Why are road and TT bikes so expensive?
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Sure, but I don't understand why the comparison with not buying something entered this branch of the discussion. What I originally responded to was a comparison in relative affordability between two options in which something was purchased:
This is all that I was ever responding to.
This is all that I was ever responding to.
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Trek Emonda SLR9 - $11,999 https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/b...e=bluedark_red
Honda CRF450R - $9,599 https://powersports.honda.com/off-ro...tition/crf450r
Some bikes are way overpriced. There is no way the cost of R&D plus manufacturing of a bicycle is more than a state of the art motocross bike.
Honda CRF450R - $9,599 https://powersports.honda.com/off-ro...tition/crf450r
Some bikes are way overpriced. There is no way the cost of R&D plus manufacturing of a bicycle is more than a state of the art motocross bike.
So no, the Emonda SLR9 is not overpriced, it is priced consistently with any high-performance product in its category.
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Sure, okay, as long as we acknowledge that this is far, far from BoraxKid 's scenario in which a person finances a purchase because he doesn't have the cash -- can we agree that does not make the purchase "more affordable"?
Once again, you put words in my mouth by asserting that I claimed financing made things cheaper, when I never actually said so. But hey, nice strawman.
#29
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Using that logic... no one who ever buys a new car (unless the pay the whole thing off in one cash payment) can afford a car.
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Except that financing is the very instrument that makes an item affordable when a person does not have enough cash on hand to buy it immediately. Again, if I cannot buy something today due to having insufficient funds, then it is not affordable: I literally cannot afford to make the purchase. However, if financing, allows me to make the purchase today, then financing made that item affordable: I was able to afford the purchase only through financing.
Once again, you put words in my mouth by asserting that I claimed financing made things cheaper, when I never actually said so. But hey, nice strawman.
Once again, you put words in my mouth by asserting that I claimed financing made things cheaper, when I never actually said so. But hey, nice strawman.
Cars often get people to their jobs, which pay money. There's a big difference between borrowing money for car and borrowing money to buy a TT bike.
#31
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Yes but that's not the point. The original assertion was that if one has to take out a loan to make the purchase then the purchase is not really affordable. Doesn't matter why one is taking out the loan - if one cannot pay cash then one cannot afford it. Also, consider how much extra money a year people pay to maintain and insure their cars, not to mention fuel. That's even less affordable.
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Yes but that's not the point. The original assertion was that if one has to take out a loan to make the purchase then the purchase is not really affordable. Doesn't matter why one is taking out the loan - if one cannot pay cash then one cannot afford it. Also, consider how much extra money a year people pay to maintain and insure their cars, not to mention fuel. That's even less affordable.
I added the emphasis so that you wouldn't miss it this time.
#33
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Except that financing is the very instrument that makes an item affordable when a person does not have enough cash on hand to buy it immediately. Again, if I cannot buy something today due to having insufficient funds, then it is not affordable: I literally cannot afford to make the purchase. However, if financing, allows me to make the purchase today, then financing made that item affordable: I was able to afford the purchase only through financing.
Once again, you put words in my mouth by asserting that I claimed financing made things cheaper, when I never actually said so. But hey, nice strawman.
Once again, you put words in my mouth by asserting that I claimed financing made things cheaper, when I never actually said so. But hey, nice strawman.
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I tried, but I couldn't make it halfway through the video. Honestly, if your perspective is that $3000 is a low-end bike, and you have so many expensive bikes that you're using an expensive TT bike as a trainer, the whole exercise seems like a chance for you to brag about the cost of your toys.
This is quickly going to degenerate into one of those "what's the right amount to spend on a bike" threads, AKA "snob vs. slob".
This is quickly going to degenerate into one of those "what's the right amount to spend on a bike" threads, AKA "snob vs. slob".
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Y'all realize you're just arguing about the definition of the word "affordable" , right?
That people can acquire more expensive goods immediately if they can amortize the costs is not exactly a controversial point. The advantage is that you can use the item while you're paying for it. It's the basic principle behind mortgages and car loans. Obviously, a bike loan is more like a car loan than a mortgage as there's virtually a certainty that the value of the item will depreciate while you are paying for it, so no one is under the delusion that financing a bike is going to increase their wealth.
Pointless thread begets pointless argument.
