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Pedal assist, throttle, or both?

Old 03-03-15, 11:15 PM
  #26  
youthcom
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A local dealer has that Felt & it does look sweet, but at 4k I would need it to be able to assist up to 28mph like some other e-bike companies are doing. I got a deal on bionx equipped bike from the same dealer for 1.9k for a 33 mi r/t commute. It has a throttle option but I rarely use it. It does help at stoplights & like someone else mentioned having to push the bike in some situations like through snow. I do like that the bionx hub drive is virtually silent, whereas the mid-drives seems to produce some "whirring" noise as far as I can hear in youtube videos. At the same time I could use the extended range of a mid-drive as I can drain the whole battery (37V 9.6Ah) on the bionx in 17 miles using moderate assist if there is headwind.
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Old 03-03-15, 11:21 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by youthcom
A local dealer has that Felt & it does look sweet, but at 4k I would need it to be able to assist up to 28mph like some other e-bike companies are doing. I got a deal on bionx equipped bike from the same dealer for 1.9k for a 33 mi r/t commute. It has a throttle option but I rarely use it. It does help at stoplights & like someone else mentioned having to push the bike in some situations like through snow. I do like that the bionx hub drive is virtually silent, whereas the mid-drives seems to produce some "whirring" noise as far as I can hear in youtube videos. At the same time I could use the extended range of a mid-drive as I can drain the whole battery (37V 9.6Ah) on the bionx in 17 miles using moderate assist if there is headwind.
Aren't BionX limited to 20 mph too, or did you hack yours?
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Old 03-04-15, 12:29 AM
  #28  
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Yes my Bionx is limited to 20 though with either throttle or assist I can just about maintain around 18mph maybe because I'm heavier then the assumed weight. Just saying that to justify that price I would want it to go beyond 20mph such as this mid-drive offering from Currie IZIP E3 Peak.
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Old 03-16-15, 08:51 AM
  #29  
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I went with a bionx conversion. I love my own bike more than anything that I did test rides on. I never found a bike with drop bars in an e-bike. It is so much fun! I didn't have the throttle installed. The pedal assist is really responsive... right there with the mid-drive bikes that I tested. This thing is dead silent. I gotta think that the total package (bike, rider, gear) have to come in close to 300 lbs. It get's up and moves like my carbon fiber road bike. If the system continues to perform the way it did today, this is going to be a lot of FUN!
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Old 04-10-15, 10:55 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by Bizman
Be sure to check out the Easy Motion line of ebikes if you haven't already. I have the max 700+ PCS that was custom built by Petes Electric Bikes 2 years ago. Unfortunately Petes closed but with a quick search you should be able to find a dealer or possibly buy direct from Easy Motion.

My bike is a mid drive with a 250w Panasonic motor with pedal assist, no throttle. I use it for commuting and it has worked great! I do not see see it on the home page for Easy Motion as it may hve been replaced by q newer model but they have other bikes to choose from. I would buy another Easy Motion if I was in the market for another ebike as my experience with it has been very good, good luck with your search!
Link: Easy Motion - EBikes
Belated post from a new member:
Second the EasyMotion suggestion/lead. I have the Neo Xtrem, which has both pedal assist (three levels) and a throttle; I have been very happy with my choice. At 50 lbs., it's lighter than most of its competition, and it was the best looking Ebike. In 2013, a Stromer St1 was the only other bike I rode and considered. The Neo Xtrem felt and fit the most like my Rockhopper, looked the best and least like an electric bike, and cost and weighed less than the Stromer. Its my primary winter bike, when I need all the incentive and assistance I can get.
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Old 05-10-15, 01:21 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by InTheRain
I did a test ride on the haibike at Greggs also. It was really, really nice... and really, really expensive. I think the thing that's holding me back from making the purchase is the price of the battery. These high quality batteries look like they are $700 - $1000. They say you should get 2-4 years out of a typical battery. Those prices need to come down by at least 50 percent.
Can you explain why the purchase price must be 50% less? Is it an emotional objection to purchase price?

by my figures, it's quite affordable if you consider cost of operation instead of purchase price. Assuming a rather conservative (for most people) 3000miles/yr and your numbers with 3years life and $1000 price works to approximately to .10c/mile.

Now assume you get 5000miles/year multiplied by 4 years and the battery is $800. Now you're down to .04c/mile.

