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Disc brakes are now the default on road bikes – and no one cares

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Disc brakes are now the default on road bikes – and no one cares

Old 02-23-20, 06:16 PM
  #151  
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
Okay, I'll ask the obvious question: Why do you need 6 sets of wheels for your trainer?
I have 3 bikes with 11 speed cassettes. Any of those 3 may be on the trainer and two of the bikes have a spare set of wheels that may be in use. That’s 5 sets and my wife rides the trainer, too. That’s 6 sets.
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Old 02-23-20, 10:24 PM
  #152  
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Originally Posted by noodle soup View Post
That kinda sucks.

I'm surprised you couldn't find a local dealer that serviced CK hubs. The shops I've worked at that were CK dealers, all had the tools/experience needed to service their hubs. CK recommends 6-12 month service intervals, but those seem to err on the side of caution.
Of the 4 shops I worked in 3 were CK dealers but only one had the tools and never needed them. I bought the tools after moving for grad school and in the next 7 or 8 years only used them once on a customer's bike and only cause he wanted them completely stripped. Otherwise a pen knife or small pick is used to pull out the seals, spray them with some degreaser, dry, regrease and reinstall the seals. 20 years later I just rebuilt a hub with its 4th rim and will rebuild the front next month and its never needed the special tools. It'll be interesting with disc to see if rims can outlast the hubs without having rim brakes wearing through sidewalls
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Old 02-23-20, 10:45 PM
  #153  
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene View Post
Is there such a thing as cassette shims, exactly to address this?

It takes a couple of minutes to cut a shim from a beer can with scissors- ~.1mm.

My two primary bikes (road & CX) each run 3 or 4 wheelsets, each with it's own cassette, and they all swap without adjustment.

The brake lever position may be a little different due to rim width, but not enough to need any work.

It's not a big deal.
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Old 02-24-20, 05:32 AM
  #154  
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Originally Posted by Trsnrtr View Post
I have 3 bikes with 11 speed cassettes. Any of those 3 may be on the trainer and two of the bikes have a spare set of wheels that may be in use. That’s 5 sets and my wife rides the trainer, too. That’s 6 sets.
Didn't you mention that it was direct drive trainer? (which typically I think means the wheel is off)
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Old 02-24-20, 05:33 AM
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Originally Posted by woodcraft View Post
It takes a couple of minutes to cut a shim from a beer can with scissors- ~.1mm.

My two primary bikes (road & CX) each run 3 or 4 wheelsets, each with it's own cassette, and they all swap without adjustment.

The brake lever position may be a little different due to rim width, but not enough to need any work.

It's not a big deal.
Cool, thanks
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Old 02-24-20, 07:35 AM
  #156  
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene View Post
Didn't you mention that it was direct drive trainer? (which typically I think means the wheel is off)
Yes, that means the direct drive cassette is shimmed the same as all of the wheels so I guess that makes 7.

All of the wheels can be interchanged on all of the bikes AND the trainer with no rear derailleur adjustments.
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Old 02-24-20, 09:38 AM
  #157  
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Originally Posted by Psimet2001 View Post
Again - there's the issue. I think it just might be hard for people to understand who don't live in places like the majority of the country - The longest "descent" any of us sees during a season is 1 minute or less and that's if we go up to Wisconsin and descend some actual hills. Otherwise it's the 15 seconds down the other side of the highway overpass.
That sounds horrible. 20 mins descending at 45+mph is so much fun!!
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Old 02-24-20, 09:58 AM
  #158  
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Originally Posted by Rides4Beer View Post
20 mins descending at 45+mph is so much fun!!
You'd love Mt. Lemmon.

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Old 02-24-20, 10:07 AM
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I haven't read any posts on this thread except the last page, but just wanted to add that I own a disc brake Emonda sl6 and had a 2009 Madone before that (rim brake). After owning and riding both I can say that my next bike will be rim brake. Specifically a Canyon Ultimate cf slx 8.0 Di2. In my opinion disc brakes are great, but totally unneccessary for road bikes. They are heavier, more expensive, there is a 100% chance they will rub at some point and it will happen more than once, and in my opinion they look bad on a road bike. They do stop better than rim brakes though I guess.
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Old 02-24-20, 10:24 AM
  #160  
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Originally Posted by noodle soup View Post
You'd love Mt. Lemmon.
That looks awesome!! I'll be doing Mt Mitchell for the first time this spring, looks similar, about a 30 mile descent with 5k+ ft of elevation drop (couple of small climbs on the way down, but still looks like a lot of fun!).

