Oatdogg

First if all, Zipp wheels are my dream wheel set!

I'm currently looking for some serious racing wheels like Zipp 404, 808 or even 900.
After long study and loads of information, I found out ,when compared with other brand like EDGE, MAVIC, BONTRAGER, popular weakness of Zipp such

-they break easily (pot holes)
-not stiff enough when the rider is off the saddle. some say that internal nipples like mavic cosmic sl or bontrager are a lot stiffer and better when accellerate.

but after all the complain,, if I'm not mistaken, Zipp is still a popular brand for triathlet and time trialist . This makes me really wonder why??? or is it because in triathlon, we don't need to accellerate very often??? please advise.

thank you

Jsiegs

Firstly, Zipp wheels are pretty durable. Very durable in fact (I think their early wheels had durability issues, but those have been well addressed). You could ride them everyday and probably have no different wear and tear or damage than you'd encounter on a decent training wheelset. The reason people don't ride them everyday is that if something does happen, such as a wreck or huge hole etc, you'd rather bust a $100 wheel than a $1000 one.

Zipps are popular because of their patented toroidal shape (now actually off patent). HED, SRAM, Bontrager wheels actually use this shape too. Its a faster shape across the range of yaw angles than just a deep V shape (found on EDGE, Mavic, Reynolds, etc). They are some of the fastest, lightest (while being very aero) wheels out there. They are the Apple of wheels. Sure, a PC or regular mp3 player will do, but a Mac or iPod has that little extra performance and "pizzazz" that some people will want, and some will not (they have dimples! Dimples are faster!).

Stiffness - you are right that in triathlon, who cares? You should never be sprinting or accelerating quickly anyway, so why do you care if your equiptment can handle it? Stiffness is one of the most overrated (along with weight) metrics for triathlon, IMHO. Also, they will more than handle the output you will have (and pro's have) during a cycling race or TT or Tri. I highly doubt pro racers would use them for cycling races if they couldn't handle it.

Triguy

Jsiegs hit quite a few points, and I'll just add on a little bit.

First, I think that Zipps have a reputation of breaking easily, though their more recent models are more beefed up and this reputation may be in the past. Also, I think that there are just a lot more Zipp wheels out there than anything else. At Ironman Hawaii this year, there were almost 8 times more Zipp wheels than the next closest competitor (Hed). I don't know how well that represents the Carbon race wheel market as a whole BUT if it's even the slightest indicator that means that there are a lot more "broken" Zipp stories out there only because there are so many more Zipps.

Second, stiffness. Stiffness is really tricky to pin down. Some people argue that it's extra stiff wheels that rub on frames because the wheel is so sturdy the frame bends in to the wheel. Either way, I would say yes in general stiffness matters less to triathletes because you NEVER ever need to really hammer in a triathlon. The only data I have on the 808 firecrest clincher shows it mid/rear of pack in stiffness compared with other aero wheels; though the Hed 3 is last and it has been an iconic wheel for about 20 years now.

To more directly answer your question, Zipp is the most popular because of technology and marketing. As the other poster pointed out, for 20 years Zipp and Hed shared a patent which gave them faster wheels. Now that patent has expired. Zipp and Hed have been joined by Enve(Edge) and Bontrager with toroidal rims, and Mavic and Gigantex are apparently close to releasing toroidal wheels/rims as well. Beyond that though, Zipps are lighter than the competition usually and they have a lot of sponsored riders.

SPRINTTRIAZ

Road Bike Action's 2012 buyer guide goes through the ins and outs of wheels. Most importantly, it goes into which break pads each manufacturer recommends. The high heat above 300 degrees or more require the correct brake pads. Looks like they come with the wheel sets. Lava magazine online has photos of several of the pros bikes on their. Except for the Reynolds RZR at $6k, the zip 808 fire rest wheel set is around $2,700 list and probably comes with pads. Full rear disc was common at IMAZ, but I'd say most pros and age groupers who have those wheels used deep 60-80 carbon wheels. For the cost/value you may want to also include Easton EC90 Aero in your research. Pretty good read. Zipps have a lot of cycling championships in the cycling world, but so do the other brands you mention.

