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Speed sensor recommendations please

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Speed sensor recommendations please

Old 05-02-20, 03:22 PM
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Speed sensor recommendations please

Apologies if this has been beat to death already. Though I like gadgets my bikes are all vintage steel and I usually hang out in the C&V when on BF. So if this has been discussed before I wouldn't know.

My sweetie (i.e. wife of 41 years) won't let me ride these days but we have a CycleOps trainer so I've been putting in indoor miles even after the snow around here disappeared. I've been thinking of how I'd run a terrain app like Rouvy or Zwift on my TV. I can connect my laptop to the TV via HDMI so getting the visuals up is not a problem. I don't need the smart-trainer feature of pedal resistance magically varying with virtual terrain. So I think the only hardware I need is a speed sensor on the rear wheel of whichever vintage bike I choose to mount on the trainer.

This is all new to me but it seems like a really neat idea. The only problem is, when I look up speed sensors on Ye Ol' Internet, I get very discouraging reports. Sensor's don't always work or aren't compatible with such and such or if they are compatible no one says so.

Do any of you have any recommendations of what works and is compatible with those software packages? My new computer with Windows 10 does Bluetooth, but I'd need a dongle to use ANT+.. I'd just as soon not spend money unnecessarily, but money spent on something that doesn't work is money wasted entirely!

Thanks!
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Old 05-02-20, 03:44 PM
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Garmin Speed Sensor 2 and Wahoo RPM Speed Sensor both support Bluetooth and ANT+.
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Old 05-03-20, 12:48 AM
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I've had no problems with a couple of low priced speed/cadence sensors, whether on the trainer or riding outdoors.

Regarding Bluetooth vs ANT+, the main advantage to ANT+ is transmitting data to more than one receiver device. Handy for folks who work with a coach or record to both a bike computer and phone, or laptop and other device. Bluetooth reportedly is easier to make connections and has a faster signal. In actual practice I don't notice much difference. My apps usually slow down the process of pairing Bluetooth sensors, while my ANT+ sensors are picked up almost immediately by my phone and bike computer.

XOSS: Among the least expensive of the earth induction sensors that don't require a magnet on the crank arm (cadence) or chainstay (speed). These are switchable between speed and cadence by removing an re-inserting the battery while watching LED light colors indicate the mode. These are Bluetooth/ANT+. Some bike computers and phones allow choosing between the wireless protocols (assuming ANT+ compatibility). My XOSS G+ computer appears to choose automatically. Works fine with both Bluetooth and ANT+ sensors.

Older Wahoo Bike Pack (if you can still find one). These were made around 2012 for the iPhone 3, 4 and 4s and included a case that added ANT+ capability to convert a phone to a proper bike computer with the Wahoo Fitness app. Obsolete now, but not bad even by today's standards. With the right app (Cyclemeter was better than Wahoo Fitness) it would do everything a bike computer can do... but in a bulky, heavy package with a battery that would last only a couple of hours of continuous use with the display running. I still use it but only for indoor trainer sessions.

But I still suggest it -- if you can find one -- because they included an excellent speed and cadence sensor, wired together, and magnets for the crank arm and chainstay. ANT+ only but works fine with my XOSS computer. And the entire kits cost me about $10 apiece, including the case for the iPhone, mount, etc. Those are good sensors for only ten bucks, even if you never use the other stuff. I bought two, in 2018 while recovering from injuries, and another in January for a second road bike.

But if your budget stretches to around $50, you can buy some excellent sensors from Garmin or Wahoo.
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Old 05-03-20, 05:21 PM
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Garmin cadence/speed sensor 2 worked flawlessly for me.
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Old 05-14-20, 08:08 AM
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Wondering the same. Following
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Old 05-14-20, 10:00 AM
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I (actually my wife) ended up ordering a Wahoo set of speed and cadence sensors. I've tried them with Rouvy Workouts, Rouvy AR, and Zwift apps on my Android phonevia Bluetooth with some success. I intend to try the apps on my computer. Details at 11...
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Old 05-15-20, 05:27 AM
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So far... This is more a comment on the various apps than the sensors. The sensors seem to work. The speed sensor is easy to install on or remove from a traditional hub. The cadence sensor wants to be installed on a crank arm, pedal, or shoe. It comes with three attachment possibilities, either a sticky pad, a soft holder for zip ties (included), or a plastic holder through which you can run a strap. I want to be able to move it between bikes so only the last option would work. I found an elastic strap with Velcro which works nicely to hold the sensor on the inside of the non-DS crank arm. Straight out of the box one of them (I forget which) showed only 47% battery life but it appears to take a button battery which should be replaceable.

