Buy s another bike, s increments by one; ergo, s-1 also increments by one.
ph0rk is offline  
Old 09-04-18, 08:04 PM
  #10  
spinnaker
Every day a winding road
 
spinnaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 6,538

Bikes: 2005 Cannondale SR500, 2008 Trek 7.3 FX, Jamis Aurora

Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3394 Post(s)
Liked 63 Times in 46 Posts
Originally Posted by jon t
please pardon my ignorance but does n+/- (a number) mean? I've wracked my pea-brain trying to figure it out.
Thanks
jon
42
spinnaker is offline  
Likes For spinnaker:
Old 09-04-18, 08:12 PM
  #11  
tagaproject6
Senior Member
 
tagaproject6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 8,550

Bikes: Wilier Izoard XP (Record);Cinelli Xperience (Force);Specialized Allez (Rival);Bianchi Via Nirone 7 (Centaur); Colnago AC-R Disc;Colnago V1r Limited Edition;De Rosa King 3 Limited(Force 22);DeRosa Merak(Red):Pinarello Dogma 65.1 Hydro(Di2)

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 551 Post(s)
Liked 277 Times in 145 Posts
Get another bike.
tagaproject6 is offline  
Old 09-04-18, 08:18 PM
  #12  
veganbikes
Clark W. Griswold
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: ,location, location
Posts: 13,502

Bikes: Foundry Chilkoot Ti W/Ultegra Di2, Salsa Timberjack Ti, Cinelli Mash Work RandoCross Fun Time Machine, 1x9 XT Parts Hybrid, Co-Motion Cascadia, Specialized Langster, Phil Wood Apple VeloXS Frame (w/DA 7400), R+M Supercharger2 Rohloff, Habanero Ti 26

Mentioned: 54 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4347 Post(s)
Liked 3,984 Times in 2,661 Posts
N-1 is not a mathematical equation that could exist. It is like saying I am going to douse myself in hydrochloric acid to get some dirt on my face. It doesn't work that way it would just kill you. I can understand replacing one so doing like an n-1+1 because then it is just a zero transaction and that is cool.
veganbikes is offline  
Old 09-05-18, 07:05 AM
  #13  
rumrunn6
Senior Member
 
rumrunn6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: 25 miles northwest of Boston
Posts: 29,549

Bikes: Bottecchia Sprint, GT Timberline 29r, Marin Muirwoods 29er, Trek FX Alpha 7.0

Mentioned: 112 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5224 Post(s)
Liked 3,581 Times in 2,342 Posts
Originally Posted by Ghazmh
i wonder what that number is on average? My wife has slowly come around to accept the completely rational logic behind me needing a 7th bike.
oh she's a keeper! btw my limit was 13 incl. "frames" finally scaled it back to just 3 several years ago
rumrunn6 is offline  
Old 09-05-18, 12:21 PM
  #14  
Jon T
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: West Orange County, CA
Posts: 1,112

Bikes: '84 Peugeot PH10LE

Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 397 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 55 Times in 39 Posts
Thanks all. Got it. I only have one with no plans to add or subtract any. So I guess I have N1 bikes?
Jon
Jon T is offline  
Old 09-05-18, 01:53 PM
  #15  
ThermionicScott 
working on my sandal tan
 
ThermionicScott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: CID
Posts: 22,629

Bikes: 1991 Bianchi Eros, 1964 Armstrong, 1988 Diamondback Ascent, 1988 Bianchi Premio, 1987 Bianchi Sport SX, 1980s Raleigh mixte (hers), All-City Space Horse (hers)

Mentioned: 98 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3871 Post(s)
Liked 2,568 Times in 1,579 Posts
Originally Posted by Jon T
Thanks all. Got it. I only have one with no plans to add or subtract any. So I guess I have N1 bikes?
Jon
You have N bikes.
__________________
Originally Posted by chandltp
There's no such thing as too far.. just lack of time
Originally Posted by noglider
People in this forum are not typical.
RUSA #7498
ThermionicScott is offline  
Old 09-05-18, 02:25 PM
  #16  
Cyclist0108
Occam's Rotor
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,248
Mentioned: 61 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2366 Post(s)
Liked 2,331 Times in 1,164 Posts
Conventionally, the limits on a summation go from i to N.



N+1 denotes the next item in the series.
Cyclist0108 is offline  
Likes For Cyclist0108:
Old 09-05-18, 02:26 PM
  #17  
Cyclist0108
Occam's Rotor
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,248
Mentioned: 61 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2366 Post(s)
Liked 2,331 Times in 1,164 Posts
Originally Posted by ThermionicScott
You have N bikes.
Where N ≥ 3

according to Rule 12
Cyclist0108 is offline  
Old 09-05-18, 02:33 PM
  #18  
livedarklions
Tragically Ignorant
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,613

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM

Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8186 Post(s)
Liked 9,098 Times in 5,054 Posts
Originally Posted by veganbikes
N-1 is not a mathematical equation that could exist. It is like saying I am going to douse myself in hydrochloric acid to get some dirt on my face. It doesn't work that way it would just kill you. I can understand replacing one so doing like an n-1+1 because then it is just a zero transaction and that is cool.

