Porschefan

I haven't posted about this before, mostly because it's a little embarrassing to admit to having some troubles with a skill (using clipless pedal systems) where the general consensus seems to be that after a short learning curve, getting unclipped in emergency situations becomes second nature and not a problem. But with the cast on my left wrist coming off next week after the SECOND time of breaking it after not being able to unclip in an "emergency" (perceived, at least) and instinctively putting my hand out to break the fall, I'm going to see if I might get some tips on the best way to proceed. Being stubborn and proud, I'm reluctant to just give up and resign myself to riding flats for the rest of my riding career, but I have to weigh the consequences of breaking this wrist again--NOT a good idea according to the orthopedic surgeon who screwed it back together after the second break.

I'm an older (well, OLD, actually) rider and pretty new to cycling--just a couple of years limited experience. I started with a mountain bike and flat pedals. When I got into road biking, mainly as fun hobby and a fitness activity to complement hiking and working out, I rode on flat pedals most of the time. I found some Speedplay Light Action pedals on the local Craigslist at some point, and finally installed them about a year ago. I had a couple of minor mishaps at first, but generally I was able to manage "OK" and thought I was over the hump. Then, not too long after that, I had the first incident. I was biking to the gym and crossing an intersection when I saw an SUV making a right turn and saw that the driver did NOT see me. For a more skilled rider, it probably would have been no problem--just a quick stop and unclip maneuver. But I wasn't able to get out of the pedals quickly enough and fell, breaking the wrist--although not too badly. So I was off the bike for about 2-3 months after that. When I got back in the saddle I spent quite a bit of time riding around the neighborhood and practiced clipping in and out to a point where I thought I really had it down pretty well. I also bought some brand new cleats for the Speedplay pedals and tweaked them so they worked very well. So I was feeling pretty good about it all, until, again on a trip to the gym (this time returning home), I was approaching an intersection where I had the "WALK" light and the right of way. I was going pretty slow and being uber-cautious, as always at intersections, where I will normally just stop and wait if there is any doubt about making it across safely. This time there was a car waiting to make a right turn (legal on a red light here) and I noticed that, again, this driver did NOT see me coming to the intersection and was preparing to turn right. Panic, fall, arm out--smash. This time wrist broken more seriously and requiring surgery to put it back together.

So, I obviously don't have this skill down and I'm trying to come up with a strategy to develop it before doing something I'll really regret. I haven't talked to my bike coach yet, but will in the next couple of days and I'll see if anyone here comes up with some constructive advice also. I'm thinking that I'll put flat pedals on the bike to start with and then work on bike handling skills, particularly trying to get to a point where I can stably do trackstands--which seems like a basic skill that would help in this situation? Then...I dunno, practice, practice, practice--maybe somewhere where I can fall "safely"??? Another thought I had was maybe switching to something easier--but one of the reasons I got the Speedplays was they have the "Light Action" and lots of float.

Another thing, related, is the problem of reflexively putting out my hand if/when there is an impending fall--whether or not related to clipping out. I've read and been told that it's good practice to never do this due to the wrist-breaking problem AND getting one's arm run over in a collision. "Keep your hands on the bars" is what I've heard. That, of course, heightens the risk of breaking a collarbone, and is another "easier said than done" kind of thing.

I'm not particularly interested in getting into some the heated discussions about clipless vs. flat pedals. I'd much prefer to use the clipless pedals as I do like the way they function MOST of the time. And I've had some uncomfortable experiences on flats with my feet just bouncing off the pedals entirely when hitting a bump at speed. So I'm mainly looking for approaches to getting back to clipless SAFELY.

TIA.

STP

memebag

No help here. I tried using clipless pedals for a couple of years and they always terrified me. I went back to flat pedals and everything improved. Good luck.

nitewing117

When I first got into riding motorcycles, a class I took and nearly all sources recommended that I practice panic stops and overall bike handling in empty parking lots. I made it a regular habit to practice that here and there and it really helped me gain confidence in my brakes, tires, and brake lever feedback.

