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Maintenance after submersion

Old 08-05-20, 10:49 AM
  #1  
cprobertson1
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Maintenance after submersion

So, to avoid a seven mile detour, I may have cycled my crosstrek through a lot of water. Most of it was 6 inches deep, a few bits were a foot deep, and the worst parts were right over the top of my 700c (2ft diameter) wheels. Don't worry - all on flat ground, no currents. Dumb, yes, but not terribly dangerous.

The question is, how much of an overhaul does she need?

Entire drivetrain and cranks need a deep clean and oiling for sure - but what about the hubs? Is anything else needing dismantled do you think?

Ps, tomorrow I'll be taking the detour and not pretending I'm a submarine. Awooooga! Dive! Dive! Dive!
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Old 08-05-20, 11:02 AM
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I would disassemble it and give it a good wash and clean. Just be glad it wasn't salt water.
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Old 08-05-20, 11:05 AM
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Best?

Complete & total overhaul is Best.

Every one asks about what is best?





...

Last edited by fietsbob; 08-05-20 at 11:25 AM.
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Old 08-05-20, 11:12 AM
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Perfect excuse to buy a new bike.
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Old 08-05-20, 11:12 AM
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I'll be a bit of a contrarian here.

You should pull out the seatpost and turn the bike upside down, in case there is water in the frame. Even if nothing comes out, I would leave it in a sunny area (w/out seatpost) for a couple hours to let any moisture evaporate.

You should certainly clean the chain and lube it.

If your hubs have sealed cartridge bearings, they are fine; if they are cup & cone bearings, I would probably open 'em up for a cleaning and fresh grease, but you could wait to see if they develop any roughness.

I wouldn't worry about the bottom bracket bearings - they are probably fine. If not, you'll figure it out when they show problems.
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Old 08-05-20, 11:19 AM
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You really should have picked the bike up and carried it across the deep parts.

Everything that moves and was underwater should be cleaned, dried, and re-lubed. (Except you might get by just rinsing the spokes and rims, and maybe dribbling a bit of oil on the spoke/nipple interfaces.) Chain (just clean with mineral spirits and re-lube), bottom bracket, hubs, derailer pivots, brake pivots, cables, probably up the the lower headset races. This would be a good time to hit the inside of the frame with Frame Saver or equivalent, if you've got a steel frame, after you've dried it and while it's all opened up.
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Old 08-05-20, 12:53 PM
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TL;DR -- Overhaul time

Silty water got everywhere - everything is gritty feeling. Everything seems to have a few drips of water in it - so I've taken it down as far as I can get everything (though I did leave the front fork attached since its open at the top and bottom.

What a mess... You know what the worst part is? I just checked the map, the detour wasn't 7miles... it was barely 3mi... what a dumb decision that quickly got worse and worse!

Thanks for the advice folks! I think I've learned my lesson with giant puddles that are 10s of meters long! ::blushes::

Originally Posted by pdlamb
You really should have picked the bike up and carried it across the deep parts.

Everything that moves and was underwater should be cleaned, dried, and re-lubed. (Except you might get by just rinsing the spokes and rims, and maybe dribbling a bit of oil on the spoke/nipple interfaces.) Chain (just clean with mineral spirits and re-lube), bottom bracket, hubs, derailer pivots, brake pivots, cables, probably up the the lower headset races. This would be a good time to hit the inside of the frame with Frame Saver or equivalent, if you've got a steel frame, after you've dried it and while it's all opened up.
I definitely should have picked it up! It was maybe 6 inches deep for a while and then suddenly dipped down and it just got worse from there... wish I had slammed the brakes on as soon as I felt the front wheel dip!

Yup - steel frame - I'll need to order in some framesaver though. I suspect wd40 might serve a similar purpose but I won't do anything just now though.

Glad you mentioned the spoke/nipples, I nearly forgot them ::blushes:: - I was too busy worrying about everything else - but sure enough there's water that's leaked into the little wells where the nipples go - tyre's off and giving it a dry out just now.

Originally Posted by Koyote
I'll be a bit of a contrarian here.