That people can acquire more expensive goods immediately if they can amortize the costs is not exactly a controversial point. The advantage is that you can use the item while you're paying for it. It's the basic principle behind mortgages and car loans. Obviously, a bike loan is more like a car loan than a mortgage as there's virtually a certainty that the value of the item will depreciate while you are paying for it, so no one is under the delusion that financing a bike is going to increase their wealth.
Pointless thread begets pointless argument.
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Pretty sure that was their point.
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A race bike in any era is a highly personal choice that at its "best" balances the requirements of fit, weight, handling, durability and cost tempered by the willingness to toss it and oneself down the pavement at considerable speed. ~Bandera
A race bike in any era is a highly personal choice that at its "best" balances the requirements of fit, weight, handling, durability and cost tempered by the willingness to toss it and oneself down the pavement at considerable speed. ~Bandera
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#37
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If someone doesn't have the cash to buy a big-ticket item today, but they can buy it with financing today, then the item was made affordable because of financing.
Even if you have cash in hand to buy something now, you'll nearly always end up richer in the long run if you dump the money into reasonably-safe investments and then pay the cost of the item later.
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Haha, you're probably right, it might appear that way. I ride with many people who have $8,000+ bikes, so my 'lowly' $3,000 bike, is near the bottom end. Additionally, when I go the triathlons and scope out the other bikes, I feel like everyone is riding a $10,000+ bike, which mine is no where near that. So, I didn't think I had anything to brag with, but thanks for making me feel better about my toys.
That's a good example of why the video is so pointless, it doesn't seem to be aimed at any particular audience. If you consider $3000 bikes "low end", you already know the info in it, and if you consider them expensive, it's likely because you don't care about the marginal improvements you might realize by spending more than $3000, so you really won't care about what he's saying.
Once he said he wasn't going to talk about the cost of his tt bike, it became obvious that he was just bragging about the costs of his second and third bikes.
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No, that's not how affording something works. To afford something, you must be able to purchase it. In the absence of financing, if I do not have enough cash to purchase an item, then I literally cannot afford that item; I am unable to purchase it. However, with financing, I can purchase the item; ergo, financing makes the item affordable by lowering the price I need to pay at the time of purchase. The item was always available for purchase, but my ability to purchase--literally my ability to afford it--changes based on the availability of financing.
Where Koyote is getting wrapped around the axle on this topic is in regards to financing a bicycle. I never said that anyone needs financing to buy a bike, but that didn't stop Koyote from falsely attributing those words to me. Regardless, it does not change the fact that financing, for any item, makes the item more affordable because financing lowers the barrier to entry for the purchase--it reduces the out-of-pocket expense on the day of purchase, for the minor premium of paying a small amount of interest later.
Where Koyote is getting wrapped around the axle on this topic is in regards to financing a bicycle. I never said that anyone needs financing to buy a bike, but that didn't stop Koyote from falsely attributing those words to me. Regardless, it does not change the fact that financing, for any item, makes the item more affordable because financing lowers the barrier to entry for the purchase--it reduces the out-of-pocket expense on the day of purchase, for the minor premium of paying a small amount of interest later.
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No, that's not how affording something works. To afford something, you must be able to purchase it. In the absence of financing, if I do not have enough cash to purchase an item, then I literally cannot afford that item; I am unable to purchase it. However, with financing, I can purchase the item; ergo, financing makes the item affordable by lowering the price I need to pay at the time of purchase. The item was always available for purchase, but my ability to purchase--literally my ability to afford it--changes based on the availability of financing.
#45
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No, that's not how affording something works. To afford something, you must be able to purchase it. In the absence of financing, if I do not have enough cash to purchase an item, then I literally cannot afford that item; I am unable to purchase it. However, with financing, I can purchase the item; ergo, financing makes the item affordable by lowering the price I need to pay at the time of purchase. The item was always available for purchase, but my ability to purchase--literally my ability to afford it--changes based on the availability of financing.
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Again, this is just an argument about the word "affordable". Guess what? Words can have more than one meaning, and you two are using the word slightly differently. Big whoop.
Just to muddy the waters more, "afford" has two entirely distinct definitions. Just to use the other one, if I can acquire the bike now, I can now afford myself of its virtues. If I have to defer the purchase until I can make payment in full, I may be delayed in affording myself of its virtues and may not be able to acquire it until I'm too old to fully make use of those virtues.
Much as I love the blatant oversimplification of microecon 101 concepts, ignoring that the availability of financing can reorder people's priorities by spreading out the opportunity costs so they don't impinge on necessities and also ignoring time without use as a cost in and of itself are some real howlers.
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