They didn't put any music to it, so all you hear is wind, and a few shouts of "yeah!!" and "yee-haw!!". (also, he must not have disc brakes, because when they're hitting the blue ridge parkway around 6:40 he mentions his hands hurting from braking )

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Old 02-24-20, 10:25 AM
  #161  
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Originally Posted by BonkonFleet View Post
They do stop better than rim brakes though I guess.
Which some people might even say is the whole purpose of brakes.
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Old 02-24-20, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Rides4Beer View Post
Which some people might even say is the whole purpose of brakes.
I should say they are a better braking system but not so good that it negates everything negative I said about them.
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Old 02-24-20, 10:34 AM
  #163  
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Originally Posted by noodle soup View Post
At least it's possible to set the discs to line up with shims.

Cassette alignment is hit or miss when swapping between brands, and there's not much you can do about it. I suppose you could file the freehub body to make everything align perfectly.
You can use the same shimming on the cassette to achieve the same but yeah if brand change their shifting can be slightly different. I have done it maybe once in 30 years.
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Old 02-24-20, 10:38 AM
  #164  
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Originally Posted by BonkonFleet View Post
I should say they are a better braking system but not so good that it negates everything negative I said about them.
For me it's more about consistency and being able to run carbon wheels more safely. At 215ish pounds total system weight, there's no way I'm doing the descents posted above on rim brakes. Plus, I think they look better, but aesthetics are always a very personal thing.
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Old 02-24-20, 10:39 AM
  #165  
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Originally Posted by BonkonFleet View Post
They are heavier, more expensive, there is a 100% chance they will rub at some point and it will happen more than once.
They are heavier, but losing 6 ounces of weight won't make me any faster.

They are more expensive, but I can afford them

"there is a 100% chance they will rub at some point and it will happen more than once". I haven't had this problem, but I only have 22k miles on mine.
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Old 02-24-20, 10:41 AM
  #166  
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Originally Posted by DiabloScott View Post
My regular road ride includes a 30 minute descent



I don't feel any need for disc brakes, and don't have a need for the latest and greatest, and don't need a new bike. But if I were shopping for a new road bike I'd probably get discs because it's the new standard and I don't care.
Looks like fun. I feel you are very fortunate. There are times I would give just about anything to ride a long descent. Enjoy!
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Old 02-24-20, 10:42 AM
  #167  
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Here is a long descent you guys might like, Hwy 38 from Onyx Summit to Redlands. It's about 35 miles with a 1 mile climb in the middle.

edit, I don't remember using the brakes much there.
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Old 02-24-20, 10:45 AM
  #168  
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Originally Posted by Psimet2001 View Post
You can use the same shimming on the cassette to achieve the same but yeah if brand change their shifting can be slightly different. I have done it maybe once in 30 years.
Do you have any experience with these shims?

https://www.amazon.com/0-25mm-Zipp-F.../dp/B0063HMR6O

Are the an internal spacer, or do they slide over the freehub body(like Shimano 10spd 1mm spacers)?
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Old 02-24-20, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Russ Roth View Post
Of the 4 shops I worked in 3 were CK dealers but only one had the tools and never needed them. I bought the tools after moving for grad school and in the next 7 or 8 years only used them once on a customer's bike and only cause he wanted them completely stripped. Otherwise a pen knife or small pick is used to pull out the seals, spray them with some degreaser, dry, regrease and reinstall the seals. 20 years later I just rebuilt a hub with its 4th rim and will rebuild the front next month and its never needed the special tools. It'll be interesting with disc to see if rims can outlast the hubs without having rim brakes wearing through sidewalls
I bought all the tools the second I opened a direct account with them. I have sold quite a few CK hubs over the years. If you dig hard enough you will find tons of threads on here from WAY back where I did nothing but talk smack about how pretentious CK is/was regarding headsets, etc. ehhh... We grow and learn. I honestly think CK would have been sunk if they had kept on Chris's singular retro grouch mission to destroy the company. I am glad they are now making better and relevant products.

