JWK

I'm putting this in the general discussion because it has to do with touring as much as gravel riding, as much as just riding around unloaded. So here it is.

For reference, I've ridden a Surly DT since 2013 as my only bike until a couple of years ago when I found a used Trek 920. I've been riding both for the past two seasons. I would like to replace both, with the motive being to try to get the best of both for my purposes and enjoyment. The trucker doesn't take fat enough tires with fenders, but I do prefer the ride compared to the 920. I dislike the whole 920 build. I wish I had just bought a frameset. I don't like the drivetrain, I don't like the handlebars, I don't like the brakes, I don't like the wheels.

I found a Kona Sutra SE from 2022 in a bike shop and was offered a very good discount from the manager. The Piolet frameset is on sale for a very good price of $725 right now through Mon 11th (tomorrow). These are both touring and bikepacking bikes, but the approach is significantly different. The Piolet has low trail for this type of bike, with a long touring back end (460mm chainstays). The Sutra is the inverse. Trail on the high side with a shortish back end for touring (445mm chainstays). I rode a Sutra a few years ago for a day with a friend that rode a his mtb and loaned me his Sutra. I liked the ride OK, but I wasn't really riding with a critical mind, and we only ended up biking about 25 miles. We were goofing around the Salem-Marblehead area of Mass.

Money is not the issue here. Both bikes are on the lower end of the price scale. I have a lot of stuff for a frameset to begin with and I have put bikes together before and do my own wrenching.

The Kona with a 47mm - 50mm 650b tire will have a trail in the mid 60s. The Piolet with the same will have a trail in the mid 40s. I have no idea what this would mean for me. I have not ridden a bike with anything lower than a trail of 60 in decades. Both bikes have a BB drop of 70mm. I would be using drop bars, so I'm a little concerned about the short stem I will need for the Piolet along with the low trail.

Anyone here have Piolet experience? The members that have them, or had them have not been active in a long time. I would like to know if the Piolet is heavier and/or stiffer than the Sutra. If anyone has a Piolet or has had one, I would appreciate hearing your take on how it rides in general, unloaded and loaded, what you liked and disliked, if you were able to compare it to other similar bikes, etc.

Thanks for any info.

MattoftheRocks

Sorry, no Piolet info beyond YouTube reviews you’ve probably already seen (PathLessPedaled), just a question: is the Trucker stuck with the same tire width if you go 650b?

I’m a sensitive pansy. A Sutra was among a handful of dirt tourer bikes I tested with & without cargo just before covid and the whole experience made me conclude that I just like flimsy bikes made for the only cargo being nothing more than a repair kit and some water too much to tolerate a naked dirt tourer when I’m doing plain fun rides. I hate how rigid they are. They seem to loosen up when loaded down with a full load of either camping gear or groceries, if that makes any sense.

It stinks sacrificing a bike with geometry & spring rate that your skeleton just works with to achieve the One-Bike-Only-Garage dream. I’ve tried, but I’ll never live that dream.

JWK

If I could go 650b on the trucker I'd probably keep it. Unfortunately, with its 80mm BB drop, it's just too low. Same with my 920 with a 85mm BB drop. However, the 920 is noticeably lighter and can take much fatter tires with fenders. I still might keep it.

I hear what you're saying about the one bike compromise, but it works OK for me. It also depends on your weight and height. I ride a 58 trucker and weigh 200+ lbs. It's just not as stiff riding as my wife's trucker which is a 48 and my wife is not much over 110. But I definitely do not want something more stiff than my Surly.

JWK

So after 4 days, it's probably safe to assume no one active on the board right now has any experience with the Piolet. Bumping this out of desperate hope and because VO gave me an extension on the sale price since I chatted with them a couple of times in the past week with questions.

Carry on.

mstateglfr 

I dont have either bike and havent even ridden either bike. I just figured I could comment on the geometry concern.

- If you havent ridden anything below 60mm trail in years, then it wouldnt feel odd to ride the Kona.
- Low trail is often cited as being ideal for a front load. At the same time, I have never felt out of control on my Black Mountain Cycles MC when it has a front rack and panniers or when it has a basket and large bag. 72deg HTA, 45mm fork, 38mm tires = 67mm of trail. The front end is predictable and reacts how I want when loaded with gear, even at 67mm of trail.
- 445mm chainstays are not short, even for a bike that will hold a rear rack and bags. I have size 14 shoes and can set up a bike with chainstays of that length without being concerned about foot strike.