What is the speed advantage of a modern steel bike?
#76
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Exactly. Find a nice 10-speed Record or Chorus group and some better wheels (Mavic, whatever) and you'll be fine. My 2003 Scapin steel bike does great with a 10-speed (silver) Campy group and wheels. At 72 I don't keep up with many of the younger folks, but I ride in comfort and style.
#77
Newbie
What is the speed advantage of a moderb steel bike.
Hi,
I am trying to get a definitive, fact based answer to the question: what makes a modern steel frame road bike faster than my vintage - 20 years old - custom steel frame?
Some context. I ride a lovely custom frame built by Dave Moulton called a Fuso. Fits me like a glove. It’s old. How old? 7-speeds old. A few years ago a buddy of mine upgraded my shifters to entry-level Shimano brake/shifters. I recently had a new rear wheel built with a Shimano 105 hub, Mavic rim, and 11-28 cassette. I have Shimano Claris compact cranks: 50/34.
I am fit and - due to limited time - ride hills for about an hour every other day during the week. On weekends I do a longer (32mi.) ride. I occasionally try riding with a local group ride but I am routinely dropped early in the ride. Average pace is about 17mph. It drives me nuts! The other riders are not exactly studs and do not look super fit. What I do notice is everyone is on a modern bike. Carbon mostly. Some titanium. Some steel.
Is it time for me to join the modern world? I love steel. I love custom. Should I just bite to bullet and get a modern custom steel frame (Independent Fabrication looks cool)? What is the true speed advantage of these modern bikes?
Thanks,
Doug
I am trying to get a definitive, fact based answer to the question: what makes a modern steel frame road bike faster than my vintage - 20 years old - custom steel frame?
Some context. I ride a lovely custom frame built by Dave Moulton called a Fuso. Fits me like a glove. It’s old. How old? 7-speeds old. A few years ago a buddy of mine upgraded my shifters to entry-level Shimano brake/shifters. I recently had a new rear wheel built with a Shimano 105 hub, Mavic rim, and 11-28 cassette. I have Shimano Claris compact cranks: 50/34.
I am fit and - due to limited time - ride hills for about an hour every other day during the week. On weekends I do a longer (32mi.) ride. I occasionally try riding with a local group ride but I am routinely dropped early in the ride. Average pace is about 17mph. It drives me nuts! The other riders are not exactly studs and do not look super fit. What I do notice is everyone is on a modern bike. Carbon mostly. Some titanium. Some steel.
Is it time for me to join the modern world? I love steel. I love custom. Should I just bite to bullet and get a modern custom steel frame (Independent Fabrication looks cool)? What is the true speed advantage of these modern bikes?
Thanks,
Doug
Mike Ayling
#78
Senior Member
Advantage? Since it isn't in style, it will never go out of style. It can used and abused, it will resist most crashes and rough handling without structural damage. It is easy to repaint if scratched, or if you get tired of the color. It will give you a supple and responsive ride, stiff enough to transmit power to the rear wheel efficiently, flexible enough to soak up the bumps. And you can ride it for a long time.
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#79
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I"m going to build on that, somewhat. Having more gears doesn't make you faster in terms of top speed, since you're only going to be able to make the same amount of power out of your legs, regardless of which bike you're on. Making more power requires training, both in the gym, and in the saddle. There's no substitute for seat time.
Having more gears does, however, give you more options in how to use that power. Having ten sprockets to choose from, even if it's still the same 11-28 spread of your 7-sp may mean you can find the 'sweet spot' ratio, rather than having to choose between spinning one thats too fast, and getting winded, and grinding one that's a little to big, and burning out.
That won't improve your top speed, but may improve your average somewhat, which may be all the difference in hanging on or getting dropped.
Also, look at your wheels. I'm guessing typical '90s 32-h box section rims. A modern, 24-20h, 'semi-aero' wheel, even a 105-level 'sport' wheelset will often 'wake up' the ride. They will be marginally faster, but noticeable more responsive.
Good tires are worthwhile, too. Fit 28mm tires if the frame will take it. The extra volume (over a 23/25) will help smooth out the ride under real-world (not racing) conditions, and smooth bikes are faster over the long haul.
I did a similar upgrade to an older bike, from its 1997 spec (7-sp RSX) to a late '00s 9-sp Tiagra/105, with the wheels from the 105 doner bike. I had been participating in a multi-day multi-century event, so i was training pretty extensively for that event, as well as a couple of single-day centuries each year. Right after I got in to the upgrade on the bike, work circumstances changed, and I was no longer able to do the event, or even spend as much time riding, let alone follow a training plan.
I find, even with the reduced miles i ride, I'm still a little faster (~1.7 mph, according to strava) average on the 9-sp version of the bike than i was on the 7-sp, over the same routes.
