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Disc brakes are now the default on road bikes – and no one cares

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Disc brakes are now the default on road bikes – and no one cares

Old 02-25-20, 10:56 AM
  #251  
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Originally Posted by Russ Roth View Post
...When V-brakes came out suddenly so did braces because they could apply enough leverage to a rim that the frames would flex, not an issue with cantis because they weren't capable of that much stopping power, none of them were...
Haven't had a good v-brake vs. canti argument in a few years. I'll recap for those of you who may have missed it. Cantis work better than v-brakes if you know how to set them up properly. V-brakes were designed by an accountant and a lawyer to make something cheap and idiot-proof. Just an accident that they're so ugly. I still have cantis on a bunch of bikes including my tandem and they provide perfectly adequate stopping power.
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Old 02-25-20, 11:10 AM
  #252  
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Originally Posted by noodle soup View Post
Looks are most important according to edscott.

Many people that say that in magazines and forums, have never even tried them. When properly adjusted, they aren't awful
I try to aspire to more than "aren`t awful" in my braking system. I hade a pair of those brakes and even in their day they were terrible and when compared to current technology they were one step up from my old CCM with a coaster brake.
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Old 02-25-20, 11:12 AM
  #253  
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Originally Posted by edscott. View Post
Disc brakes are just plain ugly. Rim brakes can be just as good or even better in performance, for example, Campagnolo Chorus to Super Record.
Aesthetics are purely personal, but discs with integrated hoses look waaaaay better than rim brakes, imo. The discs/calipers become part of the system and look like they belong there, instead of rim brakes looking like they were an afterthought, just bolted on after the bike was designed.

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Old 02-25-20, 11:20 AM
  #254  
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Originally Posted by Notso_fastLane View Post
Hadn't thought of this. My bikes are a ~2010 and 2014 model. I don't notice any issues with the cables/housing in any of the components. Have they changed enough, in your opinion, in this time frame to warrant looking at replacing brake and/or shifter cables?
2010-2014 would fall under "modern" for the purposes of my statement. I'm talking older stuff - the cables, housings, and pads that would have come with Weinmann, Mafac, and other brake systems long ago.
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Old 02-25-20, 11:29 AM
  #255  
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Originally Posted by Rides4Beer View Post
Aesthetics are purely personal, but discs with integrated hoses look waaaaay better than rim brakes, imo. The discs/calipers become part of the system and look like they belong there, instead of rim brakes looking like they were an afterthought, just bolted on after the bike was designed.
Definitely a personal choice - Disc are ugly and barbaric looking on a road bike. It's the rotors more than anything although the calipers always look like a piled up aluminum turd that got slapped on top of some nice carbon. They look better than they did for sure and we will get used to them but 100% for me they are ugly and will always stand out.

I want to ride road...not shred the gnar on some wicked trails. It's like throwing a pair of big knobbies on there as well. Of course that's also all the rage these day. Meh... back to work.
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Old 02-25-20, 11:30 AM
  #256  
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Originally Posted by noodle soup View Post
Apparently you've never tried disc brakes.

All rim brakes are ugly, with the exception of Campagnolo C-Record.

Sexiest looking brake that never worked.
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Old 02-25-20, 11:30 AM
  #257  
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Originally Posted by Notso_fastLane View Post
Hadn't thought of this. My bikes are a ~2010 and 2014 model. I don't notice any issues with the cables/housing in any of the components. Have they changed enough, in your opinion, in this time frame to warrant looking at replacing brake and/or shifter cables?
They're good to change every few years due to the slow degradation they go through from general wear and the elements, you don't realize how much you lost till you replace decade old housing. Not really new but the newer, stiffer brake housing that looks a bit like shifter housing will also help with stopping.