You should pull out the seatpost and turn the bike upside down, in case there is water in the frame. Even if nothing comes out, I would leave it in a sunny area (w/out seatpost) for a couple hours to let any moisture evaporate.

You should certainly clean the chain and lube it.

If your hubs have sealed cartridge bearings, they are fine; if they are cup & cone bearings, I would probably open 'em up for a cleaning and fresh grease, but you could wait to see if they develop any roughness.

I wouldn't worry about the bottom bracket bearings - they are probably fine. If not, you'll figure it out when they show problems.
"Even if nothing comes out" they said! It was at least half-filled with kinda-gross water... but now its on my kitchen floor!

I'm glad you mentioned that! I couldn't even tell, even with the seatpost out. Yup - cup and cone... its very tempting to leave the hubs and cross my fingers that there wasn't water ingress - it was repacked a week ago, and I always over-grease to try and keep water out... but, I dunno... I can't feel any grittiness and it seems to spin freely... buuut...... I'll leave it for now. Any problems on the test-cycle and it'll be an instant-stop.

Originally Posted by GlennR
I would disassemble it and give it a good wash and clean. Just be glad it wasn't salt water.
Oh, that'd have been nasty - I'd need to give it another bath when it got home!

Last edited by cprobertson1; 08-05-20 at 01:05 PM.
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Old 08-06-20, 01:02 AM
  #8  
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Rule-of-thumb for other cyclists daft enough to do what I did; water ingress will occur everywhere the water touches; there is no escape.

Don't waste time - get it all out... and maybe don't trust flooded paths in future...

Don't try to be lazy - give it a deep, deep clean. If it was underwater, it will have water in it... period.
This is especially true of deeper water as the pressure can easily force it through the smallest openings - especially around the bearings where the motion of the axle will emulsify the grease into a much thinner, milk-like substance.

Heres a list of places where I found water:
  • EVERYWHERE

Oh well... lesson(s) learned....

Last edited by cprobertson1; 08-07-20 at 04:23 AM.
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Old 08-19-20, 01:48 AM
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Originally Posted by GlennR
I would disassemble it and give it a good wash and clean. Just be glad it wasn't salt water.
Mmmkay. Here's one for ya.

Today, through a series of unfortunate events, I lost two cruiser bikes over the edge of a dock. Into the ocean. 4m deep. We are going back tomorrow with diving gear to pull them up. We (my BF and I) know that there's going to be a lot of maintenance required to salvage them back to rideable condition. They both have internal hubs, so we're just planning to take to LBS for help on that. But due to the pandemic we won't likely get a repair appointment for some time... what can we do as soon as the bikes get on dry land to minimize the salt water damage?

I'm not allowed to post links, but the Bikes are a BK Driggs 3 speed and a Regal Bikes 3 speed.
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Old 08-19-20, 05:16 AM
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Originally Posted by archicarla
Mmmkay. Here's one for ya.

Today, through a series of unfortunate events, I lost two cruiser bikes over the edge of a dock. Into the ocean. 4m deep. We are going back tomorrow with diving gear to pull them up. We (my BF and I) know that there's going to be a lot of maintenance required to salvage them back to rideable condition. They both have internal hubs, so we're just planning to take to LBS for help on that. But due to the pandemic we won't likely get a repair appointment for some time... what can we do as soon as the bikes get on dry land to minimize the salt water damage?

I'm not allowed to post links, but the Bikes are a BK Driggs 3 speed and a Regal Bikes 3 speed.
Kind of an unusual situation, so I could be wrong about this. But I think your best course of action might be to retrieve the bikes from underwater, take them to a salvage yard for scrap metal, and buy new bikes.
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Old 08-19-20, 06:41 AM
  #11  
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Originally Posted by archicarla
Mmmkay. Here's one for ya.

Today, through a series of unfortunate events, I lost two cruiser bikes over the edge of a dock. Into the ocean. 4m deep. We are going back tomorrow with diving gear to pull them up. We (my BF and I) know that there's going to be a lot of maintenance required to salvage them back to rideable condition. They both have internal hubs, so we're just planning to take to LBS for help on that. But due to the pandemic we won't likely get a repair appointment for some time... what can we do as soon as the bikes get on dry land to minimize the salt water damage?