Fast-forward to last year when I decided to get into cycling and bought my first road bike (ever) with clipless pedals, I went and practiced the same things that I would have done on the motorcycle.

I'm not sure what sort of practice you've done with your pedals, but practicing panic stops helped me make unclipping second nature. It's easy to practice unclipping when you're coasting up to lights or stop signs, but it really matters most when you're under an immense amount of pressure. The same goes for falling - I'm sure there are drills you could do that can help you remember to tuck and keep your hands on the bars (for me, it came from doing martial arts for years when I was a kid).

fietsbob

which pedals, exactly? the frogs or roadie types ? what does the manual say?

TheManShow

Clipless peddles have moving parts, and moving part collect dirt & debries. Air in can like you use to blow out computer keyboard helps blow out dirt, etc.

I use a Look Delta Peddle, and use Bee Wax on the back surface of the cleat that is what comes free when you kick out.

Call me anal but every time I come home I take an old rag get the gunk out of the peddles, use a drop of white lightnig on the moving parts, than dry the excess with a q-tip or rag.

SkepticalOne

I recently spent some time shopping for my first set of clipless. I have been absolutely delighted by a newer line of SPDs called Click'r:

SHIMANO CLICK'R - TECHNOLOGIES - CYCLING FOOTWEAR AND PEDALS - LIFESTYLE GEAR - SHIMANO

They barely require any effort to engage and very little lateral effort to disengage. I also love that they have flat pedals on one side so I can ride to the park wearing sandals. I strongly recommend them.

andr0id

Sorry about your falls.

I think part of your problem is that you are not driving your bike like a car. You should look up vehicular cycling and learn the concepts.

I say this based on this description.
First, the flashing WALK light is NOT for you* and you should not be crossing in a crosswalk. You should either be in the lane or on an improved shoulder.

Secondly, you NEVER should put yourself on the right side of a driver in the right lane unless all the traffic is stopped. The "right hook" is so common that is has the name "right hook." You should have ridden behind that vehicle and then you would have made it safely through the intersection with no stopping required at all.

You could have probably avoided the first fall too by anticipating and avoiding rather than stopping.

* other than as a indicator that the red light is getting stale.

Porschefan

Good points. Yes, practice has been mostly without any real pressure and I (obviously) haven't bridged the gap between thinking and just reacting. Now, to figure out a way to simulate panic stops and clip-outs without causing further damage. Maybe first work on panic stops with flats, emphasizing keeping control of the bike throughout? Another idea: put some clipless pedals on the mountain bike and go practice on nice soft grass somewhere?

Never did any martial arts, but that's not a bad idea. Maybe take a few classes and learn how to tuck and roll. I'm pretty sure that would have helped immensely since the falls were otherwise pretty minor. Thanks Sensei!

"Light Action" Speedplays are road pedals. I do have a set of Frog pedals also, but not mounted on any bike. I guess I could consider putting the Frogs (or even the Light Action roadies) on the mountain bike and practicing panic stops somewhere safe.

Don't know what manual you are referring to? I did follow the instructions for mounting and torquing the new cleats supplied by Speedplay and I even called the US Speedplay rep twice and got advice on how to get the two sides set to equal tension. Also cleaned the pedals and lubed cleats and pedals with Speedplays dry lube concoction. The Light Action Speedplay also have maximum float--no adjustment as in their other more advanced road pedals such as the X1's.

Per above, brand-new, adjusted and lubed cleats and a clean pedal.

Thanks for this recommendation. I'm assuming that you got both "Clik'R" pedals AND shoes/cleats?

I'm aware of the "Clik'R" pedals and have been considering them for another bike (touring/all around). You're the first person that I've heard with a real-world personal recommendation. That said, I've been told that ANY Shimano SPD shoe using the "multi-release" cleats (SH 56, as opposed to SH 51's) will provide as easy a release as the Clik'R. I actually have wanted some SPD shoes/pedals for another bike and haven't pulled the trigger while waiting to see if the Clik'R or normal SPD's with SH 56 cleats would best. It might be a great idea to get some of these and compare them to the the Speedplays. If anyone has experience between the Shimano SPD's with SH 56 cleats and the new "Clik'R" pedals AND cleats, that would be helpful info.