Originally Posted by Rides4Beer View Post
Aesthetics are purely personal, but discs with integrated hoses look waaaaay better than rim brakes, imo. The discs/calipers become part of the system and look like they belong there, instead of rim brakes looking like they were an afterthought, just bolted on after the bike was designed.
Pish posh, obviously it looks awful just due to those fat carbon tubes. /sarcasm
Sweet bike and without that brake track breaking up the aesthetics of the rim the wheels look better as well. Hmm, so better stopping and looking integrated into a well designed and thought out bike, just looks terrible, and now I want one.
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Old 02-25-20, 11:51 AM
  #258  
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Originally Posted by velopig View Post
I try to aspire to more than "aren`t awful" in my braking system. I hade a pair of those brakes and even in their day they were terrible and when compared to current technology they were one step up from my old CCM with a coaster brake.
I agree that they don't work great, but that's not important to some people. Some people also think rim brakes work as well as discs.
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Old 02-25-20, 11:57 AM
  #259  
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Originally Posted by Psimet2001 View Post
Definitely a personal choice - Disc are ugly and barbaric looking on a road bike. It's the rotors more than anything although the calipers always look like a piled up aluminum turd that got slapped on top of some nice carbon. They look better than they did for sure and we will get used to them but 100% for me they are ugly and will always stand out.

I want to ride road...not shred the gnar on some wicked trails. It's like throwing a pair of big knobbies on there as well. Of course that's also all the rage these day. Meh... back to work.
Some rotors are pretty hideous, I'll give you that, like the Ultegra/DA rotors with the fins, bleh. I like the RT81 rotors, clean and simple design, and they work well. I have them on the gravel bike and will be putting them on the new wheels for the road bike.

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Old 02-25-20, 11:58 AM
  #260  
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Originally Posted by Rides4Beer View Post
Aesthetics are purely personal, but discs with integrated hoses look waaaaay better than rim brakes, imo. The discs/calipers become part of the system and look like they belong there, instead of rim brakes looking like they were an afterthought, just bolted on after the bike was designed.

Every word of this. Plus, nice bike!
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Old 02-25-20, 12:05 PM
  #261  
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Originally Posted by Russ Roth View Post
Pish posh, obviously it looks awful just due to those fat carbon tubes. /sarcasm
Sweet bike and without that brake track breaking up the aesthetics of the rim the wheels look better as well. Hmm, so better stopping and looking integrated into a well designed and thought out bike, just looks terrible, and now I want one.
Agreed, just horrible, what were those designers thinking?? (go get one )

Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
Every word of this. Plus, nice bike!
Thanks, I'm loving it!!
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Old 02-25-20, 12:09 PM
  #262  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
Sounds pretty nefarious

I'd say it's something where the degree of nefariousness is a matter of perspective.

First, the ALR was introduced in 2016 model year, not 2015, so maybe you're referencing that.
That's why I wrote "from 2015", not "model year 2015." My Emonda ALR 5 is indeed a model-year-2016 bicycle, but I purchased it in August 2015.

Also, the revision a couple years later introduced direct mount brakes, so I wouldn't assume that everything else was the same
I wasn't saying that everything else was the same. They also tweaked the frameset's aesthetics, and added ports for partial internal routing. But there's no question that it got heavier beyond what the obvious considerations explain. For instance, direct-mount brakes typically should not add weight, since they eliminate the brake's backing plate.

and they just snuck in an alloy steerer to screw over the rim brakers. And, FWIW, I don't see an rim brake 2020 ALR 5 being offered in the US, but the frameset does have a full carbon fork/steerer, as does the disc frameset.
For the 2020 model year, the sales of the rim-brake ALR 5 were removed from the US catalog, but it still exists internationally. The standalone rim-brake frameset has a carbon steerer, but the variant used in the ALR 5 build does not.

This isn't a new tactic for Trek: in the 2016 model year, the Emonda ALR 4 had an aluminum steerer, while all other variants of the ALR used a carbon steerer. That feature trickled upwards.