I'm not allowed to post links, but the Bikes are a BK Driggs 3 speed and a Regal Bikes 3 speed.
4m isn't too bad pressure wise - galvanic corrosion will have started but oxidative corrosion will be slowed UNTIL you bring it to the surface due to the low oxygen environment.

As soon as it's on the surface, start washing - if you can get a hose of fresh water, great, if not, wash as best as you can with some bottles of water and a bucket, and get it dissassembled and washed as soon as possible.

Depending on the materials of your gear hubs, they could fall anywhere between instant-write-off if they're made of similar steel alloys, or they could be fine if they are made of brass and steel, and have a ton of grease in there.

Basically, everything must come apart and get rinsed as soon as possible after getting it to the surface, and I suspect your hubs may need replacing but you might get lucky since it's not a terribly high pressure at 4m and water can't hold a lot of oxygen. Fingers crossed!

Anyway, the goal of the game is to rinse and then dry it ASAP after getting it to the surface - every minute wasted is a minute it's oxidising!
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Old 08-19-20, 07:05 AM
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Get the bikes out of the water and spray down with a garden hose for 30 minutes or more. If you are able, remove the hub spindles, crank, headset, seatpost and chain. Spray down bikes again spray into the frame then follow with about one can of WD40 on each bike, spray the whole friggin bike, crank, hubs, headset, chain, bearings, inside the seat tube, down tube, crank case, everything. Then pray and take to the bike shop. I used to live on the coast in South Carolina years ago. Salt gets into everything and it tends to be like a malignant cancer spreading everywhere no matter what one does.

The key here is spray down thoroughly with water and follow-up with WD40. This is precisely what WD40 is used for, it disperses moisture, it's not really a lubricant. Drastic, yes, but it may just save your bikes.


-

Last edited by drlogik; 08-19-20 at 07:08 AM.
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Old 08-19-20, 07:32 AM
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I think some consideration should be given to the probability that ameliorative treatment will be successful. If the OP and her bf are capable mechanics, and have the time, they can do some of the work themselves...But it seems more likely that they will have to take these bikes to a shop, and they won't even be able to do that for a while - and in the meantime, rust never sleeps. These bikes are decent, but not super-pricey; I would hate to see them spend a bunch of money trying to save them, only to find out that they are not salvageable. I mean, at minimum, they will have to have the following overhauled: hubs (and the igh will be a big question mark - if that's ruined, the cost equation becomes very depressing), headset, bottom bracket, pedals (might as well just replace). If corrosion starts in the shifters, that's another expense.

But if they're gonna try to save the bikes, then "yes" to the above posts: rinse immediately and thoroughly, drain the frame by turning it upside down, spray wd40 everywhere (wd = water displacer), tear into any part with bearings (hubs, bb, headset, pedals) ASAP to clean and regrease. OP. if you're not into bike wrenching, you might want to try to find a shop that will take the bike immediately to do some of those things - some shop may appreciate the challenge, but I'll bet none will promise good results.
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Old 08-19-20, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by cprobertson1
Anyway, the goal of the game is to rinse and then dry it ASAP after getting it to the surface - every minute wasted is a minute it's oxidising!
cprobertson - thank you for this encouragement! We have a hose handy and will start hosing and drying immediately. Super helpful - much appreciated!

Koyote & drlogik - thanks for your input also! I think we are going in with eyes open about how much work might be required to salvage them. We'll get our WD40 at the ready!

Last edited by archicarla; 08-19-20 at 09:17 AM. Reason: adding
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Old 08-19-20, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by archicarla
cprobertson - thank you for this encouragement! We have a hose handy and will start hosing and drying immediately. Super helpful - much appreciated!