Thanks! I've had enough, that's for sure.

Excellent points. I'm sure a better bike handler would have NO problem avoiding these situations. Thinking back, if I were able and confident with a "track stand" and slow-speed maneuvering, I would have had room to just turn and pedal away. Ditto for not crossing at pedestrian crosswalks. I've just been cautious about riding on the road due to inexperience. The route to the gym has a MUP that I (and a lot of cyclists) use and it terminates at the pedestrian crosswalk at each intersection.

FWIW, and not making an excuse, all traffic WAS stopped, including the driver in the right-turn lane. It's just that he was looking left and preparing (I thought) to make a right turn on the red light (legal here).

Thanks to all for contributing to the discussion so far. I'm starting feel like I have a plan.

STP

doug59

These look pretty cool. Thanks for the info.

doug59

To the OP. I'm new to clipless pedals as well. I've have a couple of falls when stopping at intersections as well (been using them almost 1 1/2 months). I've ridden around my neighborhood and just unclipped and clipped...pretending I'm at a stop sign. Someone here suggested "PedalDabs" which I've purchased on Amazon. They work pretty well. I use them for short rides or when riding with my wife because it's usually a much slower and more casual ride.

Here is a link to the pedaldabs site : PedalDabs Platforms for Clipless Shimano® 2014 SPD-SL® Pedals | bikedabs

I'm intrigued by the Shimano Click-R pedals mentioned above. They are suppose to be much easier to unclip from.

MRT2

You had two bad crashes where the driver right hooked you. Once could happen to anyone. Twice suggest something else is going on other than learning how to use clipless pedals. This is about knowing how to position yourself on the road as a cyclist. As others have mentioned, unless you dismount your bike and walk across an intersection, you are not a pedestrian, but rather you are a vehicle. If you were a car, you would never pass another vehicle on the right at an intersection for the same reason you shouldn't do it as a cyclist. So if you are crossing an intersection, take the lane and cross the intersection or get behind the car or SUV making the the right turn.

MRT2

That is a poorly designed MUP.

Porschefan

Got it. And I appreciate the points you make. At the risk of careening the thread off into a discussion of how to ride on the road properly, I'll just note that this particular MUP is between 20 and 40 yards from the road (Tramway Avenue), which does have a nice wide shoulder for bikes, and that a lot of cyclists use. The city is Albuquerque, NM and is a pretty bike-conscious town. I can't really comment on how well or poorly designed the MUP is, but in this case my choice is either ride it OR the road. Maybe if I continue to ride the MUP, and until I get better skills, I'll just dismount and walk my bike at each intersection. That wouldn't kill me (no pun intended).

Another more experienced friend told me while riding either act like a pedestrian or a car. No in-between stuff. I think that's what you are saying.

STP


STP

TheManShow

My clipless peddles are like 20 years old, it never ceases to amaze me how much dirt & crud get in the back of the peddles were the slot is for snapping in & out.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5457/9...1ea0553a_b.jpg

Think this photo show the slot I am talking about. Hint Right Hand Side Top.

GravelMN

I've never used Speedplay so can't comment about them. I have used SPD with walkable MTB shoes and dual sided pedals and have nothing but good to say about them. Multi-release cleats and adjusting the retention setting to the lightest point that prevents accidental clip-outs and they require so little effort to disengage that even if you forget you are clipped in, you will feel only a light click as long as you don't try to step off straight forward or straight back. You are not "locked to the bike" as the fear mongers like to claim. I had a MTB mishap last weekend where my bike and I parted company and I became unclipped well before I hit the ground, with no conscious effort on my part, even though I had felt secure hopping over rocks and roots for the previous hour.