With a $3000 purchase price of a whole eBike and some tires over the years, you probably spend between .21c - .34c/mile on an eBike over the first 10,000miles. The govt figures .55c/mile these days on an automobile. I know my Honda Civic costs me .23/cents but I've had to put 200k on it and do my own service to get it that low.

i did not complicate the numbers with the cost per watt for charging if anyone wants to call me to task
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Old 05-10-15, 05:10 PM
  #32  
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I'm really hoping the cost will come down on batteries. While I was put off by the prices of the battery on the haibike, I ended up buying a bionx system... the replacement cost on the battery is $1200. I don't really like to do a price comparison between an automobile and bicycle. The bicycle is much more limited in range, load capacity, and driver/passenger comforts. I did not purchase the haibike because I really like my own bike better. The bionx system (probably the most expensive conversion system) allowed me to keep my bike and enjoy the advantages of an electric motor. It seems you get what you pay for in the electric bike world.
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Old 05-10-15, 05:24 PM
  #33  
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I just got a new battery for my BionX, I paid $900 for it...
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Old 05-10-15, 05:26 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by InTheRain
I'm really hoping the cost will come down on batteries. While I was put off by the prices of the battery on the haibike, I ended up buying a bionx system... the replacement cost on the battery is $1200. I don't really like to do a price comparison between an automobile and bicycle. The bicycle is much more limited in range, load capacity, and driver/passenger comforts. I did not purchase the haibike because I really like my own bike better. The bionx system (probably the most expensive conversion system) allowed me to keep my bike and enjoy the advantages of an electric motor. It seems you get what you pay for in the electric bike world.
I went with a Falco Kit and it's pretty expensive too. It's about $1700.00 for the 500 watt, 48V version. A replacement battery for mine would run about $900.00. It's a nice self contained kit like the Bionx with the controller in the motor. So very clean looking install. One nice thing about the Falco kits are they don't limit you to 20 mph. I had mine up to about 40 mph today with a little wind behind me.
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Old 05-10-15, 06:05 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by bareyb
I went with a Falco Kit and it's pretty expensive too. It's about $1700.00 for the 500 watt, 48V version. A replacement battery for mine would run about $900.00. It's a nice self contained kit like the Bionx with the controller in the motor. So very clean looking install. One nice thing about the Falco kits are they don't limit you to 20 mph. I had mine up to about 40 mph today with a little wind behind me.
I had mine up to 40KMs/Hr a few times too... The problem was, I was pedaling my Azz off doing it...
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Old 05-10-15, 07:50 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by 350htrr
I had mine up to 40KMs/Hr a few times too... The problem was, I was pedaling my Azz off doing it...
It was actually 40 MPH. 40 KMs/Hr is 25 MPH. Most e-bikes will do 28 mph with Pedaling and after that the motor kicks off.
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Old 05-10-15, 10:05 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by bareyb
It was actually 40 MPH. 40 KMs/Hr is 25 MPH. Most e-bikes will do 28 mph with Pedaling and after that the motor kicks off.
Yes I know... I think you missed my sarcasm at my 40KM/Hr with me pedalling my Azz off... Compared to your 40MPH E-Assist.
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Old 05-11-15, 02:35 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by 350htrr
Yes I know... I think you missed my sarcasm at my 40KM/Hr with me pedalling my Azz off... Compared to your 40MPH E-Assist.
Doh. Got it.
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Old 05-11-15, 08:00 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by 350htrr
I just got a new battery for my BionX, I paid $900 for it...
This is the battery I have with my bionx system:

DV Battery 48v, 11.6Ah - Electric Cyclery

they want $1225.
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Old 05-11-15, 12:54 PM
  #40  
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I love the looks of the Easy Motion off road bike! I just wish it came with throttle mode.
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Old 05-11-15, 03:13 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by InTheRain
...I don't really like to do a price comparison between an automobile and bicycle. The bicycle is much more limited in range, load capacity, and driver/passenger comforts....
I don't really like to price compare my 3/4 ton diesel pickup and my Honda Civic. The pickup actually has much more passenger comforts as well as more load capacity. But the fact is, if I have an errand to run then one costs nearly $1/mile and the other is much less than half. There is a real cost of operation whether I want to compare them or not. So unless I need to go pickup a load of hay for the horses, the truck sits and I grocery shop with the Honda or my bicycle.

I've been looking hard at the bionX system myself. I'll be interested to hear anything you have to say about it!
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Old 05-11-15, 09:36 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by TinkerinWstuff
I don't really like to price compare my 3/4 ton diesel pickup and my Honda Civic. The pickup actually has much more passenger comforts as well as more load capacity. But the fact is, if I have an errand to run then one costs nearly $1/mile and the other is much less than half. There is a real cost of operation whether I want to compare them or not. So unless I need to go pickup a load of hay for the horses, the truck sits and I grocery shop with the Honda or my bicycle.

I've been looking hard at the bionX system myself. I'll be interested to hear anything you have to say about it!
You're absolutely correct. Each tool has it's specialty. I'm still chasing the truck (there are occasions when I wish I had one to haul horses... now it's borrow or rent that tool.) I have scooter, an ebike, a carbon fiber road bike, a compact sedan, and a midsize sedan... lot's of tools... but, never enough, eh?