Koyote & drlogik - thanks for your input also! I think we are going in with eyes open about how much work might be required to salvage them. We'll get our WD40 at the ready!
Excellent shout on the WD40! Better buy a big can

After that, mayhaps you might tell us how you came to arrive in such a curious predicament?!?
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Old 08-20-20, 11:00 AM
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Updates!
- Diving / hauling out mission was a great success. No dramas. One diver (me) and two guys up top on the other end of the line.
- rinsed thoroughly on the dock with fresh water everywhere.
- Got them home and took headsets and seat posts off and let all the water drip out / evaporate there. True to cproberton1's original post, water was *everywhere* including kickstand, handlebars, inside the rims, you name it! Washed everything with a cloth / soap & water
- We have befallen the age-old trap of some people saying WD40 everything and some people saying "sacrilege!!!" so we ended up hedging our bets and using some WD40 sparingly in some areas...
- My bike chain started to rust really quickly, so I WD40d it, then put chain lube on it. BF's chain seemed fine after rinsing so just soap & water & lube.
- BF took his out for a ride and said "if I didn't know this bike was a the bottom of the ocean 4 hours ago, I absolutely wouldn't notice anything wrong." Internal hub worked fine, brakes worked fine.
- LBS will take a look at the hubs and brake cables/pads etc today and let us know what else they think we need to do!

I think the short time in the water, being submerged and not in/out of the water repeatedly, and relatively shallow depth/low pressure has been kind to these bikes. They seem totally fine, for the price of $55 scuba gear rental and TBD bike shop fees.

How this happened... started with a bad idea that the 'safest' spot to park our bikes at the marina would be *not* at the bike rack near the gated entry ramp (too visible to thieves, he said!), but rather at the very end of the ~5' wide dock finger where our sailboat is moored. We returned to the dock after a day out, BF stepped off the boat onto the dock to tie on the lines, the dock pitched just a little too much for my kickstand angle, and like dominoes they both fell very (very) quickly straight over the side. So, in other words, a completely avoidable situation that was no one's fault but our own! Yayyyyyy....
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Old 08-20-20, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by washed up
perfect excuse to buy a new bike.
+1
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Old 08-24-20, 02:24 AM
  #18  
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Originally Posted by archicarla
Updates!
- Diving / hauling out mission was a great success. No dramas. One diver (me) and two guys up top on the other end of the line.
- rinsed thoroughly on the dock with fresh water everywhere.
- Got them home and took headsets and seat posts off and let all the water drip out / evaporate there. True to cproberton1's original post, water was *everywhere* including kickstand, handlebars, inside the rims, you name it! Washed everything with a cloth / soap & water
- We have befallen the age-old trap of some people saying WD40 everything and some people saying "sacrilege!!!" so we ended up hedging our bets and using some WD40 sparingly in some areas...
- My bike chain started to rust really quickly, so I WD40d it, then put chain lube on it. BF's chain seemed fine after rinsing so just soap & water & lube.
- BF took his out for a ride and said "if I didn't know this bike was a the bottom of the ocean 4 hours ago, I absolutely wouldn't notice anything wrong." Internal hub worked fine, brakes worked fine.
- LBS will take a look at the hubs and brake cables/pads etc today and let us know what else they think we need to do!

I think the short time in the water, being submerged and not in/out of the water repeatedly, and relatively shallow depth/low pressure has been kind to these bikes. They seem totally fine, for the price of $55 scuba gear rental and TBD bike shop fees.

How this happened... started with a bad idea that the 'safest' spot to park our bikes at the marina would be *not* at the bike rack near the gated entry ramp (too visible to thieves, he said!), but rather at the very end of the ~5' wide dock finger where our sailboat is moored. We returned to the dock after a day out, BF stepped off the boat onto the dock to tie on the lines, the dock pitched just a little too much for my kickstand angle, and like dominoes they both fell very (very) quickly straight over the side. So, in other words, a completely avoidable situation that was no one's fault but our own! Yayyyyyy....
Man, just thinking of those bikes toppling off the pier is giving me the heebie-jeebies! ::shudders::

I actually suspect you could have left them down there a few days longer without much further degradation (though I'm glad you didn't!) - the most important part of the rescue was getting all the conductive salt water off it as soon as you brought it back up to the high-oxygen atmosphere of our breathable world - so, good job on the rescue! Mind let us know how the repair costs turn out! xD
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Old 08-24-20, 05:51 AM
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archicarla , I'm glad to learn that I was wrong -- that it is going well so far. If those internally-geared hubs are alright, then it is probably going to be alright.

