WNCGoater

So @canklecat listed some super-duper Champion boxer briefs he sometimes wears. Longish and somewhat compression type legs. Synthetic wicking type fabric. Very "slick" for lack of a better word. I got a couple pair. I've done a 14+, a 22+ and then a 30+ miler wearing these shorts and just tights or jogging/sport pants on top. The first two rides were on a Brooks and the 30 miler was on a Selle Anatomica.

So does anyone ride exclusively without the use of chamois (you bent riders be quiet!) ?

I'm thinking the right saddle with the right clothing could eliminate the need for the chamois pad. At least in cooler weather. I could see Summer being a problem with sweat control though.
One caveat is the outer garment cannot be heavy fabrics and cannot have heavy seams and I suspect rear pockets could be an issue.

Flip Flop Rider

never used, never will, but I use a nose-less saddle for now and have for many years

rumrunn6

thin lined Zoot 9" Trishorts Men's XXL for my 38" waist get them on Amazon, not cheap but you get your money's worth. I have 3 pair & use then year round under other stuff

https://www.amazon.com/Zoot-Sports-P...9%22+Trishorts

CreakingCrank

I commute year-round, rec ride and tour without a chamois. I ride on a broken-in Brooks B17. I also like tight, longish leg, synthetic underwear, but nothing special (I get them at Walmart, or is it Wal-mart now?).

I made a pact with spandex years ago and am not about to break that deal now. I ride in anything from gym shorts to active shorts with pockets to sweatpants to khakis (when commuting home from work). As long as it doesn't have jeans-like seams, I'm good.

canklecat

I do see some folks riding in ordinary underwear and jeans or shorts on saddles that, to me, appear hard or a bit too firm. For example, friends who ride either Brooks leather or Cambium saddles. They say those are comfortable.

When I ride with just Champion wicking fabric undies under mountain biking baggy shorts, jeans, etc., I'm riding a hybrid with an old Bell saddle made from Lycra fabric stretched over progressive density foam. In other words, my saddle is made exactly the way as tight Lycra/Spandex shorts with chamois or faux-chamois padding. Instead of wearing it, I'm sitting on it. Same thing.

Until this week my road bike had a similar saddle, an older Terry saddle in the classic Selle Turbo configuration, but with Lycra over firmer progressive density foam. It was comfortable even without padded shorts, including in hot sweaty summer. But the saddle configuration didn't suit me. Too wide, too much up-flare in the back. I was always scooting around trying to find the sweet spot.

So this week I replaced it with a Selle Italia SLS Kit Carbonio saddle. It's pretty comparable to the Fizik Antares I've seen -- not completely flat, but with only a slight up-flare in the back, very little padding. And the 130mm width suits me better, vs the 170mm wide Terry saddle. But I can tell from the first couple of rides I'll need my padded shorts. This saddle won't break in. It's not that kind of saddle. And there are limits to how much a butt can harden up. So I may end up wearing those 3D sculpted padded shorts I got a couple of years ago and never wore.

But for folks who'd rather not bother with padded shorts or liners, I can definitely recommend the Lycra over foam saddles. Serfas still makes the Tailbones lineup with saddles ranging from narrow and sporty to wide cushioned comfort types. Other than those I don't know -- the Bell and Terry saddles I have using Lycra over foam are more than a decade old and not made anymore.

The Selle Anatomica X saddles also seem popular in my area. I've ridden one only around the block and it did feel very comfortable.

Serfas Tailbones saddles. Check out the versions with Lycra fabric stretched over progressive density foam. Even if you don't stay with the Tailbones saddle, it could be useful for recovering from saddle sores, or for the spinning bike sessions when you tend to sit more heavily in the saddle.

Iride01 

Before I started riding again, I found out while walking with my wife that sweaty cotton underwear was worse than sandpaper at chafing me raw.

The first three or for years, I mostly rode without a chamois. I wore sport briefs made of synthetic fiber under any pair of shorts that didn't have seams that bothered me.
I was using bike shorts too. But they bothered me more on long rides. I have at least three hundred milers that I did without a chamois.

However I've since found the right bike shorts or gotten used to the chamois, so I seldom ride without now.

TimothyH

Zoot shorts with a thin liner are one of the best kept secrets in cycling.

Thanks for the reminder and the link. I need to get another pair. My first pair lasted forever.


-Tim-

BlazingPedals

I've left the pads in many of my shorts. I may not need it for the padding itself, but it helps with moisture control and chafing.

CliffordK

Most of my riding is in jeans.

I have tried tights without padding, and the ride is quite a bit harsher than the jeans.

I've ridden century+ rides in jeans, but am now tending towards padded shorts or tights for the longer rides.

Machka 

When I'm on a cycling tour, sometimes I ride with padded cycling shorts ... sometimes I don't.

But otherwise, most of the time I ride with padded cycling shorts.

tangerineowl

That's different? from the SLR? Kit Carbonio.

Came from various Toupe saddles (143 wide). Turned into a weight weenie and looked around, finding an OEM option. Mine is 136mm wide. After a couple of weeks getting used to it, now I think its great.

Would love to be able to get around without a chamois.

canklecat

Yeah, the SLS is the bargain version of the SLR, substituting cheaper materials: steel rather than carbon fiber rails; fiberglas saddle form rather than CF. It still appears to be a very well made saddle for the price (I think it was under $30 via Amazon, a little higher elsewhere). And it's more than light enough for my 24 lb steel road bike -- the SLS is variously listed as 200-220 g.