That said I have had to call on the tools more than once. The amount of money that you can charge for a CK service makes them worth buying them if you are a shop and a dealer. If you are a rider who does your own maintenance then .... I can see buying them just because you want them but it's a bit like buying a paint booth for your house so you can re-paint 1 door panel for a car you won't have for much longer.

You can indeed get away with not having all of the tools if you want to do some basic maintenance but that's also like saying you can change spark plugs with an adjustable wrench and a hammer.

My video on how they work was really just meant to create a video that might help more people know about us but has reached 69k views and at one point Chris King was monitoring the comments section.
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Old 02-24-20, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by noodle soup View Post
Do you have any experience with these shims?

https://www.amazon.com/0-25mm-Zipp-F.../dp/B0063HMR6O

Are the an internal spacer, or do they slide over the freehub body(like Shimano 10spd 1mm spacers)?
I don't have experience with them. They should just slide over the outside. I used to get my own rough shims and grind the ID to fit and/or split the ring (did that for rotor shims when they weren't available).

Side note - Talked to Boyd 2 weeks ago when he was in town. We briefly talked about shimming. He has some made for him/buys them and has them available. I looked at getting a tool done to punch is as Leah's husband owns a metal stamping company. He said, "eh...don't"
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Old 02-24-20, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by noodle soup View Post
You'd love Mt. Lemmon.

https://youtu.be/ubwD5gtUPsg
Not watching as I don't want to get a bad case of FOMO but groups from our team will go out there and ride Lemmon usually once a year or so. I want to say they are planning Mayorca (?) this year but I stopped paying attention as I can't afford it and don't have the time. Sooo many people from here talk about Lemmon all the time. It's weird. It almost feels like a local climb.

aham23 moved out there. My parents have a place up the road in Scottsdale. Leah and a handful of riders are leaving today to mtb ride on the west side of Phoenix. Arizona: The midwest's current version of Florida.
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Old 02-24-20, 10:58 AM
  #172  
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Originally Posted by Psimet2001 View Post
Side note - Talked to Boyd 2 weeks ago when he was in town. We briefly talked about shimming. He has some made for him/buys them and has them available.
Those Boyd spacer seem a little pricey (4 for $12), but they do make the job stupid easy.
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Old 02-24-20, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by BonkonFleet View Post
I haven't read any posts on this thread except the last page, but just wanted to add that I own a disc brake Emonda sl6 and had a 2009 Madone before that (rim brake). After owning and riding both I can say that my next bike will be rim brake. Specifically a Canyon Ultimate cf slx 8.0 Di2. In my opinion disc brakes are great, but totally unneccessary for road bikes. They are heavier, more expensive, there is a 100% chance they will rub at some point and it will happen more than once, and in my opinion they look bad on a road bike. They do stop better than rim brakes though I guess.
^This....
....This is what makes the issue. Those of us with experience on disc will tell people that say this, "Oh the rubbing is fine it doesn't actually slow you down just makes a noise. Here let me press the pistons back for you and that will all go away. See."

but you can't tell a roadie that something making noise because of touching something rotating on a wheel is fine. It will drive a roadie nuts.

I have said this in a few places, including to engineers at SRAM and no one seems to be interested but road calipers need to be a dual acting system. Low pressure, fast/longer stoke in until contact, then switch to high pressure circuit for braking. Yes, I worked at a hydraulics company for years and spent more than my fair share of time making and designing hydraulic circuits but I totally forget how to achieve this but I believe it was just different reservoir/passage sizes and check/or weighted valves. This would allows road disc pads to retract and GTFO out of the way when not being used. It would stop pad rub as well.
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Old 02-24-20, 11:04 AM
  #174  
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Originally Posted by noodle soup View Post
You'd love Mt. Lemmon.

https://youtu.be/ubwD5gtUPsg
The climb is fun, but the descent is an absolute hoot!

Is the sheriff still up there that likes to hassle anyone on two wheels (he used to be as bad with bicycles as motorcycles)?
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Old 02-24-20, 11:27 AM
  #175  
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Originally Posted by Psimet2001 View Post
Leah and a handful of riders are leaving today to mtb ride on the west side of Phoenix. Arizona: The midwest's current version of Florida.
What race is that? Not the Cactus Cup.

(edit) Now I see you said "ride". I read it as "race".
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