Did you rinse out the inside of the frame with fresh water, too? If not, do it. I would stick a hose right into every opening on that frame and thoroughly slosh the water around before draining.

I think you'll definitely want the shop to overhaul your hubs: if they have sealed bearings, this is simple and will mostly involve cleaning things out. If they have cup & cone bearings, you'll pay about $25 per wheel, but you definitely want that. Rust in your hubs will kill the wheels. Ditto for the headsets.

Keep us posted!
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Old 08-25-20, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Koyote
Did you rinse out the inside of the frame with fresh water, too? If not, do it. I would stick a hose right into every opening on that frame and thoroughly slosh the water around before draining.
Answer - we probably did not do this... do you think it is still worthwhile at this point, after a week out of the water?

We have sealed bearings on both bikes. the shop inspected and made a minor repair to one of them from the sounds of things, but said they were otherwise fine. We took out the headsets and cleaned / dried them out ourselves.

It cost us $200 CAD in shop fees which was basically their full tune-up charge. They said everything was looking good! I'm sure we'll see early degradation of a few things, but time will tell.
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Old 08-25-20, 12:50 PM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by archicarla
Answer - we probably did not do this... do you think it is still worthwhile at this point, after a week out of the water?

We have sealed bearings on both bikes. the shop inspected and made a minor repair to one of them from the sounds of things, but said they were otherwise fine. We took out the headsets and cleaned / dried them out ourselves.

It cost us $200 CAD in shop fees which was basically their full tune-up charge. They said everything was looking good! I'm sure we'll see early degradation of a few things, but time will tell.
I reckon it's worth it as there will likely be salt crystals left in there that will redissolve over time, even from condensation on a cold day. Quick hose-out with water and then a wash with some WD40 or any other surface anti-corrosion treatment 🙂
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Old 08-25-20, 01:11 PM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by archicarla
Updates!
- Diving / hauling out mission was a great success. No dramas. One diver (me) and two guys up top on the other end of the line.
- rinsed thoroughly on the dock with fresh water everywhere.
- Got them home and took headsets and seat posts off and let all the water drip out / evaporate there. True to cproberton1's original post, water was *everywhere* including kickstand, handlebars, inside the rims, you name it! Washed everything with a cloth / soap & water
- We have befallen the age-old trap of some people saying WD40 everything and some people saying "sacrilege!!!" so we ended up hedging our bets and using some WD40 sparingly in some areas...
- My bike chain started to rust really quickly, so I WD40d it, then put chain lube on it. BF's chain seemed fine after rinsing so just soap & water & lube.
- BF took his out for a ride and said "if I didn't know this bike was a the bottom of the ocean 4 hours ago, I absolutely wouldn't notice anything wrong." Internal hub worked fine, brakes worked fine.
- LBS will take a look at the hubs and brake cables/pads etc today and let us know what else they think we need to do!

I think the short time in the water, being submerged and not in/out of the water repeatedly, and relatively shallow depth/low pressure has been kind to these bikes. They seem totally fine, for the price of $55 scuba gear rental and TBD bike shop fees.

How this happened... started with a bad idea that the 'safest' spot to park our bikes at the marina would be *not* at the bike rack near the gated entry ramp (too visible to thieves, he said!), but rather at the very end of the ~5' wide dock finger where our sailboat is moored. We returned to the dock after a day out, BF stepped off the boat onto the dock to tie on the lines, the dock pitched just a little too much for my kickstand angle, and like dominoes they both fell very (very) quickly straight over the side. So, in other words, a completely avoidable situation that was no one's fault but our own! Yayyyyyy....
WD-40 was developed to displace water in military development tests.
WD-40 stands for Water Displacement, 40th formula. That's the name straight out of the lab book used by the chemist who developed the product. The first company to use WD-40 Multi-Use Product commercially was Convair, an aerospace contractor, to protect the outer skin of the Atlas Missile from rust and corrosion.
Use the stuff heavily, not sparingly. It is not a lubricant as others have also mentioned. But it is perfect for your application.

BTW, I had a feeling marinas, boats and docks were involved. Fair winds.
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Old 08-25-20, 01:38 PM
  #23  
Koyote
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Originally Posted by archicarla
Answer - we probably did not do this... do you think it is still worthwhile at this point, after a week out of the water?

