torony

Hi there,

I own a hybrid bike (GIant Escape 1) which i use for fitness rides. Its been 2 years that im using the standard pedals (without facing any knee pains/discomfort) and recently replaced them with Shimano PD-M520 clipless pedals along with Shimano SH51 cleats.
Did some research/watched many videos prior installing the cleats yet it did not go well, since normally (when walking, running...) my legs are facing outward (heel in, toes out, the right leg is significantly more open than the left one). I went to a local bike shop where the guy tried many cleat positions with no success for both legs. I feel a discomfort localized at the inner side of the knee and it lasts for the whole ride. Post the ride, i have the feeling in that area as if there is a bag of water with no pain. This feeling disappear after 1 day of rest.
When changing the cleats position, the discomfort area was moving from in to outside of my knee and sometimes in the middle (this is the only place where i feel the same pain as if im grinding the knee when putting high effort without being able to turn the pedal).
Having all that said, and bearing in mind that I do not have other fitter/bike shop options, is there anything i can do, with the current pedals/cleats set to get rid of this issue, because i think that it will eventually harm my knees.
On a side note, the guy advised to keep riding on this setup saying that we tried almost all the cleat positions, and the legs will adapt to that feeling. I kinda dont trust his judgment and im afraid to hurt my knees, and this is why im seeking for your advice, especially if i should continue or stop riding with clipless pedals till the cleat issue is fixed, thus the discomfort is gone.

Thank you

BoraxKid

It sounds like you probably need help adjusting more than just your cleats. Back of the knee pain can mean that your saddle is too high, front of the knee can mean it's too low, and pain on the side of your knee might mean your knee and ankle are not staying aligned through your pedal stroke. To nail down your exact issue, you probably need to read more and apply the knowledge to your case. This website has a wealth of information to help you:

https://bikedynamics.co.uk/

Check out their "aches and pains" page for some likely causes of your issues. Maybe you did not account for the change in your foot's vertical position on the new pedals? I would start by lowering your saddle by 0.5-1.0 cm and see how that affects things.

79pmooney

Listen to your knees!

I"d try riding with the old pedals. Come to a stop without changing your foot angle. Now measure to the crank at the ball of your foot and back at the heel. See if you can adjust the cleats on your new shoes to give you the same back and forth position and same foot angle at the center or "neutral" position of the float. If you cannot. I suggest jumping through hoops until you find a way so that you can.

My feet are (apparently) quite different from yours. I need forced toe-in to keep my knees happy. (They do not like platform pedals.) I ride pedals where you can lock out the float and I set the toe-in of the cleat; a little for the left foot and a lot for the right. On the right cleat, I max the toe-in regularly, On some cleats I have to file to get more.

Don't follow what I did! Listen to your knees and pursue what works. A good setup for your knees won't take any "getting used to". I might even suggest bring your old pedals, wrench and shoes if you are setting out on a longer ride with an unproven setup so you can bail out.

The new 3rd party knees may now be better than the OEMs. but they are expensive and installation is a drag. I'm doing my best to get a (my) lifetime out of these OEMs.

Ben

Ironfish653

Everybody’s physiology is a little different, and what works for most, may not work for some. Also, some people aren’t bothered by little changes, and for some, it causes great discomfort.

SPDs are a really good ‘works for most’ but in my experience, 2-bolt SPD and LOOK-style cleats work best with a neutral foot, or slightly toe-in. There’s also a lot of factors that can affect the alignment of the whole leg-foot-pedal system, like seat height, fore-and-aft adjustment, bar height and reach, as well as cleat-to-shoe and foot-to-shoe fit that there’s really no ‘silver bullet’ to the issue.

As as far as hardware fixes, the OP could try one of the high-float pedal systems like Speedplay or CrankBros, those are popular with riders who have sensitive knees.

You could also also try a set of pedal extenders, to move the pedals farther out from the crank arms, it might bring things into a more natural alignment, or at least put the pedals where your feet are expecting them.

shelbyfv

I don't think it's a good idea to try to correct a physical deformity by forcing the feet into an uncomfortable position. Your foot geometry is what it is, you won't correct it short of surgery or maybe professional therapy. Not everyone needs clipless and your riding won't improve if you blow out a knee.

philbob57

The nice thing about 'standard' pedals is that you can move your foot around to find a (relatively) pain-free orientation. You're foot placement is much more limited with clips.

I think riding flat, quill, or rat trap pedals would be a disadvantage if you were racing, but if you're not, I recommend going back to your old pedals.

I imagine you can retrain your knees from toe-out to toe-in, but I would retire (or return) the SPD pedals until after my knees are retrained.

70sSanO

I have no doubt that clipless pedals are more efficient for riders who exploit the benefits.

I used to ride toe clips, straps, and cleats. You were really locked in. If I purposefully tried different pedal techniques (circles, pull up, heel down) I could go faster. Problem was I really didn’t want to change how I normally pedaled. I never raced and I rode fast enough for me. I now ride the same setup but with rigid touring shoes and no cleats. Platforms on my mountain bikes.

Something motivated you to make a pedal change after 2 years riding your hybrid. But, as others have said, your knees are more important.

If it was to be more efficient (faster) I think a drop bar bike, riding in the drops, will be faster with any type of pedal than an upright bike.

John

Pop N Wood

I suffer from "external tibial torsion with out towing". In other words duck feet, but in my case only my right foot points out about 25° from normal.

The only way I can ride is with cleats that lock my feel into a good position. If I ride flats my knees scream. If I mount the cleats so my feet are both straight forward or God forbid toe inward my outer knees scream. The only thing that works for me is mounting the cleat as far to the inside of the shoe as possible than angling my right foot so it is somewhere between straight forward and toed out to where it wants to be. Can't angle any farther out or I suffer heal strike on the cranks.

Since you have issues in your inner knees perhaps you want more toe in? Maybe move the cleat to the outside of the shoe?