I wasn't sure whether the 131mm width (I think that's Selle Italia's official measurement) was right for me, but the homebrewed measurement methods indicated my butt is pretty narrow so it should be fine.

So far, so good. On my two rides so far, 15 and 24 miles, I really didn't even think about the saddle. That's a good thing. With my former saddle I was constantly shifting around trying to find the sweet spot, wasting energy. It wasn't due to pain or pressure, but the saddle thwarted me. It's modeled after the old Selle Turbo, and defied my attempts to sit still. But with the Selle Italia SLS Kit Carbonio, I sit and forget it's there. Even when alternating between standing to climb, sitting, standing, etc., every 10-15 seconds, I seem to just plop back down on the sweet spot without needing to shift around. That's a good thing.

But my longest continuous ride has been 24 miles. Weather permitting I'll try for a longer ride this weekend. If it's uncomfortable after a 30-50 mile ride I may consider returning or exchanging it and trying one of the Selle Italia Flow models, perhaps the discontinued Q-Bik version that's heavily discounted right now.

My ride distance limit is always dictated by neck pain (old C2 injury), not butt pain, so if the saddle is reasonably comfortable up to 50 miles once or twice a month, and my usual 20-30 mile rides two or three times a week, that's good enough for me.

irwin7638

I wear just what you describe most of the time. Rivendell makes some very nice pants that are made for riding. I definitely don't wear the diapers. A leather saddle and fabric which wicks moisture from the skin will keep you comfortable day in and day out. I ride about 10-12K per year between commuting, utility, club rides, charity rides and week long self supported touring. Back in the 70's we used wool shorts with a leather chamois sewn in for moisture control, the diapers began to develop with the "latest, greatest" synthetic saddle designs.

Marc

mpath

This is true, but could be reversed in the sense that a "hard" saddle with the right clothing works also.

I ride a minimalist carbon saddle with carbon rails and that the casual rider would completely regard as torture, but during riding season my weekend rides are easily 80+ miles and with the right padded shorts/bibshorts, a sore butt is never an issue. The key is, IMO, to get a quality short/bibshort as that make all the difference in the world.

Retro Grouch 

Why do you ask?

Whose tushie is it? If you're happy riding with unpadded shorts what does it matter what anybody else does?

fietsbob

Lined but not "padded" has been my preference, for decades.. & on my Brooks team pro saddle..


but just riding to the bar, it does not need special gear.

ddub

Just to be clear. Why don't we like to ride with shorts without a chamois? Curious.

FBinNY 

Just to be clear, we have to separate the concepts of chamois and padding.

Biking shorts were historically lined with a patch of chamois skin (goat hide). These were unpadded, and as much to protect the wool fabric as the rider.

Later the natural skin was replaced with a synthetic, originally a form of Ultra Suede (trademark name),and later on one made for the purpose. At this point they were still unpadded, and offered the friction protection of natural chamois with easier care, which was very welcome when wool gave way to Lycra.

At some point they started adding a bit of padding, which was also welcome by most. The problem is that these days the amount of padding is excessive, way beyond what's needed, and causing new problems.

I bring up the history because the real question has to be do we want chamois, padding, both or neither. Asked that way, I suspect you'd find a decent cohort saying yes to the chamois (synthetic analog) and no to the padding, or possibly yes to both as long as it's minimal padding.

Currently I'm in good shape, owning a decent number of older shorts with synthetic chamois, and minimal padding. When I renter the market, I hope that someone goes back to that design, but if not, I'd probably ending up buying women's "bike shorts" meaning those lycra garments that look like bike shorts, but aren't.

canklecat

A friend has switched to noseless saddles, at least for winter indoor training. He's a seriously strong rider by any standard (especially for his age, over 50) with more local KOMs and top tens than I can count. But those miles, especially in summer on a hard Fizik saddle, finally caught up with him. He tried an ISM for awhile and now, for the indoor trainer at least, is considering an even more minimalist saddle, just pads for the sit bones. I haven't asked for the gory details but he's gotta be experiencing some serious discomfort.

WNCGoater

That I agree with. The cheap stuff is often worse than nothing.

WNCGoater

The reason I ask is, I'm beginning to rethink the necessity of padded shorts. Perhaps switching to leather saddles caused that, dunno, but I am beginning to believe 1. We've been sold to believe padded shorts are a necessity and 2. I believe most of the padding in shorts is too thick.

So it really doesn't matter what anyone else does, other than I'm curious & willing to learn from other's experience.

FBinNY 

+1 on your observations.

For whatever reason the trend has been to more and more padding, which we never needed in the first place. I suspect that this is in response to new rider's complaints of saddle discomfort. It's easier to response to that with a "solution" rather than helping folks get past the problem.

BTW- not wanting to be a retro grouch, but much of what we see today is the result of marketing to the modern audience coming to the sport later in life, and wanting easy answers to what they see as problems.

WNCGoater

That's what I'm beginning to question. I think the padding is too thick. In fact I have for some time questioned men's shorts with padding between that uh, that area between point A and B that is vulnerable to pressure. Seems no padding there and thin padding under the seat bones would suffice. As it is, I believe padding in that area just potentially adds pressure. Now that I've ridden totally without padding I'm become more convinced that padding is overrated, over used, and possibly totally unnecessary with a properly fitted saddle.

I'm not throwing out all my riding shorts just yet but I am looking for viable alternatives with little or no padding.

WNCGoater

We were posting at the same time but yes, ^that^.

FBinNY 

There's no reason for padding under the sit bones either. It's easier to pad plastic saddles for those who want that, and leather saddles should break in and spread the load such that padding is useless.