We have sealed bearings on both bikes. the shop inspected and made a minor repair to one of them from the sounds of things, but said they were otherwise fine. We took out the headsets and cleaned / dried them out ourselves.

It cost us $200 CAD in shop fees which was basically their full tune-up charge. They said everything was looking good! I'm sure we'll see early degradation of a few things, but time will tell.
Hmm. If your bottom brackets and headsets are now back in the bikes, it’ll be a bit more of a hassle to rinse out the insides of the frames. And I would be most worried about corrosion in the bottom bracket, headset, and wheel hubs – which you’ve already taken care of. So this one is a tossup. Others might have better opinions though.
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Old 08-26-20, 01:31 AM
  #24  
cprobertson1
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Originally Posted by genec
WD-40 was developed to displace water in military development tests.

Use the stuff heavily, not sparingly. It is not a lubricant as others have also mentioned. But it is perfect for your application.

BTW, I had a feeling marinas, boats and docks were involved. Fair winds.
I actually almost gave a history of WD40 and its predecessors and their use at the Atlas missile sites (I'm a big rocket nerd) and how tins of the stuff kept "dissapearing" home with the technicians.

For those curious, its mixture of hydrocarbons designed to spread out over a wide surface (which is why it also penetrates into cracks and small spaces) and then the lighter hydrocarbons evaporate off, leaving a protective, greasy-feeling film. Unlike a dediated lubricant though, the film is made of short chains of hydrocarbons which make it a poor lubricant - the film is too thin, and the hydrocarbon chains too short, so if you use it as a lubricant, it just breaks down and stops lubricating, and then cements together with metal particles to form an abrasive paste. Yum!

Being a mixture of hydrocarbons it is an organic, nonpolar solvent (which is why it doesn't mix well with water, a polar solvent), which means it can displace and dissolve grease, at the same time as repelling water. I use it as the first-wash degreaser on my chain (then I use a water-based cirtrus degreaser to get the WD40 off and give it a deeper degreasing, and then finally it's good for oiling). It does have the capacity to attack some paints, but it was designed with that in mind and most cured paints are resistant to it. The stencilled markings on the Atlas, for instance, wouldn't dissolve when you gave it a spray-down. You should still do a test in an unobtrusive place high on the frame to make sure though!



Back to rinsing the tubes/frame! I'm inclined to agree with @Koyote - I shall revise my recommendation; as they said, you should already have rinsed all the important bits!

If we run through all the tubes, we see that we have open tubes and closed, or mostly-closed tubes.

The open tubes (front tube, seatpost, bottom bracket) have the most exposure to air and the elements, so they're the worst spots for potential corrosion, but those are also the bits you've cleaned

The mostly-closed tubes (top tube, downtube, seatstay, chainstay), in an ideal world, would be entirely sealed. In our less-than-ideal world, between voids in the welding, bolt holes, vents, and internal cable routing, you;ve almost certainly had water in it, but you would have a hard time rinsing it out unless you were very patient and had a very small tube to inject water into it - and then you have to get all that injected water back out!

My revised advise would be to squirt WD40 in wherever you can and give it a swish around - which you can do without dissassembling the bike (I do this every 6-12 months as I'm out in the rain a lot and theres a lot of condensation in the cold weather)

What I do is stand to the side of the bike, squirt an excess of WD40 into the tube-of-interest, rotate the bike lengthwise until the tube-of-interest is horizontal, lift the bike off the ground, and finally pump my arms back and forward in a circle to swish it round the internal surface of the tube, and finally finish swishing it in a figure-of-eight motion to get the ends.

Any excess WD40 will evaporate over time, so that's nothing to worry about; the only thing to worry about is that you should definitely do this outside, as the WD40 will drip everywhere. It's also worth giving the outside a quick wipe with a cloth to pick up the excess too - it'll make it less greasy to the touch as well.

Thanks for setting me straight, @Koyote - much appreciated
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Old 08-26-20, 11:18 AM
  #25  
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Wow, this is awesome. Thanks so much for all the great advice!! We'll try the WD-40 swish trick for sure, and regularly going forward!
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