If you fall from a failed unclip or otherwise, DO NOT put your hands out. Your best bet is to keep your hands on the bar and to tuck your chin toward your chest on the side away from the fall. Your hip, ribs and shoulder will take the impact which will spread the force out over a much greater area than the bones of your wrist and forearm. You can practice this in a number of ways. One of the best is to find a grassy area with a moderate slope. Stand sideways to the slope so you will be falling uphill. Bend your knees slightly and hold your hands out in front of you as if you were about to pass a basketball. Focus on keeping your hands still while you turn your head slightly away and tuck your chin then allow yourself to fall sideways. Exhale as you land. You'll be surprised how little it hurts. If you can get a bit of a roll from your hip to your shoulder, the impact will be even less. If you have access to a gym with a floor mat, that is also a great place to practice.

Another good skill to have is the track stand, the ability to come to a full stop with both feet on the pedals while balancing the bike. You don't have to be a pro who can hold a track stand like a statue for several minutes, just being able to maintain a slightly wobbly balance for a few seconds will do. I've had a few close calls with cars pulling out, pedestrians stepping in front of me, or right hooks where I have stopped for a couple of seconds then proceeded around them without ever putting a foot down.

Remember that clipless systems are mechanical devices and require cleaning, lubrication and maintenance. Clean them well and inspect them for wear. Excessive wear or damage is a reason for replacement of the cleats or both cleats and pedals. If all looks good, make sure that all screws are secure and that the tension adjustment (if there is one) is set equally and to your liking. Lubricate lightly (I use the same dry wax based lube I use on my chain) and do a few test clips just to assure everything is operating smoothly.

SpeshulEd 

This is good advice based on the fact that both of your situations have happened due to right hooks. Remember, you are traffic when you're out on a road, so try to obey traffic laws...there's a million different ways to handle red lights, but I always suggest to beginners to stay behind cars and get in line just like if you were driving. People are idiots and they don't pay attention to their surroundings, nor do they use blinkers, so it's hard to tell if they see you or what way they're turning.

For the most part, it sounds like bad drivers are a bigger issue than your clipping in and out of your pedals. Still, practice helps, as well as establishing an unclipping technique that you do every time you need to unclip. For me, I always unclip my left foot. I usually do so before I need to stop, maybe 5-10' away from where I need to stop. I coast to my stopping point, adjusting my balance, and slowing down simultaneously. As you become used to the same technique it becomes second nature. You're still going to have issues at times due to unforeseen circumstances...happened to me a couple of months ago when a lady pushing a stroller walked out in front of me. My left foot was unclipped, but I had adjusted my weight to the right and couldn't get my right foot out and down I went.

Just don't get discouraged. It happens to everyone.

jfowler85

Adjust the tension as loose as can be ridden safely without inadvertently unclipping while mashing on the pedals or tweaking your leg to adjust your position on the saddle. After switching from toe clips I've only had one close call, which was mashing uphill when a car pushed me into a pothole at less than 5mph while creeping to a 4-way stop.

It also helps to use two sided pedals (cleats go in one side, flats on the other); using these, you can anticipate a bad situation and unclip ahead of time. If the situation warrants unclipping, you can then just bail as you will, at that point, already have been on the flats. It also helps to learn to balance your bike while at a near stop and still clipped in, e.g. creeping behind a car at a multi-way stop or waiting for a light to turn green.

Nermal

Thanks from me too. I bet I look into those before the summer is over.

CliffordK

Let me start with inflatable kayaking vs hardshell kayaking. I've had my inflatable kayak for years, and am quite comfortable with it. So I decided to learn to use a hardshell kayak. Went to the pool, got some pointers and tried it out. Set up the roll, roll upside down. Do the sweep and come up... perhaps on the 2nd time??? Anyway, I got so I might have to try it a couple of times, but rarely bail.

Head to the river... flip... everything is backwards... and I'm bailing every time.