The bionx system... I love it. Smooth and silent. I rode all kinds of ebikes and conversions. BionX was the most intuitive, easy to customize the ride qualities with the assistance of an authorized dealer and the associated software. The BionX ride is as close to the feel of riding a regular bike out of all the systems... it is tied with the Bosch mid-drive bikes. I already had a bike that I loved... couldn't find anything pre-manufactured in an ebike that I liked as much. My only desire that I don't have... disc brakes on an ebike - they are heavy enough that it would be nice to have brakes with the most stopping power (my lousy cantilevers just don't cut it... I'm in the process of converting to disc brakes.) BionX is not the most economical system... it's down right expensive... even the ebike dealers told me that. However, they pretty much agree that the BionX is the nicest of the direct drive systems. I'm loving mine more and more each day.
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Old 05-11-15, 10:30 PM
  #43  
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(2 week BionX user) Throttle is nice when you have panniers on and need to get going quickly. For me at least I'm usually in the Highest (or is it lowest...) gear while riding (BionX) and getting going from a dead stop even with pedal assist is a bit slow when in the highest gear.

Its also really useful when I'm towing my daughter on her bike and we are heading uphill. Ive also used it the day after a long (for me) bike ride and I'm too sore to really put any effort into riding to work, yup I'm lazy lol.

I'm really liking my BionX, a LOT, its a blast to ride and I'm still getting exercise as I peddle and use the least amount of power as necessary.
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Old 05-11-15, 10:44 PM
  #44  
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Most people seem to be really happy with the BionX kits. I just couldn't get past the speed restriction when there are other kits available without it. Then again, I tend to ride pretty fast so maybe it's just not an issue for many folks.
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Old 05-11-15, 10:51 PM
  #45  
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well i got mine here in Korea an dhte shop that set it up for me removed the pedal assist speed limitation. It still has the throttle limitation though (20mph/32kmph). With pedaling I've gotten it up to 45kmph (28mph) relatively easily, though I don't do it often. I'm generally happy (when I'm commuting) to ride at or around 20mph consistently with whatever amount of effort I feel like putting into it. What I like most is getting up to 20mph quickly and then maintaining that speed, I don't really get the urge to go faster too often. the dealer did tell me the law in korea is that the bike cant go more than 20kmph unassisted, never mentioned how fast it can legally go assisted though.

my dealer also set mine up with the mountain mode so that it has a higher torque at the start and up hills. This drains the battery faster but helps a lot when I'm haling a good amount of stuff or towing my daughter.
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Old 05-12-15, 08:17 AM
  #46  
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While we are in the subject of throttle, do you guys prefer twist or thumb throttle? I've never use thumb before but read it can be cumbersome when traveling long distance.
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Old 05-12-15, 09:56 AM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by vincent713
While we are in the subject of throttle, do you guys prefer twist or thumb throttle? I've never use thumb before but read it can be cumbersome when traveling long distance.
My thumb throttle is basically on or off hard to control anything in between, I suspect the twist throttle is better that way.

Originally Posted by njt07
well i got mine here in Korea an dhte shop that set it up for me removed the pedal assist speed limitation. It still has the throttle limitation though (20mph/32kmph). With pedaling I've gotten it up to 45kmph (28mph) relatively easily, though I don't do it often. I'm generally happy (when I'm commuting) to ride at or around 20mph consistently with whatever amount of effort I feel like putting into it. What I like most is getting up to 20mph quickly and then maintaining that speed, I don't really get the urge to go faster too often. the dealer did tell me the law in korea is that the bike cant go more than 20kmph unassisted, never mentioned how fast it can legally go assisted though.

my dealer also set mine up with the mountain mode so that it has a higher torque at the start and up hills. This drains the battery faster but helps a lot when I'm haling a good amount of stuff or towing my daughter.
The mountain mode as I understand it is more for saving the battery and lowering the heat buildup in the motor by changing the parameters of the cycle pulse for long hills... On mine I actually have a bit less assistance in mountain mode than in the 4th power setting or throttle. You should just use the throttle for bursts of power as that will give you the best effect and save the mountain mode to use on long hills...
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Old 05-12-15, 10:54 AM
  #48  
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My twist throttle does have variable speed but wasn't aware the thumb throttle doesn't have it.
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Old 05-12-15, 06:46 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by 350htrr
My thumb throttle is basically on or off hard to control anything in between, I suspect the twist throttle is better that way.



The mountain mode as I understand it is more for saving the battery and lowering the heat buildup in the motor by changing the parameters of the cycle pulse for long hills... On mine I actually have a bit less assistance in mountain mode than in the 4th power setting or throttle. You should just use the throttle for bursts of power as that will give you the best effect and save the mountain mode to use on long hills...
The thumb throttle on the BionX is variable, but the travel is so small you have to concentrate on not not pushing it all the way in. I have had decent luck puttoin the base of my thumb pad against the bar and then pushing ht ebutton down a little at a time as I ride, works out pretty well.

I didn't know (still don't) know what the mountain mode is aside from what my dealer told me. Ill have to do some research.
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Old 05-12-15, 10:47 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by vincent713
I love the looks of the Easy Motion off road bike! I just wish it came with throttle mode.
As I noted above, mine does have a throttle.
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