zjrog

I have 2 older mag trainers available. A Giant Cyclotron Mag, and an older Performance mag trainer that also clamps the fork as well. Both have remote controls for changing resistance.

I presently have an older roadbike on the Performance trainer. A 98 Cannondale R200 with 3x7 gearing. I ride 2 road bikes, both with 2x10 but one is a compact crankset. And a 3x9 29er...

I have Wahoo Blue SC on all 3 road bikes. Looking for a training app that has plans available for an enthusiast. No plans to race, but don't want to hold up a faster crowd if I go with them.

What app might work best for this? I tried Zwift last year, at 100 pounds heavier. Being honest with my stats, I was never able to get my avatar moving more than what looked like 5 mph... No fun to watch as everything and everybody goes by...

Planning to use my android phone and or a laptop connected to a TV. Laptop will have a wired network connection, not wifi so video should stream well... As a result of weight loss and the need for a cardiologist last year, I train with a Tickr HRM belt... Cardiologist has cleared me for all I want to do. But avoid over 110% of the 220- age scales... So I back off at 170...

Carbonfiberboy 

I've been training on a set of resistance rollers with a HRM for over 20 years. I just acquired a hub power meter, which is a nice addition. Canned training plans are not all that useful IME having tried several.

Be that as it may, what has been extremely useful for me is some way of assessing training load and status. I've been using TrainingPeaks Premium for a few years and like it very much. Whatever you use for tracking your speed/cadence/HR, it needs to be able to upload to the web, either to TrainingPeaks or Strava or both, whatever you want to use. I happen to like TP. TrainingPeaks has a wide variety of inexpensive training plans for purchase, and also a long list of suggested training intervals, etc., which come with a Premium account.

I don't think I'd find network training all that useful for me. There's stuff I want/need to do, and I simply do what I need to do on my rollers. No fooling around. IME resistance levels are not very interesting. One can use gears to change resistance.

Main things you need are a powerful box fan and a sweat bra to keep your bike from rusting.

Seattle Forrest

Congratulations on losing 100 pounds!

zjrog

Beginning to lean towards Rouvy, but waiting for word from a local guy I know that uses it. I'm already on Strava...

Truth is, I've lost 135 pounds in the last 18 months... It's been a wild ride...

burnthesheep

Honestly, I'd say watch the GCN show workout videos on youtube for free.

They're legit workouts, simple to follow, and keep you engaged. Before I got Zwift those were my "go to" when I got tired of doing workouts like 3x8's and super prescribed stuff.

Check it out:

zjrog

I love that channel. I've never noticed their workouts...

In a different vein, if I were to use the Kurt Kinetic iNride sensor they sell to update their dumb trainers, any reason I couldn't do that with my own?
I realize this doesn't control resistance to the trainer, just provides data based off the flywheel and wheel drum.

caloso

Another vote for the GCN videos. That's a solid option.

OBoile

I used to have a Kurt Kinetic which I upgraded with the sensor. It worked fairly well. But, I don't think it would work with a different company's trainer if that's what your asking.
If you can afford it, just get a power meter for your bike. Then you can train with power both inside and out. Plus, you don't have to ride for 5-10 minutes before performing a calibration like you do with the sensor.

CAT7RDR

Matt Stephens, before he left GCN, did a masterful job on the HIIT videos. Solid workouts in the 30 to 60 minute range that worked well with my cheapo fluid trainer.

zjrog

Thanks for the input! Fairly well is good enough for me at this time. To my Engineering Tech mind, the sensor is only reading the frequency the magnet passes the sensor. The magic is in the sensor case (algorithms and fancy maths!), and the app. Designed around a fluid trainer, not a mag like both of mine. The fluid trainer builds resistance in a nonlinear fashion, as the mag trainer stays linear or has linear steps. The various metrics are quite different between the two. But since there is a needed calibration frequently of the sensor and app, there will likely be a "close enough" value output for my present needs. It could be an inexpensive experiment that may prove fruitless. Now, if the metrics are way out of whack, I'll look for a used fluid trainer. They are online and in the thrift stores pretty frequently.

I understand the value of the power meter, but I'm not at a point in training just yet to NEED that versus my HRM, which is my data set of value to me presently. (but the nerd in me loves ALL the metrics available today) I can afford a PM, but don't presently NEED it as mentioned a second ago. Yes, I'd love to have a full wheel off setup and PM but just can't justify it to myself at present. My present needs are weight loss, heart health and strength. As the weight comes off, and the heart and strength improve, a PM may well be on my list of needs come springtime and outdoor riding again.

OBoile

That is definitely a risk you'd have to take. It may not calibrate properly since the algorithm is expecting a nonlinear rate of decrease in your speed. And that's assuming you can even mount the magnet on the trainer properly.
Well, do what you think is best for you. But, if it seems likely you'll get a real PM eventually, I'd just go ahead and get the PM for your bike. Once you have that, you'll never use this sensor again.

caloso

Yes, my understanding is that there's a known and reliable resistance curve plotted against RPM. If you know the RPM (from the magnet), you can write an algorithm that tracks the curve, and the sensor reports the estimated power.