Having more gears does, however, give you more options in how to use that power. Having ten sprockets to choose from, even if it's still the same 11-28 spread of your 7-sp may mean you can find the 'sweet spot' ratio, rather than having to choose between spinning one thats too fast, and getting winded, and grinding one that's a little to big, and burning out.
That won't improve your top speed, but may improve your average somewhat, which may be all the difference in hanging on or getting dropped.
Also, look at your wheels. I'm guessing typical '90s 32-h box section rims. A modern, 24-20h, 'semi-aero' wheel, even a 105-level 'sport' wheelset will often 'wake up' the ride. They will be marginally faster, but noticeable more responsive.
Good tires are worthwhile, too. Fit 28mm tires if the frame will take it. The extra volume (over a 23/25) will help smooth out the ride under real-world (not racing) conditions, and smooth bikes are faster over the long haul.
I did a similar upgrade to an older bike, from its 1997 spec (7-sp RSX) to a late '00s 9-sp Tiagra/105, with the wheels from the 105 doner bike. I had been participating in a multi-day multi-century event, so i was training pretty extensively for that event, as well as a couple of single-day centuries each year. Right after I got in to the upgrade on the bike, work circumstances changed, and I was no longer able to do the event, or even spend as much time riding, let alone follow a training plan.
I find, even with the reduced miles i ride, I'm still a little faster (~1.7 mph, according to strava) average on the 9-sp version of the bike than i was on the 7-sp, over the same routes.
Time to switch to 12 spd Campy w/carbon and turn pro...
I'm not questioning your newfound speed (I wonder what that gain translates to, in watts)... I am however of the opinion that there are other factors which are not being taken into consideration, which would actually account for most of the gain.
A 1.7 mph average speed increase is a "a little faster" for an ICBM, for a cyclist that's a pretty hefty incremental gain.
Congrats on your improvement.
Last edited by Last ride 76; 08-13-19 at 04:51 PM.
#80
Member
50 years ago, when I raced bikes, you could race on anything with fast wheels, fast tires, toe clips, and cycling shoes. It wasn't the end of the world if your Gitane had steel pipes, or if your Torpado had Butted Columbus tubing. (It took 2 more years before we heard of Cinelli.) If your wheels, tires, shoes, and pedals are good, all you are chasing is marginal gains.
Of course, there is a world of marginal gains, but that depends on how deep your pockets are.
Of course, there is a world of marginal gains, but that depends on how deep your pockets are.
#81
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You're claiming you train less, but simply by switching from a 1997 7spd rig to a 2000 9 spd 105 set-up you have boosted your avg speed by 1.7 mph?
I'm not questioning your newfound speed (I wonder what that gain translates to, in watts)... I am however of the opinion that there are other factors which are not being taken into consideration, which would actually account for most of the gain.
I'm not questioning your newfound speed (I wonder what that gain translates to, in watts)... I am however of the opinion that there are other factors which are not being taken into consideration, which would actually account for most of the gain.
I’m sure it’s somewhat lighter, although I never weighed it, but it is definitely more responsive and smoother riding.
As far as training, I get a lot less saddle time, but I hit the gym on a pretty regular basis: weights, plyometrics, rowing and stationary bikes. I’m not in shape for a century, but I can still dial up a pretty good effort for a 20-25 miler.
#82
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It was an “everything but the paint job” upgrade; better wheels and tires, and a lower, wider, better fitted cockpit. The 2x9’s gear range is also a little ‘racier’ than the 3x7, with a top gear of 116 over the 100 from the old setup (at the expense of a couple of bailout low ratios, but it’s pretty flat where I live)
I’m sure it’s somewhat lighter, although I never weighed it, but it is definitely more responsive and smoother riding.
As far as training, I get a lot less saddle time, but I hit the gym on a pretty regular basis: weights, plyometrics, rowing and stationary bikes. I’m not in shape for a century, but I can still dial up a pretty good effort for a 20-25 miler.
I’m sure it’s somewhat lighter, although I never weighed it, but it is definitely more responsive and smoother riding.
As far as training, I get a lot less saddle time, but I hit the gym on a pretty regular basis: weights, plyometrics, rowing and stationary bikes. I’m not in shape for a century, but I can still dial up a pretty good effort for a 20-25 miler.
I definitely buy how the bike feels better to ride. Wheels, cockpit, saddle and fit make a huge difference in how any given bike rides
#84
Senior Member
I'm not sure if any one has suggested this but rent a bike for an hour or two -if you have shops for bike rentals- and go with that group of cyclists. If you still get dropped then you know it's you. Maybe those guys are/were professional cyclists. I don't think you can keep up with these.
But I doubt it's the bike.
But I doubt it's the bike.