It is like it is very hard to practice an accident. Anyway, I still like my inflatables.

==========

As far as the clipless... I really don't know how I fall, it happens so rarely. I did take a couple of falls with traction loss on my driveway. I probably now bail too early when I could in fact make it. But I have also had a few emergency stops where getting the feet out of the pedals is just fine. I usually have SPDs tightened to the point where they are difficult to get in.

Anyway, I've used toeclips since I was very young. Personally I think one can get one's feet out of the toeclips quicker than clipless (tight or loose) due to pulling the feet down and back, i.e. towards the ground, whereas the clipless is more of twisting and an upward movement. Nonetheless, I have fallen over with the the toeclips when I was just learning.

Those people who convert from toeclips to clipless aren't always immune to problems, but the conversion is generally quick and relatively painless.

An option would be to go incrementally with the toeclips.

• Half Clips
• Full Clips, No Straps
• Full Clips, Loose Straps
• Full Clips, normally tightening straps.
• Clips and Grooved cleats?

One thing about the toeclips.. while one can generally extract one's feet without loosening the straps... getting into the habit of loosening them makes it much easier to get one's feet back in. And perhaps it gets one into practice of considering an upcoming stop before one gets there.

I don't track stand per se, but I can ride mighty slowly.

RonH

I'm 70. I switched from another clipless pedal at age 67 when I was having difficulty unclipping in "emergency" situations. I talked to the shop owner and he suggested Speedplay Light Action. I've been riding with them (on both bikes) since March 2012 and have never had a problem with unclipping in any situation. Even when I still lived in Atlanta and was riding in their crazy traffic.
Are you twisting your foot (heel outward) to release? Maybe you just need to practice so unclipping becomes second nature.

Porschefan

OP here. Thanks to all who have posted. I've been pleasantly surprised and very appreciative that so many chimed in with great suggestions. I'll try to summarize my responses to some of the ideas presented, as well as my immediate plans of action. And I'll do my best to be succinct and avoid the TLDR (too long didn't read) syndrome. I posted this both here and on The Paceline so some of the ideas came from over there too.

Got some really promising SPD pedals/cleats--Shimano SPD Clik'R's.

Doug59 suggested these pedals which are supplied with the SH56 multi-release cleats. Here's the best writeup on these that I've found. I'd been aware of these for some time, and actually intended to get some for another bike at some point. I went down to the local REI where they had a demo display set up and tried them out. I have to say that I was blown away by the super-easy clipping in/out with these. The Clik'R pedals claim a ~60% (whatever that means!) reduction in force needed to clip out. They were astonishingly easy to get out of. AND, quite difficult to clip out of accidentally. Coupled with the multi-release cleats I can't imagine anything other than flats that would be easier to disengage from. Proof will be in the pudding, of course, and I'll report back after I've actually done some riding. I will try these out on the trainer and in controlled conditions first. If I have ANY problems with them, I'll put on some flats. Someone suggested about 3K miles on flats should put me where I want to be...and that's probably about right.

Learn to fall

Several people have suggested various ways to go about this and it makes total sense to me. GravelMN posted a great detailed description of one way to approach it:

"If you fall from a failed unclip or otherwise, DO NOT put your hands out. Your best bet is to keep your hands on the bar and to tuck your chin toward your chest on the side away from the fall. Your hip, ribs and shoulder will take the impact which will spread the force out over a much greater area than the bones of your wrist and forearm. You can practice this in a number of ways. One of the best is to find a grassy area with a moderate slope. Stand sideways to the slope so you will be falling uphill. Bend your knees slightly and hold your hands out in front of you as if you were about to pass a basketball. Focus on keeping your hands still while you turn your head slightly away and tuck your chin then allow yourself to fall sideways. Exhale as you land. You'll be surprised how little it hurts. If you can get a bit of a roll from your hip to your shoulder, the impact will be even less. If you have access to a gym with a floor mat, that is also a great place to practice."

I may even go to a martial arts studio and get some lessons!