I have one of those Kinetic trainers. It reads a little low compared to my Quarq, but it's consistent enough that I can just bump up the intensity in the Zwift app when I do the workouts. Close enough for government work, as my dad would say.

shelgame

IMO, just get the Kurt Kinetic if virtual trainign is what you're after. I tried other fluid trainers and their resistance falls of drastically as they heat up. maybe 50w loss at 250w indicated output (in Zwift). I even tried a cooling fan; which helped but not enough.

All of the trainer program that work with 'dumb' trainers estimate the power based on the roller speed and the fluid unit characteristics - but they can't compensate for the heating issue.

I switched to a Kurt Kinetic and a PM at about the same time. The KK resistance does not fall off with heat (measured with my PM). I think due to the much larger fluid unit, and the fact that it's magnetically coupled to the roller.

zjrog

@shelgame, thanks for the insight. There are a good number of KK fluid trainers in the local classifieds. I believe it in my better interest to just go that route, add the green inside sensor if it doesn't already have one.

zjrog

I may well get a PM sooner or later. As for mounting the magnet, both my trainers already have holes to the right edge of the drums, so that was why I even considered that path, after watching the Kinetic install video...

OBoile

Generally that's the idea. But, keep in mind it varies due to temperature of the fluid (which is why you have to re-calibrate it after 10 minutes or so, even the Kinetic ones change slightly as they heat up) and also how tightly the roller is against your tire. The calibration procedure measures how quickly you decelerate and plugs that into the equation. Using a different type of resistance may mess this relationship up.

IIRC, even most of the direct drive smart trainers calculate power this way. It's just more accurate and lower maintenance when the resistance isn't fluid based. I think only one of them actually has a real power meter inside. There's really no need for an expensive strain gauge when you're only variables are the speed and resistance of the trainer.
Definitely works. But, having to calibrate it 10 minutes into a ride (every ride) is a pain. If you're doing something like a Zwift ride/race, you're not going to want to do this once the ride has started.

caloso

Agreed.

shelgame

If you already have a speed sensor on the rear wheel, it will work that way, too. But, it's more accurate if you use the KK sensor (it eliminates tire slip on the roller giving a false high reading).

Carbonfiberboy 

I finally got a PM for my bike and now I can see exactly how much drop-off there is in my resistance rollers' fluid unit. The resistance drops off for at least an hour and gets too hot to touch. Resistance also varies by how much steady power I put into it. My guess is that calibration would never be accurate.

zjrog

I bought the KK iNride sensor. I figured I'll liekly wind up with the KK fluid trainer sooner than later. Of course, they sell a Power control head to replace the fluid unit as well, a lot cheaper than any other setup and fully interactive. I keep missing the cheaper KK trainers in the local classifieds. But hey, Christmas is coming and people will likely be getting new smart trainers and I'll see what I find in a couple months...

In the mean time, as soon as I figure out a way to mount the sensor unit that will be secure. It's just a nagging thing in the back of my mind that wants to know. Fully understanding the unit is designed to expect a certain diameter of rolller for a given speed/RPM. And the different resistance of fluid vs magnetic will skew the data. Hoping that the calibration process will correct the roller diameter differences to a larger degree. But if it show me putting out 1000 watts and I'm not working very hard, or busting my ass and only seeing 20 watts, then the experiment fails and highlights the need to upgrade anyway... I'm just looking for "close" right now. Very uncharted territory.

zjrog

First experiment lasted 1 minute 22 seconds...

To me, not knowing any better, the cadence may have been off. I have my Schosche "Wahoo Blue SC" look alike connected to Rouvy as well as the inside sensor for the trainer. No idea if Rouvy is using the speed and cadence sensor or the inside for that data. I didn't get to try this long enough to even calibrate it...

Incidentally, Rouvy estimates my FTP at 249 before I even rode the bike...

First magnet flew off into the room. Found it. Really didn't expect it work. But had to start somewhere. Next magnet will be more secure. I can't use the grommet that came with the sensor kit. The hole is too small and not deep enough. On the other hand, I read a review DCRainmaker did years ago with an earlier version of this sensor, and he also lost a magnet.

Experiments that don't have failures aren't good experiments, right?

zjrog

Second magnet tried, not going to post the skewed data points. Worth the try. But no dice. Since the diameter of the trainer drums is an expected metric, anything else is skewed.

Now, if I were unethical, I could tear up Rouvy and Zwift. But why. I get nothing from that highly reduced effort.

So searching for a good deal on a Kurt Kinetic fluid trainer... And put in the honest effort with honest reward.

Yes. You told me so. But what I learned was worth the mild path to humility.

zjrog

So, lesson learned. Found and grabbed a Kinetic fluid trainer. Lucky enough to find one at about half what everyone else was asking. Kinetic's iNride sensor installed, up and working. I wrapped tape around the magnet after a few reads online.