Originally Posted by zacster View Post
Are you sure about that? I'd like that to be true but I highly doubt the weight of the disc brake system is more than the weight differential of the steel vs. carbon even for the lightest steel.
I was making a cheap quip, In this particular instance there are likely other contributing factors. (But, the lightest steel is probably lighter than you think.)
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Old 02-25-20, 12:24 PM
  #263  
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The profit maximizing strategy for the major manufacturers is to promote disk brakes so everyone thinks they have to buy a new complete bike instead of upgrading components on their old frame. Sounds like that's been happening over the past couple of years, so apparently they've been pretty successful with that campaign. A logical part of that marketing strategy would be to make the weight penalty for disk brakes seem smaller than it really is, since that would be the last thing preventing the weight-weenies from making the switch. These claims of a 200g difference are simply not credible. Plenty of easy places to hide a few hundred grams on a complete bike to make the rim brake version heavier than it needs to be. You could probably find a few hundred in published vs. actual alone. There are plenty of advantages to disk brakes, but weight isn't one of them.
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Old 02-25-20, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by kingston View Post
There are plenty of advantages to disk brakes, but weight isn't one of them.
Who's claiming that discs have a weight advantage?
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Old 02-25-20, 12:46 PM
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I don't think people are spending thousands of hard earned dollars on disc brake road bikes just because Big Bike made them available, or got some kind of serum into the water supply.
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Old 02-25-20, 12:47 PM
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Don't most cargo bikes and heavier pedal vehicles (like my velo) use drums? Is that just a low maintenance thing, or do drums have a higher heat sink effect so can stop more weight?
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Old 02-25-20, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by noodle soup View Post
Who's claiming that discs have a weight advantage?
Nobody. A couple of people claimed that the difference is only 200g, which is not credible unless the marketers have their thumb on the scale of the rim-brake bike.
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Old 02-25-20, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by kingston View Post
Nobody. A couple of people claimed that the difference is only 200g, which is not credible unless the marketers have their thumb on the scale of the rim-brake bike.
The difference in my 2015 model bike is 373g. This was measured at the shop using a Park DS-1
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Old 02-25-20, 01:01 PM
  #269  
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Originally Posted by Psimet2001 View Post
Definitely a personal choice - Disc are ugly and barbaric looking on a road bike. It's the rotors more than anything although the calipers always look like a piled up aluminum turd that got slapped on top of some nice carbon. They look better than they did for sure and we will get used to them but 100% for me they are ugly and will always stand out.

I want to ride road...not shred the gnar on some wicked trails. It's like throwing a pair of big knobbies on there as well. Of course that's also all the rage these day. Meh... back to work.

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Old 02-25-20, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
I don't think people are spending thousands of hard earned dollars on disc brake road bikes just because Big Bike made them available, or got some kind of serum into the water supply.
Nope, for me it was one of those "you don't know until you know" kind of things. I was getting by ok on my rim brakes (had a few scary moments, but never died), until I got my gravel bike with hydraulic discs, and I was sold pretty much instantly. For me, and the riding I do, discs are absolutely better, and I will never go back.
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Old 02-25-20, 01:11 PM
  #271  
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
I don't think people are spending thousands of hard earned dollars on disc brake road bikes just because Big Bike made them available, or got some kind of serum into the water supply.
Keep telling yourself that. Years ago, when I was about to order my fly, custom ti ride, I caught Big Bike trying roofie my drink. I am still riding rim brakes to this day.
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Old 02-25-20, 01:25 PM
  #272  
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A lot of brands now offer mostly disc brakes equipped bikes, in prebuilt form, so it's not like you have much choice if you want a prebuilt rim brake bike. Trek offers a very few rim brake bikes.
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Old 02-25-20, 01:27 PM
  #273  
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Originally Posted by noodle soup View Post
The difference in my 2015 model bike is 373g. This was measured at the shop using a Park DS-1
I don't doubt anyone's ability to weigh two things and compare the difference. I'm skeptical when the difference is too small that the rim brake bike was as light as it could have been for the same money as the disk bike.
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Old 02-25-20, 01:34 PM
  #274  
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Originally Posted by kingston View Post
I don't doubt anyone's ability to weigh two things and compare the difference. I'm skeptical when the difference is too small that the rim brake bike was as light as it could have been for the same money as the disk bike.
the thing about the weight difference is that I don't give a **** about the weight, if it's a pound or less. The performance difference is huge, and my CF rims are no longer a consumable.
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Old 02-25-20, 01:38 PM
  #275  
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. (But, the lightest steel is probably lighter than you think.)
I think a light steel frame could be close to 3 pounds in a bigger size. My steel frame Gunnar (62cm, OX Platinum) is about 4 pounds.

Maybe some stainless could get lower than 3, IDK.
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