The Wahoo app picks up the sensors and shows cadence, speed, and a few other numbers on a static display.

The Rouvy Workouts app identifies both sensors but works only with the cadence sensor. If I pair with both the app doesn't work.. The visuals are lovely. Numbers like speed onscreen are a bit hard to read but I haven't tried it under ideal conditions yet. I tried it on my Android phone and my Windows 10 computer. Same result.

The Rouvy AR app won't pair to a speed sensor, says "Coming soon". The cadence sensor would pair and report cadence for a few seconds, then show zero, then show cadence, then show zero. The app seemed to think the sensor wasn't working because it just wouldn't run. In other words, that's a no-go for the app. I tried it on my Android phone and my Windows 10 computer. Same result.

The Zwift app let me pair to either sensor or both, but it works only with the speed sensor. It reads data from only one, and if I let that be the cadence sensor the app thinks I'm not moving. Otherwise it works great. Lots of feedback, easy to read numbers (mostly). The visuals are computer-generate, look like cartoon features but are real enough. The sheer number of other cyclists, especially those who passed me, are an incentive to pedal harder. So the psychological effect is real, so far. My sweetie asked me to put her solo bike on the trainer and she pedaled hard for 30 minutes, mostly focused on the power number.

I may end up keeping the speed sensor on her bike and the cadence sensor on mine, just for convenience. So far it has been a successful experience.
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Old 05-15-20, 09:43 AM
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The Wahoo RPM cadence sensor has a limitation where it stops reporting cadence when it drops lower than about 60 rpm. How fast are you pedaling when you see it reporting 0?
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Old 05-16-20, 05:02 AM
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Originally Posted by surak
The Wahoo RPM cadence sensor has a limitation where it stops reporting cadence when it drops lower than about 60 rpm. How fast are you pedaling when you see it reporting 0?
I was not aware that was a known limitation. It was never mentioned in any of the reviews I saw. However my cadence is typically around 90 to 110. Just getting it to pair means getting on the bike, spinning, getting off the bike to click a button on the computer, getting on the bike to spin, getting off the bike again, getting on the bike again, giving up and switching to Zwift. I could run Rouvy on my phone but then I don't get the big-TV-screen experience. Still experimenting.
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Old 05-16-20, 06:27 AM
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Originally Posted by surak
The Wahoo RPM cadence sensor has a limitation where it stops reporting cadence when it drops lower than about 60 rpm. How fast are you pedaling when you see it reporting 0?
Can you point to a citation of this limitation?
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Old 05-16-20, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by surak
The Wahoo RPM cadence sensor has a limitation where it stops reporting cadence when it drops lower than about 60 rpm. How fast are you pedaling when you see it reporting 0?
Not sure where you read that but I often do slow rides with my wife and other friends at speeds of around 10-12 mph at cadences around 40. I've never seen the RPM on my Bolt register 0 while pedaling at any cadence.
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Old 05-16-20, 09:19 AM
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Not 60, but definitely others reporting lower cadences will drop to zero. Seems to vary, for me it happens in the 50s but I rarely pedal at that low cadence so it's a non-issue.

https://www.bikeforums.net/20418742-post17.html
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Old 05-16-20, 02:37 PM
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Here is today's ride report. I set up the trainer outdoors and decided to run my phone instead of dragging my laptop outside. I first tried the Rouvy AR app but it had the same problem as before, reporting my cadence as 89, 90, 89, 0, 88, 90, 91, 90, 0, 89, 90, 0, etc. So I gave up and tried the Rouvy Workouts app. After telling me that the AR routes would not be supported on that app for much longer it ran fine.

I spent 30 minutes on a training ride up some route named Passa Vala-something-or-other. It looked like Franconia Notch in New Hampshire, quite lovely. I was passed by a few riders, passed a few who were stopped. The grade was showing 6.5 to 7%. Of course the load with a non-smart trainer is determined by whatever gear I select but an app reading the speed sensor and knowing the drag vs. speed curve of the trainer type would calculate power and compute my speed up the grade from that. It had me going between 3.4 and 5mph most of the time.