You're wrong-- N-1 is a transient, unstable state that occurs when a person gets rid of 1 bike to make room for the 2 new bikes he/she is getting the next day, a mere waystation on the path to N+1, the only truly stable state.
livedarklions is offline  
Old 09-05-18, 08:30 PM
  #19  
veganbikes
Clark W. Griswold
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: ,location, location
Posts: 13,502

Bikes: Foundry Chilkoot Ti W/Ultegra Di2, Salsa Timberjack Ti, Cinelli Mash Work RandoCross Fun Time Machine, 1x9 XT Parts Hybrid, Co-Motion Cascadia, Specialized Langster, Phil Wood Apple VeloXS Frame (w/DA 7400), R+M Supercharger2 Rohloff, Habanero Ti 26

Mentioned: 54 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4347 Post(s)
Liked 3,984 Times in 2,661 Posts
Originally Posted by livedarklions
You're wrong-- N-1 is a transient, unstable state that occurs when a person gets rid of 1 bike to make room for the 2 new bikes he/she is getting the next day, a mere waystation on the path to N+1, the only truly stable state.
Fair enough. I can dig that idea.
veganbikes is offline  
Old 09-06-18, 01:21 AM
  #20  
Machka 
In Real Life
 
Machka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Down under down under
Posts: 52,152

Bikes: Lots

Mentioned: 141 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3203 Post(s)
Liked 596 Times in 329 Posts
With Rowan and me it's always N+2 ... because we each have to get a bicycle.
Machka is offline  
Likes For Machka:
Old 09-06-18, 08:01 AM
  #21  
rumrunn6
Senior Member
 
rumrunn6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: 25 miles northwest of Boston
Posts: 29,549

Bikes: Bottecchia Sprint, GT Timberline 29r, Marin Muirwoods 29er, Trek FX Alpha 7.0

Mentioned: 112 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5224 Post(s)
Liked 3,581 Times in 2,342 Posts
when I eat an ice cream sandwich, I always have to have more than one
rumrunn6 is offline  
Old 09-06-18, 07:16 PM
  #22  
devianb
Senior Member
 
devianb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Central Illinois
Posts: 869

Bikes: 2008 Dawes Haymaker 20XX Leader LD515 TotoCycling Road Bike

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 27 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 32 Times in 19 Posts
Originally Posted by rumrunn6
when I eat an ice cream sandwich, I always have to have more than one
Copy that, although in my case it is those ice cream drumsticks. My equation is (N+1) ≤ (Sum N+1 Storage space).
devianb is offline  
Old 09-06-18, 07:47 PM
  #23  
Cyclist0108
Occam's Rotor
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,248
Mentioned: 61 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2366 Post(s)
Liked 2,331 Times in 1,164 Posts
This has always puzzled me.

The number of bikes you should own is N+1. To prevent separation from the spouse or whatever, it is S-1.

So,

N+1 = S -1

solve for S:

S = N + 2

I think this means one should buy two more bikes.
Cyclist0108 is offline  
Old 09-06-18, 08:00 PM
  #24  
veganbikes
Clark W. Griswold
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: ,location, location
Posts: 13,502

Bikes: Foundry Chilkoot Ti W/Ultegra Di2, Salsa Timberjack Ti, Cinelli Mash Work RandoCross Fun Time Machine, 1x9 XT Parts Hybrid, Co-Motion Cascadia, Specialized Langster, Phil Wood Apple VeloXS Frame (w/DA 7400), R+M Supercharger2 Rohloff, Habanero Ti 26

Mentioned: 54 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4347 Post(s)
Liked 3,984 Times in 2,661 Posts
Originally Posted by wgscott
This has always puzzled me.

The number of bikes you should own is N+1. To prevent separation from the spouse or whatever, it is S-1.

So,

N+1 = S -1

solve for S:

S = N + 2

I think this means one should buy two more bikes.
One of my neighbors is an account so I feel pretty confident I am a math wiz and these figures check out!
veganbikes is offline  
Old 09-06-18, 11:06 PM
  #25  
jlmonte
Junior Member
 
jlmonte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Central Coast California
Posts: 145

Bikes: Colnago Brain, Master Bi-Titanio, Vitus 979, Specialized Roubaix, Salsa Marrakesh, and a couple of Treks

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 82 Post(s)
Liked 40 Times in 27 Posts
Originally Posted by veganbikes
One of my neighbors is an account so I feel pretty confident I am a math wiz and these figures check out!
If I may add...at work, where my desk chair wore out the carpet, there are Rocket Scientists who all ride recumbents. So, I double checked the math, I too am confident from an orthogonal subspace perspective, it checks out.
jlmonte is offline  


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.