Not sure if this pic will upload from Lava mag screen shot, but you can see the different wheels there. The RBA is a must read if you are shopping for wheels or frames, etc.

Gallery: Ironman Arizona Pro Bikes
A look at some of the pro bikes from last weekend's Tempe race
Posted on November 22, 2011 by Jennifer Ward Barber



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LAVA was at the TRIBE Multisport/Slowtwitch.com gathering in Scottsdale, Ariz. in the days leading up to Ironman Arizona. Editor Jay Prasuhn was in attendance and had a chance to grab us a look at the rides of several top pros, including that of men’s race winner Eneko Llanos.







Read more: Gallery: Ironman Arizona Pro Bikes : LAVA Magazine https://lavamagazine.com/gear/gallery...#ixzz1fxD1H7mT
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Oatdogg

Thanks all the replies.

Really give me lots of idea. just one more thing poped up , what happened to spoke wheels??
seems like nobody is using that type of wheels anymore.
Asking 'cause a guy I know trying to sell his pair of 3 spoke front + 4 spoke rear from Corima for only 1,500 USD

thanks

Triguy

Spoked wheels suffer for a variety of reasons:
1. There is only one truly wind tunnel designed carbon spoke wheel I know of, the Hed 3. And though it is a very fast wheel, it's limited by being designed for 19-20mm tires, run a 23mm tire on it and a 404 is faster. I'm not aware of Nimble or Corima actually designing their wheels in the tunnel.
2. Carbon spoke wheels tend to be horizontally less stiff and vertically more stiff; so they corner a little differently and at the end of the day are a little less comfortable.
3. They are more difficult to handle because of the greatly increased side area.

Cateye

Umm....... they are popular because they are fast.

They don't break easy, I have hit just about everything with mine and they have never been out of true, and they are very stiff. Not sure where you’re doing your research or what year model Zipps you’re referring too? If the pros can win Paris Robuix on zipps without breaking them my guess is that you will never break them.

StanSeven

Now Zipp has the firecrest which distinguishes them again.

Jsiegs

I wouldn't say it truly distinguishes them - HED has been using the wider 23 mm rim for awhile in its C2, and that's not patentable (to my knowledge). Another company, Flo Clycling, is developing toroidal shaped, wind tunnel tested/designed wheels at a very affordable price point. I guess Zipp has the only full carbon clincher version, but probably not for long.

Triguy

Enve has full carbon clincher bulbous shaped rims.

tessartype

Compare Firecrest to HED's Stinger and Jet shapes, and you'll find Zipp are the ones late to the party. At the moment, Zipp, HED, Bontrager and ENVE all abandoned the "classic" toroidal shape in favour of a wide rim that gets wider still, and tapers into a very blunt shape.

Oatdogg

thanks everyone,

After I posted this question, I went back to find out a bit more (yes... more ... because those wheels are very expensivevvvvvvvv) kind of realized that HED was the first one telling the world "wider is better" even before Zipp did. Seems like HED is actually a step further than Zipp... Let's say (to my knowledge)

1.HED discovered about the matter of rim shape before anyone else.
2.HED has been selected by many pro-teams that don't have wheels-sponsor (freedom of choice to select their wheels)

Why HED is far less popular than Zipp?? not to mention... less exciting website (some info & tech are too old)

Just wondering :-)

FLO Cycling

I appreciate you keeping us in mind. We appreciate it.

Triguy

To say Hed is ahead of Zipp is probably a tough one. They definitely were on the wider is better mantra before Zipp, however, I'd take a firecrest 808 over a Jet 9 cost not an issue.

I'd say it's a combination of marketing, brand perception, overall distribution network and product quality. I've owned both and Zipp's do have a higher attention to detail. When it comes to race wheels, I think people since their paying the dough, are willing to spring for the extra perceived quality. However, thats not to say that a Stinger 9 is any slower than an 808, it's not.

I know that my LBS pushed Zipp, just a better working relationship.

Cateye

They are pretty much the same and same price. HED are a bit ugly but that is just opinion.