Now, I've been up grades like that many times, have climbed Cadillac Mountain in Acadia National Park on ten different vintage bikes. That's a 3.3 mile run that climbs 1000 ft. With a little bit being flat at the bottom and top the climb computes out to an average of 6.5 to 7%, with occasional pitches at 10%. So I know what a grade like that feels like and how fast I can go. The Rouvy app showed me running between 3.5 and 4.5mph, not bad, probably a bit low but close enough! This ride was 7.36 miles, if I remember right, and I did only about 1/4 of it. (We had done a bit of jogging on our morning walk, and until this week my 71 y.o. legs haven't done much running in a long time.) The virtual riding experience really challenged me to push harder, much like real life. Unlike real life, on a Rouvy ride I can stop without having to walk back to the car.

A curious feature was a number displayed in the the upper left corner labeled Z1. It may have been a power number though it didn't quite match the power values Zwift was showing for me yesterday. Of course they might not be directly comparable. The curious feature was that I could shift down to lessen the physical load of my pedals while keeping the cadence the same, and this number would drop. Waitaminute! If the speed sensor is not connected and the app is reading only cadence how would it know I shifted to change the loading??? I tried this quite a few times and both the apparent speed and that Z1 number reflected the gear I was running. It continued to report my cadence accurately. Apparently it was detecting wheel speed anyway even though it wasn't saying so. Whatever...it was a nice riding experience. I hope when I connect tomorrow that I can find the same ride and pick up where I left off. That kind of navigation is not obvious in either the Swift or the Rouvy apps. I have some miles to go on that training run and I'd like to finish it!
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Old 05-19-20, 04:49 AM
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Well, I don't know if any of you are still interested and I am about done with this subject myself. So I'll write this last note and then go back to my usual haunt in BF.

I have had technical trouble getting either of the Rouvy apps to run on my laptop. The Workouts app runs on my phone but with some technical peculiarities. I've had several email exchanges with their "technical support" and received three replies. All three notes were short and devoid of technical content, seemingly written by someone looking for a reason not to have to answer or by someone following a work directive "just look it up in our online tutorials and don't bother the programmers with questions". The second note asked a question that I had already answered in the note it was replying to. It was clear that whoever responded hadn't bothered to read my note. Today's one sentence reply was about as pertinent as telling me I need red tires. Very disappointing.

On the other hand, Zwift has worked marvelously so far. There is much I haven't explored yet.
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Old 05-27-20, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by jimmuller
Well, I don't know if any of you are still interested...
I still don't know if any of you are still interested. But there are some good developments. About Rouvy, I decided the main reason I didn't get a decent technical answer from them is that their native language is probably Czech. I did receive a follow-up response, not terribly enlightening but at least it showed more interest. I may still consider their app.

My sweetie, which is to say my wife of 41 years, has been enjoying riding Zwift, finding the course details and other riders to be quite a motivator. But she really wanted to see her cadence along with power. So I decided the problem with reading the Yahoo cadence sensor is that Bluetooth is a limiting factor. So I ordered a not-terribly expensive ANT+ dongle with 3ft USB extension cable from some online seller. (I suppose ANT+ dongle could be pronounced ANT 'nd'uncle seein' as how it does have the "and" between the ANT and the "d'ungle".) Anyway, we rode it today, works like a charm. Zwift identifies the cadence sensor as either Bluetooth or ANT+, so I connected to the ANT+ entry and lo! both speed and cadence showed up. 'Zactly like it was supposed to.

My sweetie just upper her FTP after pedaling at 90rpm for 45 minutes!
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Old 06-01-20, 06:43 PM
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I'm still interested, and good story, well told.
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Old 06-02-20, 11:39 AM
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Garmin Speed 2 should work out-of-the box with most phones/computers. In addition to providing real-time signal, the sensor stores 300 hours of data. So you'll get an activity record even if you forget to bring your phone/computer.
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Old 06-02-20, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by noglider
I'm still interested, and good story, well told.
Thanks, Tom.
We have been riding maybe two out of every three days and enjoying the experience. I did a lap of the UCI Richmond course. (That's my hometown.) My youngest brother has been following bike racing for some years and got to watch the world championship in Richmond a few years ago. I recognized many of the landmarks but I see Zwift changed the statues along Monument Avenue to statues of people on bikes. The toughest part was climbing the 25% grade up Chimborazo Hill from the James River, cobblestone and all. I've also ridden around London. The other riders, shown in real time, provide lots of psychological motivation. It isn't quite like a real ride but these days it is a lot safer.
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Old 06-04-20, 11:46 AM
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Zwift sounded silly to me but now that I've seen screenshots and heard descriptions, it doesn't any more.

Lucky for me I'm able to ride outside very safely. I'm in Upstate NY where the scenery is gorgeous, and the weather has been superb. It's very uncrowded here.
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