General Road Riding Skills/Awareness

Many have posted on this and it's right up there equally or more important to any mechanical problems/solutions. I do attend training sessions at a cycling studio and my "coach" and I have talked about some private sessions/lessons/drills for developing proper skills, awareness, etc. I'm going to do this ASAP.

There is also a local organization, the New Mexico Touring Society, that I've joined and they offer group rides at all levels in a regular (like 4-5 days per week!) that will probably help a lot.

A Couple More Things

I WILL use flats if I can't or until I do get really comfortable with clipless. I was going to go this route anyway but the SPD Clik'R's may prove to be just the right gradient. I'm not sure whether it's pride or stubbornness (if there's any root difference between those two), but I hear those who suggest that those might at play here! I will say that one of the motivations I had for going clipless in the first place was that I was experiencing some problems with my feet bouncing right off the pedals when hitting a bump at "speed" (relative term here...). Probably another matter of technique.

I'll use the Speedplays for the days when I use the CompuTrainer at the cycling studio. I like the stiffness and feel of the road shoes and long-term would like to have that option. (Here's link to P2M in case there are any local BF members interested. BTW, if there ARE any local guys, feel free to get in touch!).

Thanks again to everyone. I'll update this thread as I get results on these plans. I know I tend to go on, but at this point I guess it's just the way I roll. Hopefully all these great points will end up being a positive contribution to clipless archives and help out others looking into the subject.

STP

doug59

Glad to read this. What type of shoe (brand / model) did you get? How about the pedals?

I've found these on Amazon but I'm not sure if my LBS will carry them.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...A3VFOJ1QCSBHXC

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...A3TCNCNGLOHBSA


Part of the reason I ask is that I'm new to the clipless experience too and after spending $180 on shoes and $100 on pedals, I'm hoping I can get by with buying the pedals and using my current shoes. I'm afraid I may not be able to do this because my shoes are SPD-SL type shoes.

https://www.davidsworld.com/product/b...s-179559-1.htm
Thank you in advance.

CliffordK

Maybe some pads... Like the Michelin Tire guy...




Or, perhaps a full body armor Iron Man suit



Anyway, if a fall is so serious, I would certainly consider pads.

Skateboard pads? The problem is that they protect the knees and elbows, but don't seem to do wrists. They might give more comfort in a fall though, and thus less likely to put the arm out. There are good wrist braces that might help a bit too.

Porschefan

I bought the CT 45 shoes.



The CT45 and the CT41 are both very lightweight, shoes. Made more for light weight, breathability and off-bike comfort than sturdier shoes. I will probably get a pair of sturdier SPD shoes at some point as I don't see these being super-durable in any case. But they are light and comfortable and you can walk around off the bike with no problems at all--no clicking of cleats on hard surfaces. Also, I'm 99% certain that it's the "Clik'R" pedal + the SH56 multi-release cleat combination that makes clipping out easy; you could use ANY SPD shoes with the "Clik'R" + SH56 and get the benefits.

I got the PDT400.



They have SPD bindings on both sides, instead of one side SPD, one side flat. It IS possible and easy to pedal with regular shoes on these, but if I were doing a lot of riding with non-bike shoes, I'd get the dual-purpose ones.


FWIW, I bought both at REI. The pedals were $65 + tax vs. $42 on Amazon. Amazon doesn't have the shoes. REI guys were very helpful in getting the right size and getting the cleats mounted in the (theoretically) right position--they measured my feet and the distance between the "ball" of the foot and middle of the instep and placed the cleats accordingly. Plus REI has a 10% dividend at the end of the year; plus no-hassle returns. I figure they easily earn the extra $$ with their customer service.

I think you are right--those shoes are SPD-L specific (vertical 2-hole pattern) and won't take the the SPD cleats (horizontal 2-hole). They look like nice shoes though.

HTH.

STP

Porschefan

Mmmm.... I guess I could try a reverse diet and see how close the Michelin man I could get. Oh...BTDT...

STP